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post #6376 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:03 PM
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I see the Globalist POS David Rockefeller has died.

Satan is surely stoking up the fires of hell for his imminent arrival.
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post #6377 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM
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I see the Globalist POS David Rockefeller has died.

Satan is surely stoking up the fires of hell for his imminent arrival.
^^ 101 y/o POS that had 6 heart surgeries, in life / helps not to on a waiting list.

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Now on the lighter side, of politics:

Eric Trump announces wife Lara is pregnant with baby boy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good 32 minute video, by Canadian's very own Stefan Molyneux:

Winning the Culture War with President Trump: Survival Guide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTYsXY52pX0

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post #6378 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 11:28 AM
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Looks like London has suffered a terror attack this afternoon.

Witnesses are reporting an Asian man has mown down 12 people on Westminster Bridge & then gone on to stab a Police Officer in the grounds of Westminster. One woman reported dead so far. The scumbag was shot by Police. Scotland Yard are treating it as a terror attack until they know otherwise.

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post #6379 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 12:48 PM
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Sadly the police officer has been killed. What the hell is going on with the world?

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post #6380 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 12:52 PM
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I see the Globalist POS David Rockefeller has died.

Satan is surely stoking up the fires of hell for his imminent arrival.
Well hopefully he kept hell hot and ready for Martin McGuiness! If there is ever a man who deserves to be in hell its him.

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post #6381 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 01:30 PM
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Well hopefully he kept hell hot and ready for Martin McGuiness! If there is ever a man who deserves to be in hell its him.
Couldn't agree more with you. How this man ever escaped justice for the murder & misery he caused is beyond me, though the fact that Tony Blair was singing his praises & will attend his funeral just about sums it up.


Such sad news about the policeman & two others that have lost their lives this afternoon. On a happier note, the scumbag terrorist is dead.

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post #6382 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 02:57 PM
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Although I think a quick death was far too good for him. I have a variety of more creative options for dealing with terrorists, all of which would sadly infringe their "human rights".
Hell must be one busy place at the moment.
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post #6383 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 05:31 PM
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Very glad that there were armed police present, not just the usual, sadly, almost helpless unarmed London police.

Prayers for the families of the victims.
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post #6384 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 07:24 PM
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I have been struggling with some thoughts lately that I simply have to state here. Once again, I know internet message boards are not the right place to create change and I don't expect anything to come. I just feel that something must be said. As I've said previously, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't make a point to state that to strangers on the internet very often but I have seen some very prominent members post in this very thread that they have similar or even identical beliefs as me. While I fully respect the separation of church and state, if you prioritize your religion as highly as me (and a lot of other people in a lot of other religions), then it inevitably seeps into all aspects of your world view. One current issue that my beliefs can't help but effect my view of is immigration.

I've see people on here say things like the left wants to allow anyone and everyone in to the country or how people shouldn't be freaking out over a few travelers being detained. For me and many other people like me, my concerns with President Trump's immigration policies has next to nothing to do with your typical traveler and I certainly don't want completely open borders. My biggest problem is the thought of shutting down all refugees from coming to our country.

I don't pretend to think that there aren't going to be people who attempt to abuse the refugee program with the intent of doing harm, but I don't think refusing to help those in need is the right thing to do. The president and others use terms like "extreme vetting" to give off the image that our country hasn't been thoroughly vetting everyone coming inside our borders. They act like we have been letting anyone and everyone in when in reality, we have by far the hardest refugee program to get through.

I can somewhat understand why people who aren't of the same faith as me are for closed borders. I cannot understand how someone can call themselves a Christian and be ok with a universal denial of people attempting to flee countries of war. "'For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me'. Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' And the King Will answer the, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'" (Matthew 25:35-40). Followers of Christ are not called to live in fear. We are called to love others regardless of what they look like.

As for people who don't hold the same beliefs as me but still love this country that we are blessed to call home. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" (Emma Lazarus, the quote on the statue of liberty).

We all come from immigrants. Turning away refugees and even people from other countries that are in desperate need of help is not an idea that is rational to me.

Feel free to reply and tell me I'm stupid and hate America though.


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post #6385 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:08 PM
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

I have no problem with this

I have a problem with the guys who want to come in and do harm by falsely calming they want to breathe free

I have problems with the poor that want to come and suck down the benefits I have paid into all my life just because they walked across a border and have no interest in adapting to our way of life and getting a damn job.

