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post #26 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 07:08 PM
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smell ya later...

Lol...

Im never one to rejoice in another's demise. But somehow this has a very different odor.

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post #27 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Lol...

Im never one to rejoice in another's demise. But somehow this has a very different odor.

the fall guy.... he took a big one for the gipper - wonder what he got in exchange... hmmmm some money shuffled to an offshore account?
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post #28 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ChloesDad View Post
Here's another really interesting article:

Relax: There Will Be No Depression
reading about what people went through in Weimar Germany and Argentina and Mexico during currency crises is very appropriate. And Zimbabwe - everyone in Zimbabwe is a millionaire!!! but it takes 10million to buy eggs there.
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post #29 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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post #30 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 08:01 PM
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So I would have thought that you guys would have been in the more insightful 69% of the US that approves of Obama. What am I ...errr...are you missing here?
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post #31 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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So I would have thought that you guys would have been in the more insightful 69% of the US that approves of Obama. What am I ...errr...are you missing here?
hmmm? who's you guys? I DO NOT approve of Obama and the direction the Congress is going (predictably). But what's new - I haven't changed much my view since the other political threads we had going. The pork-filled "bailout", aka a trillion dollar spending package on the backs of the taxpayers, will not work. It's delaying the real pain until later - hopefully much later after I'm gone. Poor kids/grandkids.

add: where's the change? this is just more same ole same ole big government spending, bigger government, government control.... so its seems that 69% agree with this direction? I am surprised and disappointed in America.

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post #32 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 08:56 AM
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What are your thoughts?

Have my head stuck in a book about religion and politics. Wondering what others think about the following

Luker, K. (1984) 'the fact of being the only animal gifted with intellect means that humans should use that intellect to solve the problems of human existence'
or are there 'certain areas [which] are, or should be, sacrosanct, beyond the reach of human intervention'
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post #33 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
The pork-filled "bailout", aka a trillion dollar spending package on the backs of the taxpayers, will not work.
Talk about pork-filled....just some numbers in case anybody missed it:

$400 million for global warming research

$2.4 billion for carbon capture projects

$650 million for digital TV conversion coupons

$150 million for the Smithsonian

$1 billion for Amtrak

And then there are billions more for increased food stamps, child care, and other entitlements that have nothing to do with stimulating the economy.

The economy is in shambles and we are spending money on this crap......good grief.....These things do have their importance in society but not at a time like this. I would think others agree this stuff could go on the back burner for now until we get the American people on their feet again.

Just my .02

Michael

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post #34 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 09:33 AM
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PORK-U-LOUS! Porkulous! porkulous! haha

Its insane... blatently obvious that anything the dems have wanted to pass (even when they've controlled congress) but not been able to for years is being shoved under our noses in the guise of STIMULUS. Its bs! outrageous! You can bet if the republicans were doing this we would be skewered.

What the heck does STD prevention do to STIMULATE the economy? WHAT!? Its utter crap. What will TV conversion coupons or $ to the smithsonian do to stimulate the economy? TELL ME.

Those of you crying tax cuts for the middle class! Where are your precious tax cuts? Where are they? The democrats you put in office are putting STD's and museums ... thier own pet projects instead of YOUR tax rebates.

If they really wanted to stimulate the economy they would SLASH our corporate taxes that are among the highest in the world like Ireland has done. They would SLASH or SUSPEND income taxes ...

They would listen to the 2 professors in Columbia University that I think have been the only two to actually come up with a REAL solution to the subprime mortgage crisis and the cost is about 9 billion a FRACTION of what went into TARP.
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post #35 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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michael, clipclop

in a way I am GLAD the Dems are doing this as a Dem majority and the Republicans are on record as voting against it 100%. So this is a Dem thang and everything that spawns from it in the future.

recall my past posts in the 'other' thread about the sheer amount of the debt - trillions have become so mind boggling that no one cares...

oh oh... talk radio this morning, someone played a clip of a lady I think she was dealing with someone wanting to repo her car or something - so there's an exchange of words, but it ends with something like "we're not [rich], but we will be because we got Barack Obama"...

so now replace the old "Got Jesus?" bumper stickers with "We got Obama"... yee ha

beam me up

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post #36 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 11:31 AM
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I would be glad if this bs spending package were pinned on the Democrats (putting Repubs in a comparative good light) if only I had any confidence that programs which don't work would then be cancelled--but once in the budget, always in the budget. We'll have these cock-a-mamie ideas hung around our necks forever.
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post #37 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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and to be fair, the W administration over 8 years spent like drunken sailors at whore town happy hour. The W administration (includes Congress which is made up of both parties) singlehandedly drove up the debt to astronomical levels setting not one, but two historical records: the highest debt ever and the fastest rise in debt ever. It's just big government as usual; different clowns same circus. Nothing has changed - that is what is amazing.
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post #38 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 12:20 PM
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My brother sent me this by e-mail. I found the statistics interesting, but don't know if they're true. Can't decide if the second is funny or not. Might depend on your viewpoint.


