Dobermansrule-

Only one more point to make about this being a "Dem thang", even though it's on record that all Rep's voted against it......This is the thing....no matter what the damage done, it's always going to be W's fault in the end. Even after The Great One's term has come to a close (8 yrs), everything that has and that will possibly happen will still be blamed on Bush.

Oh well....guess I will just buckle up and hang on because this is going to be a wild ride.

Michael

I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by 'the truth', for me its a matter of live and let live, living your life according to your own moral compass/belief systems and allowing others to do the same, within reason and herein lies the difficulty.
Many religious practices/customs are morally abhorrent to me, the subservient position of women, the maltreatment of homosexuals and minorities being some examples. Afghanistan, Iran and fundamentalist Islam spring to mind when one hears of such abuses however I think it’s important to remember that other religions have influenced, if not directly controlled, other societies. Almost every aspect of life in my own country including some of its polices/legislation was until relatively recently 'governed' by the Catholic Church, no divorce, media censorship, banning of contraceptives (I can still remember the news headlines when condoms were legalised), criminalisation of homosexuality being a few examples. There was a saying among Unionist's in Northern Ireland that 'Dublin Rule was Rome Rule' and to be honest they weren't far from the truth.
Hence I'm strongly for keeping a line firmly between religion and politics, to protect the 'minority form the tyranny of the majority'. However, having said that, I'm also strongly of the belief that religion is not above the law; acts deemed criminal should remain so even though many would consider them to be legitimate under their religion.
I agree with you that religious ethics are echoed in non religious ethical systems, and for me, that is where the line should be drawn.
Regarding the quote I used in my original post, using humankinds intellect to improve human existence, I'm of the opinion that it is ethic's which should govern these endeavours and legislation regarding them should be ethically and not religiously based, after all laws are there to govern us all regardless of what, if any, religious beliefs we hold.
I think the following quote taken from Obama's 'The audacity of hope' sums it up.
'If I am opposed to abortion for religious reasons and seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or invoke God's will and expect that argument to carry the day. If I want others to listen to me, then I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths'.

unfortunately crawling up to the trough of never ending all giving government money has become habit forming. Doesn't make it right. And it's not 'stimulus' - that's a misnomer, like a wolf in sheeps clothing. It's a government pork package - government as usual. It will stimulate nothing but the clamor for handouts, and debt.

We shall see. And unlike the past, we will genuinely see. We will have access to how every dollar is spent and know exactly what is happening. Thats nice.

We shall see. And unlike the past, we will genuinely see. We will have access to how every dollar is spent and know exactly what is happening. Thats nice.

Do ya really believe that????? Maybe, if we had a press that was not in bed with those pushing this package.

Funny you mentioned Obama (and in this thread). I bought that book and loaned it to my mom the day I did. Still waiting to get it back lol. Just last semester I took a course on British Imperialism and I got a much deeper look at how things unfolded in Ireland. I think it is wonderful that the conflict has finally been given the time to heal and eventually fade away. Gotta say, IM very excited that George Mitchell was appointed to help with the Middle East conflicts.

Obama himself has promised to set up a website that will allow us to track everything going on, dollar for dollar, project to project.

He has already started these projects online and is faithful to them so far. Change.org is well underway and he is already forming committees to research the first ten ideas submitted. If you go to the white house website, you can keep up with things day by day and find out exactly what is going on.

I understand people being pessimistic but he is actually doing things and people aren't even aware of it - because they don't believe him so they aren't paying attention to or looking out for the fact it is actually happening.

I suggest people get involved instead of merely complaining. We have nothing to lose by at least TRYING to contribute to the process. Otherwise, peoples complaints and nay-saying is starting to ring very hollow.

I wrote a big long answer to Avs rebuttal, but the website swallowed it...........aren't you glad??

In short--it's great that gov. is starting website to become more accountable (thanks for your info), but my concern was that the press isn't doing their job by reporting facts, not opinion. We need more than one source of information. The gov. is obviously a biased source; I would like to see more details from other sources.

But the basic problem here is that we just disagree what programs are good, and what methods of solving problems are good. There some programs I will never support, even if they work (perhaps especially if they work) because I feel they are taking us in the wrong direction.

That's the way it is!!!

When it comes to all of this economy stuff, I pretty much just sit and watch. I see the greatest minds in the world debating, butting heads and often saying the opposite of eachother. How the hell does someone like ME know what is right??

The only thing that I do KNOW is that people have to keep spending - especially the wealthy. Holding money tightly only makes things worse. What's more, is that we need to try to be conscious of buying American whenever possible. Unfortunately, we are no longer a manufacturing focused country and this is hurting us very badly.