As for tired I am tired too lol Because I have to work 3 months of the year for FREE to pay for all the benefits given out to people who do not deserve them.

Why would anyone have a problem doing an in depth study of someone coming from an area known to produce people that HATE our way of life and will do anything in there power to do us harm. I have never saw anything saying we are trying to permanently ban anyone other than broadcast news.

Why do people have a problem kicking out people here ILLEGALLY with extensive records and no I don't care if you have a few tickets or minor things but if you cause physical harm or mental harm to anyone you should get kicked out. If you cant hold a job you should be kicked out. If you are in a gang or deal in drugs BYE BYE.



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I have been struggling with some thoughts lately that I simply have to state here. Once again, I know internet message boards are not the right place to create change and I don't expect anything to come. I just feel that something must be said. As I've said previously, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't make a point to state that to strangers on the internet very often but I have seen some very prominent members post in this very thread that they have similar or even identical beliefs as me. While I fully respect the separation of church and state, if you prioritize your religion as highly as me (and a lot of other people in a lot of other religions), then it inevitably seeps into all aspects of your world view. One current issue that my beliefs can't help but effect my view of is immigration.

I've see people on here say things like the left wants to allow anyone and everyone in to the country or how people shouldn't be freaking out over a few travelers being detained. For me and many other people like me, my concerns with President Trump's immigration policies has next to nothing to do with your typical traveler and I certainly don't want completely open borders. My biggest problem is the thought of shutting down all refugees from coming to our country.

I don't pretend to think that there aren't going to be people who attempt to abuse the refugee program with the intent of doing harm, but I don't think refusing to help those in need is the right thing to do. The president and others use terms like "extreme vetting" to give off the image that our country hasn't been thoroughly vetting everyone coming inside our borders. They act like we have been letting anyone and everyone in when in reality, we have by far the hardest refugee program to get through.

I can somewhat understand why people who aren't of the same faith as me are for closed borders. I cannot understand how someone can call themselves a Christian and be ok with a universal denial of people attempting to flee countries of war. "'For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me'. Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' And the King Will answer the, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'" (Matthew 25:35-40). Followers of Christ are not called to live in fear. We are called to love others regardless of what they look like.

As for people who don't hold the same beliefs as me but still love this country that we are blessed to call home. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" (Emma Lazarus, the quote on the statue of liberty).

We all come from immigrants. Turning away refugees and even people from other countries that are in desperate need of help is not an idea that is rational to me.

Feel free to reply and tell me I'm stupid and hate America though.
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post #6386 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:45 PM
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Why we can’t help the refugees where they are? Help to secure safe places in their own lands and within their own cultures. Do we have to allow them to come here if we are placing ourselves and our families in danger, and also stretching the wallet (of the government, supported by taxes) to the point where we can’t take care of our own? We have a responsibility to help the poor and needy within our own country too.

The question may not be “Why don’t we help the refugees by letting them into our country?” but instead, “Is taking them into our country the best way of helping them (considering everyone’s needs--both those of Americans and of refugees)?”
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post #6387 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 09:51 PM
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Why we can’t help the refugees where they are? Help to secure safe places in their own lands and within their own cultures. Do we have to allow them to come here if we are placing ourselves and our families in danger, and also stretching the wallet (of the government, supported by taxes) to the point where we can’t take care of our own? We have a responsibility to help the poor and needy within our own country too.

The question may not be “Why don’t we help the refugees by letting them into our country?” but instead, “Is taking them into our country the best way of helping them (considering everyone’s needs--both those of Americans and of refugees)?”
Helping them where they are doesn't make sense become they are in a war zone.

There is no perfect solution. Of course people have to give of themselves to help others. Of course there will always be people that abuse our help. And of course we have many other issues so it seems like cutting one of them out would be smart.

Again, the point of my post was to simply state that I have a hard time understanding how people of my faith can justify the complete refusal of helping get victims of war a safe place to be. I am looking at from the point of view as a Christian American. I can somewhat understand if people who don't have my beliefs feel differently. I cannot understand how someone with my beliefs can justify it.

Imagine you were in their position. Uprooted from your home. In constant danger. Likely lost numerous friends and family. Attempt to flee to America for any number of reasons (again, we are all very fortunate to be in this country regardless of how you view politics or any other issue) only to find out that they won't take you because they think you're a terrorist.