Interesting Statistics


Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law,
St. Paul, Minnesota, points out facts of 2008 Presidential election:


Number of States won by:
Democrats: 19
Republicans: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Democrats: 580,000
Republicans: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Democrats: 127 million
Republicans: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Democrats: 13.2
Republicans: 2.1

Professor Olson adds:
"In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won by Republicans
was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in
government-owned tenements and living off various forms of
government welfare.

Professor Olson believes the United States is now somewhere
between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's
definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's
population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.


__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Economic Stimulus
This year, taxpayers will receive an Economic Stimulus Payment. This is a very exciting new program that I will explain using the Q and A format:

Q. What is an Economic Stimulus Payment?
A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q. Where will the government get this money?
A. From taxpayers.

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?
A. Only a smidgen.

Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A. Shut up.

Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:
If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

If you spend it on gasoline, it will go to the Arabs.

If you purchase a computer, it will go to India .

If you purchase fruit and vegetables, it will go to Mexico, Honduras , and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).

If you buy a car, it will go to Japan .

If you purchase useless crap, it will go to Taiwan .

And none of it will help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America . You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer(domestic ONLY), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses still in the US.
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post #39 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J View Post
Have my head stuck in a book about religion and politics. Wondering what others think about the following

Luker, K. (1984) 'the fact of being the only animal gifted with intellect means that humans should use that intellect to solve the problems of human existence'
or are there 'certain areas [which] are, or should be, sacrosanct, beyond the reach of human intervention'
I think this is a difficult question and one that biology in particular is dealing with, more than most sciences.

Im not as much concerned that there are sacrosanct areas as much as I am concerned that we are tinkering with dangerous stuff and could either a) make a terrible, unforeseen mistake or b) individuals with malice and disregard for their own safety, will unleash something intentionally on mankind.
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post #40 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 12:35 PM
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Or is solving the problems of human existence with our unique (??) intellect like trying to lift oneself up by one's own hair??

Using the word "off-limits" instead of "sacrosanct" takes the idea of religious taboo out of the equation and leaves the topic open for discussion.

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post #41 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
michael, clipclop

in a way I am GLAD the Dems are doing this as a Dem majority and the Republicans are on record as voting against it 100%. So this is a Dem thang and everything that spawns from it in the future.
Dobermansrule-

Only one more point to make about this being a "Dem thang", even though it's on record that all Rep's voted against it......This is the thing....no matter what the damage done, it's always going to be W's fault in the end. Even after The Great One's term has come to a close (8 yrs), everything that has and that will possibly happen will still be blamed on Bush.

Oh well....guess I will just buckle up and hang on because this is going to be a wild ride.

Michael

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post #42 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 01:22 PM
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Well thats because it is all W's fault. I broke a nail this morning. GW did it! I swearz!
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post #43 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 03:39 PM
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Or is solving the problems of human existence with our unique (??) intellect like trying to lift oneself up by one's own hair??

Using the word "off-limits" instead of "sacrosanct" takes the idea of religious taboo out of the equation and leaves the topic open for discussion.
True, it would remove religious taboo's but the question is framed around religion and politics. What role if any should religion play in humankinds efforts to improve human existance through science and technology? Or to put it another way should limits be placed on science and technology in view of religious teachings?
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post #44 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Angry senator wants pay cap on Wall Street 'idiots' - CNN.com
Holy Crap..... it's happening and fast..

ever watch horse races - how gate goes up and off they go like an explosion.. or bull riding - the bull is dancing and squirming a raring to go, gate goes up and BAM off it goes....

I knew it.. I have a new saying ITCS (It's the Congress Stupid).. these guys are not wasting anytime, I'll give them that. Any wacky crazy liberal left brain fart idea is all of a sudden fair game.
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post #45 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 04:28 PM
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True, it would remove religious taboo's but the question is framed around religion and politics. What role if any should religion play in humankinds efforts to improve human existance through science and technology? Or to put it another way should limits be placed on science and technology in view of religious teachings?

Whose religion? What teachings, and then whose interpretation?

