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post #251 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 03:48 PM
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The 2% Illusion
Take everything they earn, and it still won't be enough.
WSJ

President Obama has laid out the most ambitious and expensive domestic agenda since LBJ, and now all he has to do is figure out how to pay for it. On Tuesday, he left the impression that we need merely end "tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans," and he promised that households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime."


APThis is going to be some trick. Even the most basic inspection of the IRS income tax statistics shows that raising taxes on the salaries, dividends and capital gains of those making more than $250,000 can't possibly raise enough revenue to fund Mr. Obama's new spending ambitions.

Consider the IRS data for 2006, the most recent year that such tax data are available and a good year for the economy and "the wealthiest 2%." Roughly 3.8 million filers had adjusted gross incomes above $200,000 in 2006. (That's about 7% of all returns; the data aren't broken down at the $250,000 point.) These people paid about $522 billion in income taxes, or roughly 62% of all federal individual income receipts. The richest 1% -- about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 -- paid some $408 billion, or 39.9% of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22% of all reported U.S. income.

Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax. These combined increases won't come close to raising the hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue that Mr. Obama is going to need.

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But let's not stop at a 42% top rate; as a thought experiment, let's go all the way. A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That's less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable "dime" of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion.

Fast forward to this year (and 2010) when the Wall Street meltdown and recession are going to mean far few taxpayers earning more than $500,000. Profits are plunging, businesses are cutting or eliminating dividends, hedge funds are rolling up, and, most of all, capital nationwide is on strike. Raising taxes now will thus yield far less revenue than it would have in 2006.

Mr. Obama is of course counting on an economic recovery. And he's also assuming along with the new liberal economic consensus that taxes don't matter to growth or job creation. The truth, though, is that they do. Small- and medium-sized businesses are the nation's primary employers, and lower individual tax rates have induced thousands of them to shift from filing under the corporate tax system to the individual system, often as limited liability companies or Subchapter S corporations. The Tax Foundation calculates that merely restoring the higher, Clinton-era tax rates on the top two brackets would hit 45% to 55% of small-business income, depending on how inclusively "small business" is defined. These owners will find a way to declare less taxable income.

The bottom line is that Mr. Obama is selling the country on a 2% illusion. Unwinding the U.S. commitment in Iraq and allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire can't possibly pay for his agenda. Taxes on the not-so-rich will need to rise as well.

On that point, by the way, it's unclear why Mr. Obama thinks his climate-change scheme won't hit all Americans with higher taxes. Selling the right to emit greenhouse gases amounts to a steep new tax on most types of energy and, therefore, on all Americans who use energy. There's a reason that Charlie Rangel's Ways and Means panel, which writes tax law, is holding hearings this week on cap-and-trade regulation.

Mr. Obama is very good at portraying his agenda as nothing more than center-left pragmatism. But pragmatists don't ignore the data. And the reality is that the only way to pay for Mr. Obama's ambitions is to reach ever deeper into the pockets of the American middle class
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post #252 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:02 PM
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post #253 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:05 PM
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hey clipclop...you beat me to it...funny how the numbers work out...yet, 2 days ago, Obama pledged to start balancing the budget:

President Obama on Monday pledged to cut the federal deficit in half during his first term even though the first 30 days of his administration have been dominated by the passage of unprecedented spending programs.
Speaking to a bipartisan group of lawmakers in the East Room of the White House, Obama said in the opening remarks of the fiscal responsibility summit that the U.S. "cannot and will not sustain deficits like these without end."

"This will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we've long neglected," Obama said.

Lawmakers present said after the president's remarks that it appeared to be a preview of what they will hear when Obama makes his first address to a joint session of Congress. What's more, the president's pledges and warnings Monday were no doubt the opening salvo in the fight over his budget, which he will unveil Thursday.

The White House acknowledged that Obama sees the situation — spending to create jobs while at the same time promising to cut the deficit — as "push-pull," and Republicans continued to be highly critical of the president's economic policies.

Shortly before Obama convened the summit, the Republican National Committee blasted the event as a "fiscal farce."
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post #254 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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I want to bring this out again - very sobering...

Storms on the Horizon - Richard Fisher Speeches - News & Events - FRB Dallas
Richard W. Fisher (Federal Reserve)
Storms on the Horizon
Remarks before the Commonwealth Club of California
San Francisco, California
May 28, 2008

excerpts:
"I see a frightful storm brewing in the form of untethered government debt. I choose the words—“frightful storm”—deliberately to avoid hyperbole. Unless we take steps to deal with it, the long-term fiscal situation of the federal government will be unimaginably more devastating to our economic prosperity than the subprime debacle and the recent debauching of credit markets that we are now working so hard to correct."