Again, I have zero problem with people being detained for further questioning, deportation of criminals, or extremely thorough vetting processes (which again, we had long before Trump's extreme vetting). There has to be a middle ground between completely open boarders and completely closed boarders.

I'm not looking to start arguments. I know I can't convince any of you to change your thoughts on here. My whole point was just to state that I, because of my religious beliefs that some of you have stated that you share, cannot understand refusing all refugees. You can pick apart the statue of liberty quote all you want. I am sort of curious how Christian commenters on here can argue for these policies after reading Matthew 25:35-40


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post #6388 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 10:16 PM
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Always an interesting read for me although I do try to stay out of this thread since I am a Canadian and have been accused of being a socialist.....but I digress.

This current topic of conversation is very thought provoking for me. All this talk on people coming into North America and wanting to change how everything is and not adapting to the current way of life.

Are you guys discussing immigration policy or colonization? You know when all the European settlers aka colonizers invaded North America and stripped indigenous people of all they had and tried to force assimilation.

Points to ponder because I see many similarities in the arguments being touted. Let us not forget who the true North Americans actually are.

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post #6389 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 10:59 PM
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Helping them where they are doesn't make sense become they are in a war zone.

There is no perfect solution........ helping get victims of war a safe place to be.
That is what I am suggesting. But I don’t see why the US is necessarily the place the people need to come to.

I would guess that most of these people do not want to come to the US and assimilate into our culture...they just want to be safe. IF (big if, I know) a safe place could be set up, supported by the US and maybe a number of our allies/other countries ( the UN?? ) who are horrified by what is happening, I believe many of these people would be happy to be able to remain in an area where their beliefs and way of life can be continued. IF they can feel safe in their surroundings.

The Old Testament talks about Israel taking in strangers--but it is a conditional offer based on the strangers being willing to join in the Hebrew beliefs--celebrating their Holy Days and living according to their many religious practices, for example. The country of Israel was under no obligation to take in strangers who were not willing to conform to their way of living. I don’t think most of these people fit into that category.

As in many other areas, the New Testament raises the bar. But we are not a country with infinitely deep pockets and we do have a responsibility to help and protect people who are here in this country already. In the context of taking care of orphans, widows, and indigent people within the Christian community, 1st Timothy has this to say:

1 Timothy 5:8 NIV
"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” A strong statement that I’m not sure I completely support, but....there it is.

In a sense, though, I'm thinking of the old saw about "give the man a fish....teach him to fish..." My discussion rests on exploring what other solutions may be out there that perhaps are better for all concerned. It is a matter of “procedure” rather than a disagreement about the need for helping these people. There may be different ways to help the needy and poor. The goal is the same; the methods are different.

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post #6390 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:28 AM
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The bigger question to me is why the US has the need and desire to destroy the fragile stability that many of the middle eastern countries had before spread of " democracy". To make matters worse is to place the victims of the process (refugees) into the lands that help destroy their own.
I do not feel that the muslim refugees will ever be a asset to the U.S. but a ever growing liability and a battle for a later date.
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post #6391 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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When people are against letting refugees in, I feel they haven't completed their picture of how refugees/ the refugee system works on two critical points.

1) These are people, good/bad/educated/not etc. Same mix as we have here. They need help right now, but most of them will only be given enough help to help themselves, and in the future will acquire skills or education to live at our standards, pay taxes, support their families, and also bring problem solving methods and other ways of doing things that work very well. They won't be on welfare forever, because we kick them out if they do that, unlike people born here or who come here illegally under the radar.

2) Some bad people might slip through, or get over here and become radicalised. So what? Are we that afraid to stand up and fight literally a handful of people that we'd let hundreds of thousands of innocents perish? We weren't afraid to go there and go after them, why is it different at home?

3) @ melbrod The only way to help them where they're at is to establish a stable government, infrastructure, military etc. Basically set up their own first world country for them. It's an endless money sink with no real promise of success. It's much better to expand and improve things here at home and let them come here, meanwhile we let in their doctors / engineers / programmers and fill our massive skilled labor vacuum.
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post #6392 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 01:56 PM
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The bigger question to me is why the US has the need and desire to destroy the fragile stability that many of the middle eastern countries had before spread of " democracy". To make matters worse is to place the victims of the process (refugees) into the lands that help destroy their own.
I do not feel that the muslim refugees will ever be a asset to the U.S. but a ever growing liability and a battle for a later date.
You only need to look to Europe to see what's coming your way one day.