Things like this need to fall under the scrutiny of philosophy, ethics and logic, NOT religion. It is my own assessment that most religious ethical fundamentals are echoed in most strictly ethical (non-religious) systems and that these ethical standards cross most sectarian boundaries.

I know that there are still major issues that specific religions address but I don't think that it is a good idea to start dictating to the world on account of the beliefs of a few. We should live according to our religious faiths/myths and pray/hope that the world as a whole will gain a clearer, collective vision that is universally revealed/understood as THE truth.

So far, philosophy and ethics are at the epicenter of human, collective understanding of truth - with overlaps of religious faith here and there. It is really tricky because many faiths (not all of them) seem to hold that theirs is "the" truth.
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post #46 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 05:36 PM
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AJ, do you not have any thoughts on this?
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post #47 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 05:48 PM
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AJ, do you not have any thoughts on this?
Its nearing 11pm with me so my thoughts are going to be formulated over night with the aid of an electric blanket! I shall certainly post something tomorrow.
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post #48 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 06:04 PM
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Just received this in an e-mail. What is your opinion of it?

THE ISLAMIZATION OF EUROPE

Written by Geert Wilders

Wednesday, 28 January 2009

I think it is a dangerous mixture of legitimate concerns and ignorant fear. Some of these are clearly "fanatics", hard-liner Muslims ("Moslem" spelling is not well liked in Islam btw.) but the majority of Muslims are peace loving people that have historically proven to be less militant and more accepting of other faiths than Christianity has.

I get the sense that whoever wrote this is seriously in need of better historical and cultural information. This assessment is horribly one sided and filled with a fear of something that doesn't exist on the level presented.
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post #49 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 06:17 PM
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HISTORICALLY, Islam has been more accepting of other faiths than Christianity--not so sure about now.
I found it difficult to find the Koran's oft-claimed beauty when I read it--but I HAVE heard that it needs to be read in its original language to be appreciated.
It did seem to me that it often said things like, "if you don't do this, God will punish you." Notice the emphasis on waiting for God's judgement, not assuming you can be the perfect judge now. I'm not seeing that attitude from the nastier groups of Islam.
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post #50 of 6863 (permalink) Old 01-31-2009, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by avalonandon View Post
Whose religion? What teachings, and then whose interpretation?

Things like this need to fall under the scrutiny of philosophy, ethics and logic, NOT religion. It is my own assessment that most religious ethical fundamentals are echoed in most strictly ethical (non-religious) systems and that these ethical standards cross most sectarian boundaries.

I know that there are still major issues that specific religions address but I don't think that it is a good idea to start dictating to the world on account of the beliefs of a few. We should live according to our religious faiths/myths and pray/hope that the world as a whole will gain a clearer, collective vision that is universally revealed/understood as THE truth.

So far, philosophy and ethics are at the epicenter of human, collective understanding of truth - with overlaps of religious faith here and there. It is really tricky because many faiths (not all of them) seem to hold that theirs is "the" truth.

I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by 'the truth', for me its a matter of live and let live, living your life according to your own moral compass/belief systems and allowing others to do the same, within reason and herein lies the difficulty.
Many religious practices/customs are morally abhorrent to me, the subservient position of women, the maltreatment of homosexuals and minorities being some examples. Afghanistan, Iran and fundamentalist Islam spring to mind when one hears of such abuses however I think itís important to remember that other religions have influenced, if not directly controlled, other societies. Almost every aspect of life in my own country including some of its polices/legislation was until relatively recently 'governed' by the Catholic Church, no divorce, media censorship, banning of contraceptives (I can still remember the news headlines when condoms were legalised), criminalisation of homosexuality being a few examples. There was a saying among Unionist's in Northern Ireland that 'Dublin Rule was Rome Rule' and to be honest they weren't far from the truth.
Hence I'm strongly for keeping a line firmly between religion and politics, to protect the 'minority form the tyranny of the majority'. However, having said that, I'm also strongly of the belief that religion is not above the law; acts deemed criminal should remain so even though many would consider them to be legitimate under their religion.
I agree with you that religious ethics are echoed in non religious ethical systems, and for me, that is where the line should be drawn.
Regarding the quote I used in my original post, using humankinds intellect to improve human existence, I'm of the opinion that it is ethic's which should govern these endeavours and legislation regarding them should be ethically and not religiously based, after all laws are there to govern us all regardless of what, if any, religious beliefs we hold.
I think the following quote taken from Obama's 'The audacity of hope' sums it up.
'If I am opposed to abortion for religious reasons and seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or invoke God's will and expect that argument to carry the day. If I want others to listen to me, then I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths'.
A.J is offline  
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avalonandon (01-31-2009)
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