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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-18-2020, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Question Emplacements of tats

Hello,

I was wondering if the location of the tats of registration on the doberman, was a standard or if it was some other rule?

I'm still looking around, but is there a list of breeders from Quebec?

Thanks for the help.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 05:31 AM
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As a CKC member for many years, our Code of Practice says: All dogs must be uniquely and permanently identified with an approved Canadian Standard microchip transponder or a tattoo, prior to leaving the breeder’s premises.

It doesn't say where. Normally, tattoos would either be in the ear or on the flank. Cropped Dobermans would normally be on the flank. When we register puppies, we have to say whether it's the right or left flank so obviously, it's our choice (and the registration paper lists the tattoo number followed by RF or LF (right flank or left flank). I assume the same would be true for ear tattoos. I would never have tattooed in the ears because my puppies were cropped, but I've had German shorthaired pointers with ear tattoos.

I took a look at the Doberman Pinscher Club of Canada breeder directory. None of the Quebec breeders have paid for listings there at the moment so no list to direct you to.

I saw your previous post about looking for a descendant of your former dog, and I just thought I'd throw out the information that there are a lot of puppy mills in Quebec. There have been some Doberman puppy mills there in the past for sure, and when you mentioned rare colour, it brought to mind that there was a "breeder" there way back when breeding albinos. So I know your memory lens is pretty rosy but it's possible that although you had a great dog in your memory, it may have been from a way less than stellar breeder. Being registered / tattooed isn't automatically a sign of good breeding. There's a lot more to it than that.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-21-2020, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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First thank you very informative.

The tattoo was in his mouth, for sure I remembered him asking his friends to try and see it.
I've posted a picture, bad quality sorry, but I don't think he looks albinos, but my knowledge is ziltch compared to anyone here.

Would the combination of unorthodox emplacement of tattoo and rare color be something that could be found?

I've asked in a post that might not pass the moderators, but hat would be the logic or expected format of tattoo (digits/alphacaracters)

Again, I'm trying to have Bruno 2.0, but just trying to get even partial a possible descendant, I knew when I let go that I would never see him again, that he would be dead when I could remember this info, but my past self worked as hard as he could to give the future self the most information possible. That is what I'm trying to respect, the young me sending old him.

I kow that sounds weird, but that is how I am. Weird, I've been called the E.T. of E.T.s nut I never minded that.

Thanks again (sorry moderators for the post of last night but it helped me, you can ignore it)
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-21-2020, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Since no official Breeder from Quebec is in the listings

Does anyone know this name ?

Fabert Doberman elevage

Thanks again for your input.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-21-2020, 08:18 PM
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I guess there was a time when they put tattoos on the gum. Wow, that was a long time ago.

Yes, Francoise is still breeding. I *think* she might have a little bit older litter now. I know she has a Facebook page, not sure if she still has an active website. Her husband passed away, but she breeds with another young woman who handles/d for her.

As you can see, there are quite a lot of Fabert entries in dobequest. http://dobequest.org/search.php?sear...ARCH+DOBEQUEST
I do a lot of the Canadian dog entries, and I've put a number of these in there.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-21-2020, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm sorry I just noticed that with my medical condition I don't write all the words properly and forget some

Still looking for the format of the tattoo if anyone can help in that regard it would be nice

and yes the tattoo was done around 1972 (+/- 1 year)

I will look at the post tomorrow

Thanks again
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-22-2020, 04:16 AM
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CKC breeders have a 3 letter/digit tattoo identification that identifies them. Mine, for example is WK5. So all of my puppies' tattoos start with WK5.

The next number is generally a number that identifies each puppy in the litter.

The last letter represents the year. The CKC tells us every year what the year letter is. Generally goes in order of the alphabet but they don't use letters that are easily confusable with numbers like O or I.

If I had a litter of 5 puppies this year - let's say the year letter this year is H (I don't remember what it is this year since I'm not having puppies), their tattoos would be WK51H, WK52H, WK53H, WK54H and WK55H. Then if I had another litter of puppies this year, I would carry on from there and they would be WK56H, WK57H and so on. You can start numbering puppies from 1 every year, or you can start numbering from 1 and go on from there for your whole breeding life if you want. So if I had produced 88 puppies over all of time, my last puppy would be WK588H.

Hopefully, that made sense.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-22-2020, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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Yes it was very helpful

Where can I get the list of the letters for 1970-1973 for example
To replace the (H) in the explanation above with possible values.

My brain is happy I fell it, the kind of info I needed

You guys are going to the super heroes of my book

Yup I've I started a book about that part of my life

Bruno, the Father dog that saved me

I wanted to put a picture on the back cover of a pack of Doberman, their popularity will increase and their reputation will change forever.


