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post #6526 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 09:32 PM
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My heart goes out to you Brits who have to deal with this s**t. I have family that lives in London. Vote accordingly my UK friends! Enough!!!

John
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post #6527 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 01:16 AM
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It's now 22 dead and 59 injured. God this crap saddens me however it's not yet been confirmed as to what the cause of the explosion was!

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post #6528 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 02:06 AM
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So it seems it was a suicide bomber with an IED strapped to himself. These s**ts really, really are cowards of the highest sort.
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post #6529 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 03:21 AM
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I feel sick to my stomach, words can't describe the level of disgust I'm feeling right now for these repulsive human beings. What kind of deranged animal targets a concert full of kids? Many parents still don't know where their children are and if it were mine I would want some kind of retribution.
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post #6530 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 06:07 AM
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it was a suicide bomber...what would your retribution look like?
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post #6531 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 06:16 AM
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So a shopping centre in Manchester has now been evacuated following a suspicious package being found in the food court. Maybe a bigger plot has been a foot and caught us unaware?

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post #6532 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 06:17 AM
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it was a suicide bomber...what would your retribution look like?
a moab?
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post #6533 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 06:31 AM
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a moab?
Yep, that would do it. However, what will actually happen is nothing. It will blow over, excuses will be made, the police will be unfairly blamed and soon other news will take the front pages. Until they do it again. How did we every become so bloody tolerant?

They've arrested a 23 year old and ideally he would disappear into the bowels of the MI5 building never to be seen again. Instead he'll be playing Xbox and enjoying his civil liberties.
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post #6534 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 06:59 AM
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a MOAB on who ? where ?
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post #6535 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:19 AM
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Isis has taken credit. Islamic terrorism again; war against children. I have three grand daughters in the age range of the girls at the concert so my heart is full of pain for the victims and families. These terrorists must be wiped off of the face of the earth and the people trying to bring Islam into the 21st century must be listened to.
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post #6536 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:24 AM
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I hear he waited in the foyer for the concert to end. Waiting for them to begin to leave. I've dropped my teenage daughter off at concerts, just last week she was at the Emirates Stadium, and every time I say to her "leave a little early to avoid the rush". It was those kids that died - and the parents waiting for them. So far I think the youngest was a little girl of 8.
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post #6537 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 02:38 PM
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Calling this terrorism and thinking we can fix it by defeating terrorists is way too simple of an explanation. What we have going on is asymmetrical warfare. Any group anywhere in the world can be hit by dronestrike from a handful of countries and there's 0 they can do about it, so instead they launch these kinds of attacks.

I don't think there is a cure, I think this is what the 21st century battleground is going to look like. And it sucks.

If we really wanted to prevent these attacks we should invest in k9 police and security. You could probably cover an entire stadium with about 50, the dogs move according to the trail (not on set schedules like a security patrol) and with cameras everywhere and machine learning you can pick out whose trying to dodge the dogs easy enough.

No solution is perfect, but that's where I'd start, along with trees and bollards or concrete benches along all the streets to prevent cars from going on side walks.

This tragedy happened because the enemy adapted to us and we haven't caught up yet. We also haven't caught up on the social net for everyone affected. The victims, survivors, family and friends, people who were there that day. It does damage to all of them, and that spreads out to the people close to them. We need social support systems or first responders to stem the hurt that radiates from these events. I hope everyone affected finds someone who understands and can help them.
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post #6538 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 03:05 PM
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For me I would just as soon take my chances of being killed in a suicide bomb attack over living with having to take my shoes off at the air port having bomb sniffing dogs all over ect ect ect.

No matter what you set up for there are 1000's of ways for the criminals to get around it all this BS we put up with does nothing to stop it all it does is make them happy they are disrupting our lives.


If you are worried about it lock yourself in and never go out QUIT taking away my freedoms
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post #6539 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 03:46 PM
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We are fighting a ideology that is in a massive need of reformation. In its current form it is not compatible with a free and open society. To me that is the root of all the killing that is done in the name of ISLAM. The follower of Islam who murdered these people is now considered a better Muslim than one who doesn't kill infidels. It is time to look at removing this toxic cult from our society ,history knows how this will end.

I am saddened by the loss of life that happened after a night of fun and music for the young. May God have Mercy on the souls of All life lost in this event.

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post #6540 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 04:24 PM
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I agree Shady. I also think trees and park benches are good things, and they make roadways safer for everyone. These are the kinds of solutions we need. Just like a sniffer dog in public is way preferable to however many millions of flyers having to get undressed or the special scanners that don't really work and cause bubbles in your DNA.

But I don't think the answer of doing nothing or not changing anything is good enough either. As long as we are putting thought and money and effort into designing and building useful things, we should make sure they are the right things and that they provide as much benefit as possible.

