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post #476 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 05:30 PM
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can I get a show of hands?

Who here gets automatic pay raises? Pelosi seems to think it's ok, but not for us:

WASHINGTON Congress' automatic pay raises are in little immediate danger of being scrapped for good, even with the economy slumping and millions of Americans unemployed. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday would not commit to holding a vote on a bill to do away with the annual cost-of-living increases.

In so doing, lawmakers defeated a Senate measure to abolish the automatic pay hikes and force them into the deep discomfort of casting actual votes to give themselves raises.
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post #477 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Who here gets automatic pay raises? Pelosi seems to think it's ok, but not for us:

WASHINGTON Congress' automatic pay raises are in little immediate danger of being scrapped for good, even with the economy slumping and millions of Americans unemployed. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday would not commit to holding a vote on a bill to do away with the annual cost-of-living increases.

In so doing, lawmakers defeated a Senate measure to abolish the automatic pay hikes and force them into the deep discomfort of casting actual votes to give themselves raises.
Not me.. zero pay raise this year.

Maybe Pelosi should give up her 'private' jet, paid for by us.
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post #478 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 09:18 PM
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Not me.. zero pay raise this year.

Maybe Pelosi should give up her 'private' jet, paid for by us.
DR - PLEASE, you of all people --- get your facts straight, PLEASE!!! First of all, Pelosi only uses the planes about once a month - look it up - many congresspeople (both parties) make use of this perc WEEKLY, and really should not. Secondly, this rule of travel was made by G.W. Bush, and the reason was very intelligent (and I use that term while grimacing!)... After 9/11, with Cheney hiding in a bunker, and GWB making camera cameos, it was realized that the Speaker is 3rd in line to the presidency, and therefore the "office" needs to be as protected as the Pres and VP, in case of disaster. It is quite logical, and was/is not her choice. If you check all the records and facts, you will see that she does not use these flights for personal or "political" reasons, only affairs of state. This misanthropic, mysogenistic BS really is over the top. Stick to curmudgeonly.
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post #479 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 10:27 PM
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i completely agree that she should use military aircraft. The problem is not that. Read the emails from her staff sent directly to the military. She was booking EVERY weekend and then canceling when she couldnt get the G5 (42 seat plane) because she didnt want to use the smaller jet allocated to her (12 seater) because it needed to refuel.

My BG is in the CG Aviation and it takes a LOT of money and crew to operate a military flight. Whenever she is making these reservations, the have a duty crew that has to drive in, people that come in to cook meals, etc. Read the memo's from the military asking if the speaker actually had any attempt to make these bookings because of her frequent last minute cancellations.

The previous speaker never had this problem with the military. If you are going to book it- they want you to use it. Does taht mean cancellations cant occur? of course not... but clearly she was going outside the norm. Thats why this is a problem.
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post #480 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 12:14 AM
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i completely agree that she should use military aircraft. The problem is not that. Read the emails from her staff sent directly to the military. She was booking EVERY weekend and then canceling when she couldnt get the G5 (42 seat plane) because she didnt want to use the smaller jet allocated to her (12 seater) because it needed to refuel.

My BG is in the CG Aviation and it takes a LOT of money and crew to operate a military flight. Whenever she is making these reservations, the have a duty crew that has to drive in, people that come in to cook meals, etc. Read the memo's from the military asking if the speaker actually had any attempt to make these bookings because of her frequent last minute cancellations.

The previous speaker never had this problem with the military. If you are going to book it- they want you to use it. Does taht mean cancellations cant occur? of course not... but clearly she was going outside the norm. Thats why this is a problem.
Thanks - this situation only occurred for a brief time, while the protocol was being worked out. However, if you check the entire schedule, congressmen are still doing this on a regular basis, just in case they need a ride. Pelosi does not. They are all being schooled on the proper protocols, thank goodness.
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post #481 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 09:51 AM
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i dont know that i would go that far. Congressmen can use military flights for congressional delegations. But they are NOT all booking up every weekend to fly here and there just in case because they arent entitled to military shuttle. Only Pelosi is.