Would an old list from the years like 1970-1973 of Breeders exists?
Thanks again
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-22-2020, 07:27 PM
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I have all of the CKC Doberman studbooks from 1976 onward. Although there is actually little info in them from 1976 until about 1984. The CKC told me that there had been some sort of astronomical computer problem and that the electronic studbook info had been lost. To actually see those earlier studbooks, I imagine that they are available at the CKC library at head office in Etobicoke, Ontario although I imagine it's closed now with covid. Who knows what other treasures are there. The CKC has old official club magazines archived on their website for members - it says Nine decades of monthly magazines have been captured and restored through a high-resolution digital photographic process, and are now available for members to explore and enjoy. The publication was initially titled Canadian Kennel Gazette, later to become Kennel and Bench and finally Dogs In Canada. Dogs In Canada had a lot of breeder ads, especially in their Annual issue - it was THE place for breeders to advertise.

I do know that the letter for 1975 was G, so operating backward, and assuming that they had the same system then that they have now, I would assume that 1974 was F, 1973 was E. I don't think they use D so I would think that 1972 was C, 1971 was B and 1970 was A.

BTW, Fabert's personal tattoo prefix was XVS. I say "was" only because so many breeders no longer tattoo, but microchip. I was still doing both at the time of my last litter.


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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again so much

I think I remember a B, but at the time might have thought that it was for his name.

I'm gonna try to process that info

Also, if he sired any puppy in the list of say 1976, can he be retraced that way.

I'll go help the CKC for a year and help them with my computer skills

I'll go through everything, no one has seen an hyperactive OCD freak like me,

again thanks you guys are the best

I still have low expectations just in case anyone is worried.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-24-2020, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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I was looking at the Fabert entries, is there a way to filter out the colors or other attributes.

Would call name be Bruno, in the profile of the dog

As always your help is much appreciated


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-24-2020, 01:04 PM
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If you go to the Search page, Dobequestog Search Page
you can search by colour (and by kennel name together), but I already see that no results come up for Fabert + fawn or blue.

It would be very unlikely to have his call name entered. As I mentioned, I do a lot of the Canadian entries from the studbook. Many (most?) breeders don't participate in the database, and they would be the ones who know/knew the dogs intimately enough to enter call names. *I* wouldn't know (unless it happened to be a "famous", well-advertised dog. I just have registered information, for the most part.


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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2020, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your reply,

I will go see my friends the greasemonkeys and try to find a way to get faster results

keep you posted,

Again you guys are the best, I'm so happy I found this group

Keep you posted.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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I tried asking the greasemonkeys on the QA forum of programmers I used to go, but sadly programmers theses days seem just to know how to cut and paste code not really do any work themselves.

I'm going to see a hypnotherapist today to try and get more information.

I will get back to you with more info if I get any.

Looking at the picture of Bruno in my pictures can anyone tell me what color he would be ?

Thanks again for the help.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 01:37 PM
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Red, I think? Hard to tell from such an old photo. But the nose doesn't look like it belongs on a black or a blue.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 03:01 PM
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I don't want to be a downer but I really think you may be on a wild goose chase here. Even if you do end up finding out more about him, what if it ends up he's not even from a great breeder, or it goes back to a pedigree that led to dogs with a lot of health issues? What about looking for a great dobe now rather than from the past? Or is really knowing more about the dog important? If the latter, tracking down the people who owned him or knew the owners is really going to be the more productive route to take I would think.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-04-2020, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
Red, I think? Hard to tell from such an old photo. But the nose doesn't look like it belongs on a black or a blue.
I finally figured out where the picture was--I agree Mary--on top of everything else it's a picture of a picture but if the color register is at all close Bruno would just about have to be a red. Nose color is just wrong for black or blue and coat color much too dark to be a fawn--definitely not an albino.

But all things considered I think Greenkouki's suggestion is the best--basically not enough information to track back to the actually dog (Bruno) and looking to the present would be more profitable I think.

Good luck though...

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2020, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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I want to thank everyone for their input, my concussion acted up this month so I was unable to get myself moving, so this quest was put on hold for a little bit. As well, thank you for keeping me grounded in reality as for my chance of success, I know it might avail to nothing, but wouldn't forgive myself for not trying, I see this as trying to run the mile under 4 minutes before it was done, thought to be impossible until a wild man took on that wild goose chase.

Yeah! I'm a wild one, with lots of time on his hands, I just have to be Nils Holgersson for a while.

As of now, I restarted my physiotherapy and will begin ergo therapy, the hypnosis is helping me a lot, even if I started it to data mine information out of my brain, it is helping with issues and habits acquired to stay sane in the environment I was brought up in. I still get headaches when I'm on the computer for too long, but have changed my home setup, to help with the issue (using big screen tv as monitor, just can't use the three I'm used to).