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post #6393 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 03:58 PM
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When people are against letting refugees in, I feel they haven't completed their picture of how refugees/ the refugee system works on two critical points.

1) These are people, good/bad/educated/not etc. Same mix as we have here. They need help right now, but most of them will only be given enough help to help themselves, and in the future will acquire skills or education to live at our standards, pay taxes, support their families, and also bring problem solving methods and other ways of doing things that work very well. They won't be on welfare forever, because we kick them out if they do that, unlike people born here or who come here illegally under the radar.

2) Some bad people might slip through, or get over here and become radicalised. So what? Are we that afraid to stand up and fight literally a handful of people that we'd let hundreds of thousands of innocents perish? We weren't afraid to go there and go after them, why is it different at home?
We are afraid to go after them abroad...Afghanistan is still going on ,Bin laden is dead (?) , we still lose men and women there and on the flip side Heroin use is the new crack epidemic i find that strange.
3) @ melbrod The only way to help them where they're at is to establish a stable government, infrastructure, military etc. Basically set up their own first world country for them. It's an endless money sink with no real promise of success. It's much better to expand and improve things here at home and let them come here, meanwhile we let in their doctors / engineers / programmers and fill our massive skilled labor vacuum.
I could not disagree more! The best way to help them is to stay out of their world and force them to reconcile the problems they live with themselves. They can put their problem solving skills to work! The US is very close to the point where we have too many in the cart and not enough to pull. Their is always a place for skilled workers but the foreign workers usually drive the labor cost down and many times at the expense of American workers job.
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post #6394 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JobeyV View Post
You only need to look to Europe to see what's coming your way one day.
You can look further back in history to Spain and Hungary.
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post #6395 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Caleb Cox View Post
I have been struggling with some thoughts lately that I simply have to state here. Once again, I know internet message boards are not the right place to create change and I don't expect anything to come. I just feel that something must be said. As I've said previously, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't make a point to state that to strangers on the internet very often but I have seen some very prominent members post in this very thread that they have similar or even identical beliefs as me. While I fully respect the separation of church and state, if you prioritize your religion as highly as me (and a lot of other people in a lot of other religions), then it inevitably seeps into all aspects of your world view. One current issue that my beliefs can't help but effect my view of is immigration.


You do realize that there is no 'separation of church and state' in the Constitution. The phrase came from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danberry (sp.?) Baptists assuring them that the Federal Government would not/could not interfere with their church.

I've see people on here say things like the left wants to allow anyone and everyone in to the country or how people shouldn't be freaking out over a few travelers being detained. For me and many other people like me, my concerns with President Trump's immigration policies has next to nothing to do with your typical traveler and I certainly don't want completely open borders. My biggest problem is the thought of shutting down all refugees from coming to our country.


The pause was not shutting down all refugees coming to America; it was only a pause for a select few counties where there is a lot of Islamic terrorist activity.

I don't pretend to think that there aren't going to be people who attempt to abuse the refugee program with the intent of doing harm, but I don't think refusing to help those in need is the right thing to do. The president and others use terms like "extreme vetting" to give off the image that our country hasn't been thoroughly vetting everyone coming inside our borders. They act like we have been letting anyone and everyone in when in reality, we have by far the hardest refugee program to get through.


Do you not realize that the refugees form the Muslim countries are selected by the UN, not by our state department. In many cases there is not complete information on these people. We have the right to know who is coming here.

God believes in extreme vetting. He said "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have none other gods but me". Jesus said "The only way to Heaven is thru me". No pagans allowed.

I can somewhat understand why people who aren't of the same faith as me are for closed borders. I cannot understand how someone can call themselves a Christian and be ok with a universal denial of people attempting to flee countries of war. "'For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me'. Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' And the King Will answer the, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'" (Matthew 25:35-40). Followers of Christ are not called to live in fear. We are called to love others regardless of what they look like.

As for people who don't hold the same beliefs as me but still love this country that we are blessed to call home. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" (Emma Lazarus, the quote on the statue of liberty).


First we take care of our family and neighbors, then the "huddled masses" who truly want to be Americans. We do not need refugees who are put in small towns, drain their budget, overcrowd their schools, and literally over run a small rural community.