@Alan , this is a war that's been going on for ~1400 years. And it's only loosely tied to religion. They fight among themselves just as much and have for longer than Islam has been around, and then countries like Indonesia have millions of followers but little religious violence (or less than most of the world right now). Alexander the Great was the only one who brought peace to the area, when he conquered from Greece to Africa and from Europe to India. It's much bigger than an ideology or a handful or groups, it's a fundamental result of the geography and history of a large part of the world.
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post #6541 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 04:32 PM
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Calling this terrorism and thinking we can fix it by defeating terrorists is way too simple of an explanation. What we have going on is asymmetrical warfare. Any group anywhere in the world can be hit by dronestrike from a handful of countries and there's 0 they can do about it, so instead they launch these kinds of attacks.

I don't think there is a cure, I think this is what the 21st century battleground is going to look like. And it sucks.

If we really wanted to prevent these attacks we should invest in k9 police and security. You could probably cover an entire stadium with about 50, the dogs move according to the trail (not on set schedules like a security patrol) and with cameras everywhere and machine learning you can pick out whose trying to dodge the dogs easy enough.

No solution is perfect, but that's where I'd start, along with trees and bollards or concrete benches along all the streets to prevent cars from going on side walks.

This tragedy happened because the enemy adapted to us and we haven't caught up yet. We also haven't caught up on the social net for everyone affected. The victims, survivors, family and friends, people who were there that day. It does damage to all of them, and that spreads out to the people close to them. We need social support systems or first responders to stem the hurt that radiates from these events. I hope everyone affected finds someone who understands and can help them.

I believe that we can defeat the Islamic terrorists by, of course, killing as many as possible, but also by countering their hate and propaganda with the truth. In this we need the help of none terrorist supporting Muslims who understand that the religion cannot continue to live in the 17th century. President Trump is getting a good start on this with his support of an Arabic NATO type organization to defend against Islamic terrorists and their supporters.

I do fully support your suggestions of security for big events like concerts, etc. The NYPD does an excellent job in this arena and could pass this knowledge on to other law enforcement (I am sure that they are often consulted).


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For me I would just as soon take my chances of being killed in a suicide bomb attack over living with having to take my shoes off at the air port having bomb sniffing dogs all over ect ect ect.

No matter what you set up for there are 1000's of ways for the criminals to get around it all this BS we put up with does nothing to stop it all it does is make them happy they are disrupting our lives.


If you are worried about it lock yourself in and never go out QUIT taking away my freedoms

I value my liberty as much as, or more, than most, and I believe that the TSA does many unnecessary, useless, and stupid things in airport security. The use of explosive detection dogs is not one of them as they are not invasive and are effective.

Explosive detection dogs could be used outside of concerts to check the crowd; the Secret Service does this outside of the White House fence with "friendly dogs", floppy eared dogs such as retrievers, so the crowd does not part as they would for more serious looking dogs like GSDs or Belgian Malinois. This gives the dogs closer contact with individuals; again not invasive.
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post #6542 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 02:44 AM
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So our threat level has finally been raised to critical... a bit late in the day now really but typical Britain waiting until this sort of incident happens before reacting.

Our Military will now be patrolling certain areas of our streets. However only in key places like Buckingham Palace, Downing Street, embassies and the Palace of Westminster... you know what bothers me most about this, it wasn't any of those places which were targeted on Monday night. However I'm sure I will sleep easier knowing our Royal family and our MP's are being protected at night, like they are more important than everyone else?

Urgh anyway I'm happy to know there will be some sort of Military presence on our streets no matter how small that may be.

Just as a foot note, I personally wouldn't use a MOAB but was just throwing the suggestion out there. Our reaction to this needs to be well thought out and planned not a knee jerk reaction which just causes more mess and doesn't solve anything like we did in the past.

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post #6543 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 09:29 AM
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My daughter is taking a long planned trip to England next week. It figures. She’ll stay there for two weeks, so it’s not like having to live there day to day though. And the guy she is visiting has a bit of social phobia, so they weren’t planning on going to all the standard tourist places anyway. He lives in a little-bitty village--I guess she’s figuring they’ll just hole up in his apartment if need be. He’s the reason she visiting anyway

Anyway, it’s the randomness of things that bothers me (as it is supposed to).

But more people are killed in car accidents, I imagine, than in most terrorist attacks. Don’t get me wrong--I can’t even imagine the pain parents and friends of these kids are going through. And all those kids who weren’t injured physically having to deal with the fear of worrying about what could have happened to them (survivor shock) and what could happen in the future; I would think at least a permanent fear of being in crowds--debilitating.

For my daughter’s sake, though I worry about the possibility of being caught in an attack, I worry more about the mess of airports closings, train and bus schedules being thrown off--and all those things that an cause you to miss a connection and mess up your schedule big time. Seeing as how she will be traveling abroad for the first time and will have enough of that thing to figure out anyway.

Maybe because thinking she will be caught in the wrong time at the wrong place is too frightening for me to think about.