Saturday, I started learning Python, yup I'll be a green grease-monkey, the first task was to be able to open a link of the Dobequest search list and look at the structure of the page Dobequestog Profile Page, that part is done. I will now work on a recursive function that will collect the genealogy tree of a Doberman in the list. For now the values are hard coded, but I plan to make the application use parameters, that way it can help going through lists faster. I'm interested in the Sires and a date of birth around 1970-71 ( I put 1968, just to be sure). I welcome all suggestions as to other parameters that might be useful, for now I have in mind to implement the following:
  • Date of Birth
  • Parents(default) - Sire - Dam
  • Color
  • Country

Once I have my first output file I'll post that, it will be up to the grandfather as a sample, adjusting the format as per your suggestions and ease of reading the information.

Still reading good, I know that my picture of a picture was not that good but I only managed to hide those two, that's why I still have them. The color Red seems to be the color that he was, looking at greenkouki's profile picture and Kevin Hart's dobes (the left one) are they Red as well?

https://images.app.goo.gl/egR4tAoSWvrThuPi7


Again thank you for the support and help, you guys are the best.

Last edited by Starling; 08-31-2020 at 07:55 AM.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-31-2020, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
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I want to thank everyone for their input, my concussion acted up this month so I was unable to get myself moving, so this quest was put on hold for a little bit. As well, thank you for keeping me grounded in reality as for my chance of success, I know it might avail to nothing, but wouldn't forgive myself for not trying, I see this as trying to run the mile under 4 minutes before it was done, thought to be impossible until a wild man took on that wild goose chase.

Yeah! I'm a wild one, with lots of time on his hands, I just have to be Nils Holgersson for a while.

As of now, I restarted my physiotherapy and will begin ergo therapy, the hypnosis is helping me a lot, even if I started it to data mine information out of my brain, it is helping with issues and habits acquired to stay sane in the environment I was brought up in. I still get headaches when I'm on the computer for too long, but have changed my home setup, to help with the issue (using big screen tv as monitor, just can't use the three I'm used to).

Saturday, I started learning Python, yup I'll be a green grease-monkey, the first task was to be able to open a link of the Dobequest search list and look at the structure of the page Dobequestog Profile Page, that part is done. I will now work on a recursive function that will collect the genealogy tree of a Doberman in the list. For now the values are hard coded, but I plan to make the application use parameters, that way it can help going through lists faster. I'm interested in the Sires and a date of birth around 1970-71 ( I put 1968, just to be sure). I welcome all suggestions as to other parameters that might be useful, for now I have in mind to implement the following:
  • Date of Birth
  • Parents(default) - Sire - Dam
  • Color
  • Country

Once I have my first output file I'll post that, it will be up to the grandfather as a sample, adjusting the format as per your suggestions and ease of reading the information.

Still reading good, I know that my picture of a picture was not that good but I only managed to hide those two, that's why I still have them. The color Red seems to be the color that he was, looking at greenkouki's profile picture and Kevin Hart's dobes (the left one) are they Red as well?

https://images.app.goo.gl/egR4tAoSWvrThuPi7


Again thank you for the support and help, you guys are the best.
Yes, greenkouki's puppy is red and the Dobe on the left of the Kevin Hart picture is also red.

Red isn't a particularly unusual color though. Even in 1972 or around that date. The allowed colors in Dobermans by percentage are roughly 50+% black, 30ish % red, blue around 13+% and fawn around 6 or 7 %.

Black is dominant, red is recessive. Blue and fawn also depend on a genetic dilution factor--so blue's can be produced by dominant black parent or one that also carries red but both parents need to carry a dilution factor. And fawn is what you see is what you get--since fawn is actually a red dog with a dilution factor from each parent.

Good luck with your project.

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-04-2020, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Oh I forgot to put the Breeder`s name in the parameters.
  • Breeder
  • Date of Birth
  • Parents(default) - Sire - Dam
  • Color
  • Country

As I mentionned any usefull parameters that you can think of would be appreciated, it is easier to implement at the start.

Now back to Python.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-06-2020, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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It's me again, I was looking through the information of the Dog profile page, working on this one

Dobequestog Profile Page

I'm trying to figure out things, like why would a sibling have a different country?

AKC => the American Kennel Club
AKC studbook => is the reference to the book where I would find more info on that dog

I did think that the database would be more standardized, I guess that's why the wild goose chase was mentioned. I was a programmer at a bank, I might have transposed the diligence of one domain to the other, ha ha ha.

I'm still going forward with the project since the physiotherapist said to be on the computer to get the eyes working at a normal level again and learning a new programming language helps to push new data from short to long term memory, so it's all good.

Thanks again for your input it's vary valuable and I would like to have beta tester for my app, I will donate it and maintain here or where ever members suggest it should be.

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-06-2020, 08:05 PM
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The AKC Studbook date is when they were entered into the Studbook. It's when the first litter they were a parent of was registered


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