We all come from immigrants. Turning away refugees and even people from other countries that are in desperate need of help is not an idea that is rational to me.


Most of these people could be helped cheaper and easier in safe zones in/near their own country. Then when things settled down in their own country they could return home.

Feel free to reply and tell me I'm stupid and hate America though.
I am very much a Christian, an Orthodox Anglican; I am far from perfect, but I keep trying. Years ago my wife and I were at a retreat with members of our then Episcopal Church and an official of the diocise starting talking in favor of so called 'social justice'. I saw the handwriting on the wall and left the Episcopal Church, with many others, and went to the continuing Anglican Church; I never looked back.
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post #6396 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 05:38 PM
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or we could always borrow more cash from China and give it to the middle east or back to the poor in China. How that makes any seance to anyone is beyond me. Until we fix ourselves there is no need to try and save the world.
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post #6397 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 05:38 PM
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apollothedog quote:

"They won't be on welfare forever, because we kick them out if they do that, unlike people born here or who come here illegally under the radar.”

What are you basing this statement on? How could we kick them out? Do you think the political will to do that exists? Where would they go when they’re kicked out--wouldn’t the same conditions you are talking about as a reason for letting them in still exist? Once they have kids born in the US what do we do?
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post #6398 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan j. View Post
I could not disagree more! The best way to help them is to stay out of their world and force them to reconcile the problems they live with themselves. They can put their problem solving skills to work! The US is very close to the point where we have too many in the cart and not enough to pull....
I feel a little like this with our illegal immigrant problem. The people who come here are the ones with the drive, the ability and incentive to work really hard to improve their lives....what would happen if those energetic people who want a better life had to stay in their own communities--perhaps they would use that energy and desire to improve their living conditions to solve the government and societal problems their own country faces?
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post #6399 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by alan j. View Post
I could not disagree more! The best way to help them is to stay out of their world and force them to reconcile the problems they live with themselves. They can put their problem solving skills to work! The US is very close to the point where we have too many in the cart and not enough to pull. Their is always a place for skilled workers but the foreign workers usually drive the labor cost down and many times at the expense of American workers job.
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I agree that non intervention was easier and probably better, but that wasn't the route we took for many reasons, many of which are from WWI and even before.

Letting them sort it out themselves would be great, except the world isn't separate anymore. Even if it was JUST the middle east involved and not the west / far east, other countries would try to gain opportunity and influence and it'd be a mess with the other countries, meanwhile we'd still be watching genocide and having this debate, just without our military involved.

I heard about the Disney lay off, and they're abusing the system. Police the corporation better, don't blame the workers (who are Indians here on work visas and not even refugees) however those highly skilled professionals probably have other opportunities in the field. Working for a multinational in IT is about the best resume and job market combo there is.

The US has its issues, but the not enough resources one isn't it. Distribution of resources, school that doesn't train for the jobs we need, funding and taxing based on the short term instead of the long term, and a host of others. I'd give up that $5 billion dollar submarine we're going to build to support 20 or 50 thousand refugees facing genocide until they get on their feet. Would you? Why not?

@melbrod part of the condition of immigrating here legally is obtaining a job, failure to do so means the visa gets revoked. It's a low level judicial matter, pretty much invisible. Just like the kids have to go to school. As for where they go, sometimes they get sent back to better areas of the same country, sometimes to other countries willing to take them. As for kids and anchor babies, they usually go with the parents though they can stay since they have US citizenship.
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post #6400 of 6845 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apollothedog View Post

The US has its issues, but the not enough resources one isn't it....

@melbrod part of the condition of immigrating here legally is obtaining a job, failure to do so means the visa gets revoked. It's a low level judicial matter, pretty much invisible. Just like the kids have to go to school. As for where they go, sometimes they get sent back to better areas of the same country, sometimes to other countries willing to take them. As for kids and anchor babies, they usually go with the parents though they can stay since they have US citizenship.
With almost 20 trillion dollars in debt already..lack of resources is a definite concern--https://www.thebalance.com/the-u-s-d...so-big-3305778

If this is an emergency situation, how many of these people can get jobs--> visas to stay here in time to give them relief? If other countries are willing to take them in or if there is a safe place in their own country for them to go to--why not now?

Many of our illegal immigrants are people overstay their visas (30-40%)..we don’t do such a good job of enforcing that now. How would that change in the future?
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