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post #6544 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 11:14 AM
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@melbrod
It's our prerogative as parents to worry and imagine the worst, no matter how much we tell ourselves that it's irrational. I do it all the time and my parents probably did when I was younger and the IRA blew up Bishopsgate where I worked. And when my sister flew to Chicago just days after 9/11.
My daughter is flying alone to Spain soon and then she wants to go to camp at a big music festival which fills me with dread - so I totally get how you're feeling.
I know it won't ease your mind but security will be tight as a drum and outside of the cities and major transport hubs everything remains the same as thought nothing ever happened.
I hope your daughter has a good journey without any hitches or delays and a lovely holiday - the weather right now is amazing.
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post #6545 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 03:16 PM
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But that is the rub if the government <well I should say the past government I have hope Trump is more realistic> does something to "improve our safety" have they in recent history done it without taking freedoms from the every day Joe and that freedom taken has no effects on the bad guys well because bad guys don't follow the rules.




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I believe that we can defeat the Islamic terrorists by, of course, killing as many as possible, but also by countering their hate and propaganda with the truth. In this we need the help of none terrorist supporting Muslims who understand that the religion cannot continue to live in the 17th century. President Trump is getting a good start on this with his support of an Arabic NATO type organization to defend against Islamic terrorists and their supporters.

I do fully support your suggestions of security for big events like concerts, etc. The NYPD does an excellent job in this arena and could pass this knowledge on to other law enforcement (I am sure that they are often consulted).





I value my liberty as much as, or more, than most, and I believe that the TSA does many unnecessary, useless, and stupid things in airport security. The use of explosive detection dogs is not one of them as they are not invasive and are effective.

Explosive detection dogs could be used outside of concerts to check the crowd; the Secret Service does this outside of the White House fence with "friendly dogs", floppy eared dogs such as retrievers, so the crowd does not part as they would for more serious looking dogs like GSDs or Belgian Malinois. This gives the dogs closer contact with individuals; again not invasive.
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post #6546 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 04:58 PM
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But that is the rub if the government <well I should say the past government I have hope Trump is more realistic> does something to "improve our safety" have they in recent history done it without taking freedoms from the every day Joe and that freedom taken has no effects on the bad guys well because bad guys don't follow the rules.

Shady, I do not want any loss of liberty either. I realize that there is a fine line, but it can be done by local law enforcement; as I mentioned the NYPD does an excellent job and they have a lot of really big events in New York. Of course I am not talking about national security, just big local stuff, thou I do believe Attorney General Jeff Sessions will follow the Constitution when the feds are involved.

The feds have no reason to be involved, in most instances, except for passing on intelligence. There are many good, dedicated FBI Agents, but most are not as good investigators as are local police (local police investigators get much more real life crime investigation experience). The FBI is not called 'famous but incompetent' for nothing.
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post #6547 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 01:09 AM
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Melbrod, I understand your fears. My daughter flew to New York for her holiday right around the time Trump was elected. I was sick to my stomach with the thought of her getting caught up in any trouble & being so far away from home.

Maybe you could share whereabouts she is staying over here so we can ease your mind a little? If she's away from the major cities she's pretty much safe as houses.

Hope she enjoys her trip to our beautiful little island. If she wants any suggestions of places to visit, just ask.


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post #6548 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 11:30 AM
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More and more evidence is coming out about how the Obama administration helped terrorists and criminal gangs (MS-13) to infiltrate into America. He was the an enemy of America and should tried for treason; as I have stated before Obama was pure evil. Only a fool, insane person, or fellow traveler could still support him.

Instead the democrats are diverting attention by still pushing the fictional
Russia/Trump connection.


___________________God Bless America.
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post #6549 of 6845 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 12:24 PM
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Long itenerary-you can skip down to the blue part

From Denver International (one layover) to Orly Airport on American and British Air on May 28th, to Strasbourg by train, a bit of the western Alps I believe (castles!) for a weekish, then from Basel to Stansted (Ryan Air). Boyfriend’s? village population about 2,000. Then they’ll head on up into Scotland (ride the ponies!) somewhere for another week. These kids just go wherever they feel on any given day. Back from Heathrow (one layover) to Denver International on June 11.

Son and ex will be on same trip from US to Paris and the Alps, take a week to wander from Basel to Amsterdam for a pipe organ festival (Son will probably play!!). Basically about 3 weeks in Europe total. Son and ex back to Orly and then son alone (one layover) Denver Int’l on June 18th. Change terminals in Heathrow.

Basically all on American and British Airways, plus Ryan for hop from Basel to Stansted. A fair amount by car and train.

The main worries, I guess, are Orly, the Eiffel Tower (a must), train from Paris--Strasbourg, Basel by air to Sansted airport and north to who knows! (kids), Heathrow, and back to US. So basically the various airports involved, the Eiffel Tower, the trains etc between various places, to and from everywhere . For son, traveling back to US through Heathrow alone, BIG worry because he will be by himself, but he skips the rest of England Not enough time.

England and France are both countries with possible worries, I imagine.
Sherv.net

Last edited by melbrod; 05-25-2017 at 10:23 PM.
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What an amazing itinerary!! I understand your anxiety. I would be the same.

Let us know how he does - and you, too!

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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