"Doing deficit math is always a sobering exercise. It becomes an outright painful one when you apply your calculator to the long-run fiscal challenge posed by entitlement programs. Were I not a taciturn central banker, I would say the mathematics of the long-term outlook for entitlements, left unchanged, is nothing short of catastrophic.

Typically, critics ranging from the Concord Coalition to Ross Perot begin by wringing their collective hands over the unfunded liabilities of Social Security. A little history gives you a view as to why. Franklin Roosevelt originally conceived a social security system in which individuals would fund their own retirements through payroll-tax contributions. But Congress quickly realized that such a system could not put much money into the pockets of indigent elderly citizens ravaged by the Great Depression. Instead, a pay-as-you-go funding system was embraced, making each generation’s retirement the responsibility of its children.

Now, fast forward 70 or so years and ask this question: What is the mathematical predicament of Social Security today? Answer: The amount of money the Social Security system would need today to cover all unfunded liabilities from now on—what fiscal economists call the “infinite horizon discounted value” of what has already been promised recipients but has no funding mechanism currently in place—is $13.6 trillion, an amount slightly less than the annual gross domestic product of the United States."


"The good news is this Social Security shortfall might be manageable. While the issues regarding Social Security reform are complex, it is at least possible to imagine how Congress might find, within a $14 trillion economy, ways to wrestle with a $13 trillion unfunded liability. The bad news is that Social Security is the lesser of our entitlement worries. It is but the tip of the unfunded liability iceberg. The much bigger concern is Medicare, a program established in 1965, the same prosperous year that Bill Martin cautioned his Columbia University audience to be wary of complacency and storms on the horizon.

Medicare was a pay-as-you-go program from the very beginning, despite warnings from some congressional leaders—Wilbur Mills was the most credible of them before he succumbed to the pay-as-you-go wiles of Fanne Foxe, the Argentine Firecracker—who foresaw some of the long-term fiscal issues such a financing system could pose. Unfortunately, they were right.

Please sit tight while I walk you through the math of Medicare. As you may know, the program comes in three parts: Medicare Part A, which covers hospital stays; Medicare B, which covers doctor visits; and Medicare D, the drug benefit that went into effect just 29 months ago. The infinite-horizon present discounted value of the unfunded liability for Medicare A is $34.4 trillion. The unfunded liability of Medicare B is an additional $34 trillion. The shortfall for Medicare D adds another $17.2 trillion. The total? If you wanted to cover the unfunded liability of all three programs today, you would be stuck with an $85.6 trillion bill. That is more than six times as large as the bill for Social Security. It is more than six times the annual output of the entire U.S. economy.

Why is the Medicare figure so large? There is a mix of reasons, really. In part, it is due to the same birthrate and life-expectancy issues that affect Social Security. In part, it is due to ever-costlier advances in medical technology and the willingness of Medicare to pay for them. And in part, it is due to expanded benefits—the new drug benefit program’s unfunded liability is by itself one-third greater than all of Social Security’s.

Add together the unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security, and it comes to $99.2 trillion over the infinite horizon. Traditional Medicare composes about 69 percent, the new drug benefit roughly 17 percent and Social Security the remaining 14 percent.

I want to remind you that I am only talking about the unfunded portions of Social Security and Medicare. It is what the current payment scheme of Social Security payroll taxes, Medicare payroll taxes, membership fees for Medicare B, copays, deductibles and all other revenue currently channeled to our entitlement system will not cover under current rules. These existing revenue streams must remain in place in perpetuity to handle the “funded” entitlement liabilities. Reduce or eliminate this income and the unfunded liability grows. Increase benefits and the liability grows as well. "


"No combination of tax hikes and spending cuts, though, will change the total burden borne by current and future generations. For the existing unfunded liabilities to be covered in the end, someone must pay $99.2 trillion more or receive $99.2 trillion less than they have been currently promised. This is a cold, hard fact. The decision we must make is whether to shoulder a substantial portion of that burden today or compel future generations to bear its full weight."

"The warning signals have been flashing for years, but we find it easier to ignore them than to take action. Will we take the painful fiscal steps necessary to prevent the storm by reducing and eventually eliminating our fiscal imbalances? That depends on you.