Judicial Watch Uncovers Documents Detailing Pelosi's Repeated Requests for Military Travel | Judicial Watch
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post #482 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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DR - PLEASE, you of all people --- get your facts straight, PLEASE!!! First of all, Pelosi only uses the planes about once a month - look it up - many congresspeople (both parties) make use of this perc WEEKLY, and really should not. Secondly, this rule of travel was made by G.W. Bush, and the reason was very intelligent (and I use that term while grimacing!)... After 9/11, with Cheney hiding in a bunker, and GWB making camera cameos, it was realized that the Speaker is 3rd in line to the presidency, and therefore the "office" needs to be as protected as the Pres and VP, in case of disaster. It is quite logical, and was/is not her choice. If you check all the records and facts, you will see that she does not use these flights for personal or "political" reasons, only affairs of state. This misanthropic, mysogenistic BS really is over the top. Stick to curmudgeonly.
she/they should fly commercial like the rest of us shmucks. Especially since she is what - third - in line for command? I betcha then we'd see some improvements in commercial air travel - and what.. all the security protocols with sheeple stripping down for anal exam to get through the gate are suddenly not good enough?
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post #483 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 10:17 AM
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Hell, I don't like this either, But on the grounds of national security, Im all for it. In a post 911 world, 3rd in power is not too far away.
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post #484 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Hell, I don't like this either, But on the grounds of national security, Im all for it. In a post 911 world, 3rd in power is not too far away.
her being in power would more of a national security issue - let her, especially, fly commercial... what, not good enough?
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post #485 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 10:23 AM
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her being in power would more of a national security issue
LOL...you have a point there...
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post #486 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 12:25 PM
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Judicial Watch was completely WRONG in their report. They misquoted and misrepresented - and offered "e-mails" and things which simply DID NOT exist. The young man who did the reporting was grossly mistaken, and the report was bull. Here is just one article related to this - there are many: Newsvine - Judicial Watch Uncovers Documents Detailing Pelosi's Repeated Requests for Military Travel

I'm not a huge fan of Pelosi, but I am a very huge fan of accuracy and truth, not innuendo and smear. We really don't need that garbage in our world right now, and the US should be at the forefront of trying to get real, and focus on issues that truly do impact the planet.
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post #487 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not a huge fan of Pelosi, but I am a very huge fan of accuracy and truth, not innuendo and smear. We really don't need that garbage in our world right now, and the US should be at the forefront of trying to get real, and focus on issues that truly do impact the planet.
that's if we aren't run into the ground and bankrupted and reduced to second world status.
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post #488 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 01:09 PM
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whenever I am having a stressful day......

I think of how smart and eloquent Nobama's voters think he is...well, at least with his teleprompter

YouTube - Obama without his teleprompter
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post #489 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 01:24 PM
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I think of how smart and eloquent Nobama's voters think he is...well, at least with his teleprompter

YouTube - Obama without his teleprompter
Oh, you mean he is human? Come on. This is where it starts to get ridiculous. This is trivial and a diversion from what really matters.

With or without a teleprompter, pound for pound, he is more well spoken than any president we have had since Reagan and then Kennedy.
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post #490 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, you mean he is human? Come on. This is where it starts to get ridiculous. This is trivial and a diversion from what really matters.

With or without a teleprompter, pound for pound, he is more well spoken than any president we have had since Reagan and then Kennedy.
credit to the teleprompters - Obama is consistent in his messages. Various radio hosts have pulled clips of speeches - in context - and from campaign to now he is very consistent, almost to the word. Same scary message to me - but at least he is consistent.
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post #491 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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I think of how smart and eloquent Nobama's voters think he is...well, at least with his teleprompter

YouTube - Obama without his teleprompter
yeah...

consider there are several George Bush websites dedicated to 'Bushisms' - his various blunders and slaughtering of the language.. but that's ok... it's Bush.

I really think there is some element of vanity to Obama's strict reliance on teleprompters - he does not want to blunder speeches and be the target of ridicule.
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post #492 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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look out high income earners (not me) - you all have targets on your backs...

"Barack Obama has written two famous, widely read books of autobiography -- "Dreams from My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope." Let me introduce his third, a book that will touch everyone's life: "A New Era of Responsibility: Renewing America's Promise. The President's Budget and Fiscal Preview" (Government Printing Office, 141 pages, $26; free on the Web). This is the U.S. budget for laymen, and it's a must read."

The Obama Rosetta Stone - WSJ.com

excerpts:
Figure 9
"The one [chart] on page 11[Figure 9] is attributed to "Piketty and Saez.""

"Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, French economists, are rock stars of the intellectual left. Their specialty is "earnings inequality" and "wealth concentration.""

"As described in Mr. Obama's budget, these two economists have shown that by the end of 2004, the top 1% of taxpayers "took home" more than 22% of total national income. This trend, Fig. 9 notes, began during the Reagan presidency, skyrocketed through the Clinton years, dipped after George Bush beat Al Gore, then marched upward. Widening its own definition of money-grubbers, the budget says the top 10% of households "held" 70% of total wealth."

"Turn to page five of Mr. Obama's federal budget, and one may read these commentaries on the top 1% datum:

"While middle-class families have been playing by the rules, living up to their responsibilities as neighbors and citizens, those at the commanding heights of our economy have not."

"Prudent investments in education, clean energy, health care and infrastructure were sacrificed for huge tax cuts for the wealthy and well-connected."

"There's nothing wrong with making money, but there is something wrong when we allow the playing field to be tilted so far in the favor of so few. . . . It's a legacy of irresponsibility, and it is our duty to change it.""


"The "top 1%" isn't just going to pay for these policies. Many of them would assent to that. The rancorous language used to describe these taxpayers makes it clear that as a matter of public policy they will be made to "pay for" the fact of their wealth -- no matter how many of them worked honestly and honorably to produce it. No Democratic president in 60 years has been this explicit."

anyway, on and on it goes...
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post #493 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 03:34 PM
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yeah...

consider there are several George Bush websites dedicated to 'Bushisms' - his various blunders and slaughtering of the language.. but that's ok... it's Bush.

I really think there is some element of vanity to Obama's strict reliance on teleprompters - he does not want to blunder speeches and be the target of ridicule.
I totally disagree with your assessment.

When he was at the religious debate in LA with McCain is when I first noticed that he is one who thinks very thoroughly through things and is methodical about it. His answers at that debate were totally on the spot and showed that his analytical thinking was tied very closely with his desire to communicate very clearly. Since, I have watched him dozens of times in the same situation and he does the same thing. Not to mention that he probably is very mindful of wanting to restore credibility and respectability to the office.

To reduce it to ego just reveals how incredibly cynical you have become - which is a shame.

As for Bush, he created the problem of being ridiculed. Its not like people just decided one day to try to pick him apart and find any kind of slip up. He did it constantly and revealed that he is just not a very good speaker or reader while speaking.

This crap about Obama is a feeble attempt to sling mud at something in which he quite obviously stands head and shoulders above most - and his opponents resent him for it. It reveals more about those who focus on it than it does about Obama because everyone knows its not an accurate representation of him.

With Bush, it was funny because it was consistently true of him. Although it wasnt really funny
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post #494 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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I totally disagree with your assessment.

When he was at the religious debate in LA with McCain is when I first noticed that he is one who thinks very thoroughly through things and is methodical about it. His answers at that debate were totally on the spot and showed that his analytical thinking was tied very closely with his desire to communicate very clearly. Since, I have watched him dozens of times in the same situation and he does the same thing. Not to mention that he probably is very mindful of wanting to restore credibility and respectability to the office.

To reduce it to ego just reveals how incredibly cynical you have become - which is a shame.

As for Bush, he created the problem of being ridiculed. Its not like people just decided one day to try to pick him apart and find any kind of slip up. He did it constantly and revealed that he is just not a very good speaker or reader while speaking.

This crap about Obama is a feeble attempt to sling mud at something in which he quite obviously stands head and shoulders above most - and his opponents resent him for it. It reveals more about those who focus on it than it does about Obama because everyone knows its not an accurate representation of him.

With Bush, it was funny because it was consistently true of him. Although it wasnt really funny
well first of all, I said I suspect some element of vanity to using teleprompters - not totally due to ego - some element. I still suspect that.

And it's ok for a nation to ridicule the standing president - when it's Bush - but verboten now that it's Obama.. I see... . double standard, no?

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well first of all, I said I suspect some element of vanity to using teleprompters - not totally due to ego - some element. I still suspect that.

And it's ok for a nation to ridicule the standing president - when it's Bush - but verbotim now that it's Obama.. I see... . double standard, no?
No that is not at all what I am saying. I don't have a problem with people ridiculing him either - but it is absurd when he is being ridiculed in an area that he clearly excels in. It seems wholly immature in that context.