I mean “you” literally. This situation is of your own creation. When you berate your representatives or senators or presidents for the mess we are in, you are really berating yourself. You elect them. You are the ones who let them get away with burdening your children and grandchildren rather than yourselves with the bill for your entitlement programs."
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post #255 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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well, I learn something new everyday.. our Canadian friends should be interested..

Financial Sense Online Market WrapUp with Chris Puplava 02.25.2009

"US President Barack Obama has signaled that Canada's oil sands industry should not be granted an exemption from strict regulations to limit emissions of greenhouse gases.

His stance could add to the already high costs of developing this vast resource which is increasingly regarded as one of North America's most secure sources of energy…"


"Canada is the biggest foreign supplier of oil to the US, and in recent years a growing share of that oil has been derived from the oil sands region of northern Alberta which are estimated to hold a massive 173 billion barrels of oil.

About 780,000 barrels of oil per day are produced from the Alberta oil sands and exported to the US. Canada currently sells about 60% of its oil sands output to US refiners…"


"While the goal of reducing the carbon footprint is a noble venture, Obama’s policies are likely to have unintended consequences. For example, who’s to say that instead of spending billions to meet possible future regulations on oil sands production that Canadian oil exporters don’t simply export their oil to China or other oil-starved countries?"

"In stark contrast to the U.S. policy shift of alienating the top crude exports to our country, China is acting more like a vulture and opportunist by utilizing the economic crisis to its advantage with their sizable foreign exchange reserves, picking off the weak to their advantage as the following articles illustrate."
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post #256 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:56 PM
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well, I learn something new everyday.. our Canadian friends should be interested..

Financial Sense Online Market WrapUp with Chris Puplava 02.25.2009

"US President Barack Obama has signaled that Canada's oil sands industry should not be granted an exemption from strict regulations to limit emissions of greenhouse gases.

His stance could add to the already high costs of developing this vast resource which is increasingly regarded as one of North America's most secure sources of energy…"


"Canada is the biggest foreign supplier of oil to the US, and in recent years a growing share of that oil has been derived from the oil sands region of northern Alberta which are estimated to hold a massive 173 billion barrels of oil.

About 780,000 barrels of oil per day are produced from the Alberta oil sands and exported to the US. Canada currently sells about 60% of its oil sands output to US refiners…"


"While the goal of reducing the carbon footprint is a noble venture, Obama’s policies are likely to have unintended consequences. For example, who’s to say that instead of spending billions to meet possible future regulations on oil sands production that Canadian oil exporters don’t simply export their oil to China or other oil-starved countries?"

"In stark contrast to the U.S. policy shift of alienating the top crude exports to our country, China is acting more like a vulture and opportunist by utilizing the economic crisis to its advantage with their sizable foreign exchange reserves, picking off the weak to their advantage as the following articles illustrate."
wow...30 days in and Obama is already throwing interceptions to China
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post #257 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 04:58 PM
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I need caffeine. Off to find another soda machine...and a candy bar.
I have a starbucks about 500 feet from my office
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post #258 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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some people are just never happy....
Iran slams Obama government at U.N.
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post #259 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 05:17 PM
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some people are just never happy....
Iran slams Obama government at U.N.
I thought Obama was promising change...I'm actually kind of amazed that Democrats aren't REALLY angry with Obama...he has walked away from his campaign promises altogether...it puzzles me...the blind belief...at what point do his followers start to question him? seriously, it's only been 30 DAYS and he has done nothing but harm and gone back on promises

actually, I am willing to concede that it has ONLY been 30 days...and that the judgement of a person shouldn't be so quick

but COME ON!!!!! LOL
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post #260 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 06:36 PM
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I'm sickened by this..absolutely sick. I really don't even feel like posting here.. but this is the end of "Democracy" as we know it.
I work in the construction industry specifically high end finish work and cabinetry. My clients are now the ones getting the higher tax rate while at the same time their tax deductions for charitable donations are getting cut by a third.
Meanwhile these same people tend to be a little older than me and their Medicare is getting nicked...all in the utopian dream of national health care.
Today I heard one radio personality say if your driving a pickup truck or a van, you're now unemployed.
For those of you that voted for this a$$ hat...your like Lemmings to the cliff.
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post #261 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 06:44 PM
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some truth to this...but where are his college transcripts? a preponderance of the evidence is plenty to convict...too many coincidences can lead to a pretty accurate conclusion...the only difference between us is that you are a fan of Obama and I am not...Allegory of the Cave (Plato)
Get real - Who in any race before this one has EVER been asked for his college transcripts? If this isn't desperation, I don't know what is. Not a single request was ever made for Hoover's, Roosevelt's, Truman's, Eisenhower's, Kennedy's, Johnson's, Nixon's, Ford's, Carter's, Reagan's, Clinton's, either Bush's (even though it was known widely that W was a horrendously poor and disinterested student, he was never actually called on it) - so WHY, all of a sudden, is this president's college transcript, as well as his birth certificate (another item never before bandied about), being called into question?

Let me assure you that Harvard, an institution which is 373 years old and has educated some of the most influential and innovative minds in the world, and which enjoys a very respectable reputation, would NOT tolerate someone making public declarations invoking their name and reputation if it were not true. I went to Harvard for a very brief period - 1 year, many years ago, and mostly for fun and novelty. If I went on TV and announced I was a Harvard alumnus, I guarantee you that someone would figure out it wasn't true. All the reporters and pundits have not been able to provide a single document - DOCUMENT - which refutes anything Obama and his family and people have said. Give it up - work on things that have some merit, and don't scream "I am a foot-stamping sore loser."

(and yes, I lean left in many areas - but I also am quite conservative, even "reactionary" about a few things. I am a complex, thinking person, thoughtful and well educated. My ideas, philosophies and ideals are not knee-jerk or rubber-stamped party lines. I think most of us here are way too intelligent and complicated for that.)

Last edited by lolonurse; 02-26-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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post #262 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 06:54 PM
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I'm sickened by this..absolutely sick. I really don't even feel like posting here.. but this is the end of "Democracy" as we know it.
I work in the construction industry specifically high end finish work and cabinetry. My clients are now the ones getting the higher tax rate while at the same time their tax deductions for charitable donations are getting cut by a third.
Meanwhile these same people tend to be a little older than me and their Medicare is getting nicked...all in the utopian dream of national health care.
Today I heard one radio personality say if your driving a pickup truck or a van, you're now unemployed.
For those of you that voted for this a$$ hat...your like Lemmings to the cliff.
I should not even be answering this, but really - if your clients are wealthy people, they don't really NEED Medicare, do they? And so far, nothing has gotten "nicked", has it? And as far as I can see, the entire construction industry has been hard hit. Maybe that's one reason why unions overwhelmingly voted FOR Obama and a change in the status quo. "The end of Democracy as we know it"??? Are you SERIOUS? After 35 days, or whatever it is?? Are you even old enough to remember or know anything about FDR, or studied about Linclon, or Jefferson, or the Industrial Revolution and the formation of labor unions? Radio "personalities" are just that - personalities - nothing more. They are not experts or leaders - just large mouths spewing foment. How is that useful?
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post #263 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 07:40 PM
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I should not even be answering this, but really - if your clients are wealthy people, they don't really NEED Medicare, do they? And so far, nothing has gotten "nicked", has it? And as far as I can see, the entire construction industry has been hard hit. Maybe that's one reason why unions overwhelmingly voted FOR Obama and a change in the status quo. "The end of Democracy as we know it"??? Are you SERIOUS? After 35 days, or whatever it is?? Are you even old enough to remember or know anything about FDR, or studied about Linclon, or Jefferson, or the Industrial Revolution and the formation of labor unions? Radio "personalities" are just that - personalities - nothing more. They are not experts or leaders - just large mouths spewing foment. How is that useful?
Deep breath here...and I more than likely won't be posting here again. Clearly you're right! I posted in the heat of the moment...and I guess you " Should not even be answering to this" My short reply to Medicare is that the people who need it are going to get nicked.....people who pay privately are going to loose federal funding to help private insurance companies ie driving them into going along with a bullshit national health care system that has never worked in any country, that I know of.
A small 2% tax increase, while at the same time reducing write offs on charitable donations (which by the way goes a long way in helping the homeless etc) for those that make $250,000 or more(read those that USED to be able to afford it) Gives little or no insentive for these same people too, start new businesses or, in my case, attach a new sun room or addition to their house, forget a custom built kitchen...for me those days are gone.
One of my personal friends used to be the CFO of fidelity. He used to donate tons of money to many different charity's. Even though the 'well' hasn't dried up he now needs too watch his finances more "clearly".
You're right the media can be biased! I would love to know where you're getting all of you clear, unbiased, insight from?