If he regularly made mistakes and was not so well spoken it would be notable. But bringing it up in light of his obvious talent, just shows a certain level of jealousy, desperation and immaturity.
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post #496 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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No that is not at all what I am saying. I don't have a problem with people ridiculing him either - but it is absurd when he is being ridiculed in an area that he clearly excels in. It seems wholly immature in that context.

If he regularly made mistakes and was not so well spoken it would be notable. But bringing it up in light of his obvious talent, just shows a certain level of jealousy, desperation and immaturity.
me - I don't care - really - he wants to use a teleprompter, fine.. overall he does speak well. Some speeches are more inspiring than others.. but he does orate well. Fine. I think maybe when he does blunder because of the high expectations of him it does catch a lot of attention.. he set the bar very high now he can't stumble.
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post #497 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 03:55 PM
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"There's nothing wrong with making money, but there is something wrong when we allow the playing field to be tilted so far in the favor of so few. . . . It's a legacy of irresponsibility, and it is our duty to change it.""[/I]
Seems pretty damned reasonable to me. It is one thing to achieve success and reap the benefits and another to then at that point, exploit others and the system in order to multiply it.

That is what is being addressed here. Not legitimate, massive monetary success itself.
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post #498 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 04:01 PM
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me - I don't care - really - he wants to use a teleprompter, fine.. overall he does speak well. Some speeches are more inspiring than others.. but he does orate well. Fine. I think maybe when he does blunder because of the high expectations of him it does catch a lot of attention.. he set the bar very high now he can't stumble.
Its only others that have that expectation, not himself. He has already proven quite clearly that he is openly fallible - "I screwed up"

He also acknowledged multiple times in his campaign and once or twice since the inauguration, he is going to make mistakes, he is human and he expects it. This is not a sign of ego.

I do gather that he wants very much to gain and maintain respect for the office itself however, very much in line with how George Washington approached it - making every attempt to stay above reproach and honorable.
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post #499 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Seems pretty damned reasonable to me. It is one thing to achieve success and reap the benefits and another to then at that point, exploit others and the system in order to multiply it.

That is what is being addressed here. Not legitimate, massive monetary success itself.
so all top 1% earners are crooked? Bill Gates? to the gallows with you you evil billionaire... Warren Buffet? you evil billionaire, you will pay....

I mean where does it stop? so an entire group of earners is demonized by virtue of their wealth.

The Bernie Madoff's of the world who truly exploited others need to pay for their criminal acts - tried in a court of law and duly sentenced if guilty. Where is the SEC in all this? Where are the regulators like, say, Barney Frank? The 'system' has been complicit because they all benefit at our expense. Something tells me it only applies to the top 1% not in bed with the government or government sponsored entities or thier agents.

This is a dangerous precedent for a capitalist system. Stress capitalist. Not that there should be no rule of law - there should be, but dont' target an entire group. And then once the precedent is set, what is to stop them from steadily lowering the bar - top 1%, top 5%, top 20%.... see where this goes?
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post #500 of 6919 (permalink) Old 03-13-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
so all top 1% earners are crooked? Bill Gates? to the gallows with you you evil billionaire... Warren Buffet? you evil billionaire, you will pay....

I mean where does it stop? so an entire group of earners is demonized by virtue of their wealth.

The Bernie Madoff's of the world who truly exploited others need to pay for their criminal acts - tried in a court of law and duly sentenced if guilty. Where is the SEC in all this? Where are the regulators like, say, Barney Frank? The 'system' has been complicit because they all benefit at our expense. Something tells me it only applies to the top 1% not in bed with the government or government sponsored entities or thier agents.

This is a dangerous precedent for a capitalist system. Stress capitalist. Not that there should be no rule of law - there should be, but dont' target an entire group. And then once the precedent is set, what is to stop them from steadily lowering the bar - top 1%, top 5%, top 20%.... see where this goes?
I didnt say that DR. But based on the statistics you presented, it is clear that the portion of that 1% that are corrupt, are capable of FAR REACHING effects on others because of the amount of wealth being manipulated.

And what is to stop them from steadily lowering the bar? Well my guess is that it stops with the people who are uselessly paranoid about it.
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