BTW.. I'm old enough to know the history and outcomes of all the people and situations you mentioned above regarding the industrial revolution...I guess this time were going to go green, fine with me if we still live in a democracy.
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post #264 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 07:51 PM
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Deep breath here...and I more than likely won't be posting here again. Clearly you're right! I posted in the heat of the moment...and I guess you " Should not even be answering to this" My short reply to Medicare is that the people who need it are going to get nicked.....people who pay privately are going to loose federal funding to help private insurance companies ie driving them into going along with a bullshit national health care system that has never worked in any country, that I know of.
A small 2% tax increase, while at the same time reducing write offs on charitable donations (which by the way goes a long way in helping the homeless etc) for those that make $250,000 or more(read those that USED to be able to afford it) Gives little or no insentive for these same people too, start new businesses or, in my case, attach a new sun room or addition to their house, forget a custom built kitchen...for me those days are gone.
One of my personal friends used to be the CFO of fidelity. He used to donate tons of money to many different charity's. Even though the 'well' hasn't dried up he now needs too watch his finances more "clearly".
You're right the media can be biased! I would love to know where you're getting all of you clear, unbiased, insight from?

BTW.. I'm old enough to know the history and outcomes of all the people and situations you mentioned above regarding the industrial revolution...I guess this time were going to go green, fine with me if we still live in a democracy.
Well Im just getting home and dont know what has transpired. But I do know that I hope you dont leave the discussion. We are all friends here and the disagreements are very respectful and malice towards one another is frowned upon by all. Some of us get riled up and upset, but it is not an anger at the individual (usually, lol) - but at the subject matter and the frustrations that arise when handling these difficult issues.

I have alot to say about the posts today and will speak up tomorrow when I am sane again. It is less to do about the content and more about the volume in that I want to be able to keep up and have time to process, research and listen appropriately to everything posted. At this pace, I for one cant possibly read all of that and digest it as quickly as it is being posted. And I want to be able to, very much so. And not for the sake of rebuttal either. I want to hear and learn everything I can personally, good bad or indifferent.

Ill elaborate tomorrow.
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post #265 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 08:14 PM
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Deep breath here...and I more than likely won't be posting here again. Clearly you're right! My short reply to Medicare is that the people who need it are going to get nicked.....people who pay privately are going to loose federal funding to help private insurance companies ie driving them into going along with a bullshit national health care system that has never worked in any country, that I know of.

BTW.. I'm old enough to know the history and outcomes of all the people and situations you mentioned above regarding the industrial revolution...I guess this time were going to go green, fine with me if we still live in a democracy.
Managed care case management and utilization/quality management was my business, before I was injured and disabled. So I also have a bit of knowledge about this. And I know quite a few people in Canada, the UK, Sweden, Norway and several other countries who would be quite surprised to learn that their national health care does not work. Germany has a very functional hybrid system. The French have a private but mandatory system which works very well because med school is free, and litigation is nearly non-existent. And this is just a sampling...They are all pretty pleased with it, over all. I think your information is flawed.

I am a person who lost my job-covered insurance due to my permanent disability, and now have to pay almost $900 per month for less coverage than I previously had. Here again, I can quite categorically state that I would be quite thrilled with a nationalized system wherein every citizen has the right to quality health care. I personally feel that a nation is only as healthy and successful as its citizens - for without citizens there is no country, and if the citizens are impoverished, under-educated, unwell and poorly nourished, then it can't be much of a country, can it? We mock countries which mistreat their citizens, yet, frankly, we do the same in a more benign way. Like a parent who is neglectful, yet not actively abusive.

We have some of the poorest stats in the industrialized world when it comes to math and sciences, language capability, infant mortality, murder, and SO much more. In order to be a healthier, stronger, more competitive nation, as large as we are, we NEED a strong and active centralized government. "A house divided cannot stand."
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post #266 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 08:46 PM
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One last thing as far as my profession is concerned/affected. Unions gravitate to those with the biggest 'earmarks' i:e "Rebuilding Americas Infrastructure."
A huge part of this bill is geared toward that! There's no private/non union company that can keep pace with the unions because too many hands are getting greased. I'm not part of a union nor will I ever be.
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post #267 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 08:55 PM
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Well, I'm off tomorrow morning to get PUPPY!!! "What a Scortcher", of bounced check fame, from Newbreeder. Wish us luck--about a 6 hour drive back with new puppy + Kip on board; it's been a long time since we've had a puppy around.

*note to self: must remember earplugs!* lol
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post #268 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 09:11 PM
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oh wow! I didnt know you were getting a puppiiiieeeeee!! awesome
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post #269 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 09:27 PM
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Managed care case management and utilization/quality management was my business, before I was injured and disabled. So I also have a bit of knowledge about this. And I know quite a few people in Canada, the UK, Sweden, Norway and several other countries who would be quite surprised to learn that their national health care does not work. Germany has a very functional hybrid system. The French have a private but mandatory system which works very well because med school is free, and litigation is nearly non-existent. And this is just a sampling...They are all pretty pleased with it, over all. I think your information is flawed.

I am a person who lost my job-covered insurance due to my permanent disability, and now have to pay almost $900 per month for less coverage than I previously had. Here again, I can quite categorically state that I would be quite thrilled with a nationalized system wherein every citizen has the right to quality health care. I personally feel that a nation is only as healthy and successful as its citizens - for without citizens there is no country, and if the citizens are impoverished, under-educated, unwell and poorly nourished, then it can't be much of a country, can it? We mock countries which mistreat their citizens, yet, frankly, we do the same in a more benign way. Like a parent who is neglectful, yet not actively abusive.

We have some of the poorest stats in the industrialized world when it comes to math and sciences, language capability, infant mortality, murder, and SO much more. In order to be a healthier, stronger, more competitive nation, as large as we are, we NEED a strong and active centralized government. "A house divided cannot stand."
Let's agree to disagree...yet you quote a republican while defending a socialist...I mean democratic president. Soon I won't be able to afford health insurance either due to the declining economy. I do, however know that his health plan is nothing short of being pathetic, rob peter to pay paul Economy be damned.

Last edited by hannah41; 02-26-2009 at 09:33 PM.
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post #270 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 08:00 AM
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......
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post #271 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 08:00 AM
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Get real - Who in any race before this one has EVER been asked for his college transcripts? If this isn't desperation, I don't know what is. Not a single request was ever made for Hoover's, Roosevelt's, Truman's, Eisenhower's, Kennedy's, Johnson's, Nixon's, Ford's, Carter's, Reagan's, Clinton's, either Bush's (even though it was known widely that W was a horrendously poor and disinterested student, he was never actually called on it) - so WHY, all of a sudden, is this president's college transcript, as well as his birth certificate (another item never before bandied about), being called into question?

Let me assure you that Harvard, an institution which is 373 years old and has educated some of the most influential and innovative minds in the world, and which enjoys a very respectable reputation, would NOT tolerate someone making public declarations invoking their name and reputation if it were not true. I went to Harvard for a very brief period - 1 year, many years ago, and mostly for fun and novelty. If I went on TV and announced I was a Harvard alumnus, I guarantee you that someone would figure out it wasn't true. All the reporters and pundits have not been able to provide a single document - DOCUMENT - which refutes anything Obama and his family and people have said. Give it up - work on things that have some merit, and don't scream "I am a foot-stamping sore loser."

(and yes, I lean left in many areas - but I also am quite conservative, even "reactionary" about a few things. I am a complex, thinking person, thoughtful and well educated. My ideas, philosophies and ideals are not knee-jerk or rubber-stamped party lines. I think most of us here are way too intelligent and complicated for that.)
whether they were actually "asked" to produce or not isn't the issue...the issue is that the transcripts were provided or allowed to surface by past candidates...well, all but Obama:

"For better or worse, voters have taken an interest in candidates' grades since 1999, when the New Yorker published President Bush's transcript at Yale and disclosed that he was a C student. Mr. Bush had never portrayed himself as a brain, but many were surprised to learn the next year that his opponent, Vice President Gore, did not do much better at Harvard despite his intellectual image. When Senator Kerry's transcript surfaced, reporters found that he actually had a slightly lower average at Yale than Mr. Bush did."

as for desperation, not really...just looking for some transparency...transcripts are protected...that is why nothing has surfaced other than confirmation by Harvard on his academic status...and I have said before that I don't think grades are always an accurate depiction of intelligence...my academic career was above average but not stellar yet, at almost 42 years old, I manage to head up an international IT company

I am not a fan of Obama...go figure, right LOL...but he is the President and I am trying to give him a chance...he is smart...he reads speeches very well (don't get me started on his teleprompter mishaps)...and I am hoping he has the best intentions for the people of the United States...but he and his Chicago criminal posse are stealing my money for the rescue of people and companies who couldn't seem to make an intelligent decision to save their lives...so, his credentials and decision-making process is up for question...and remember that I am not the only person starting to question things...his DISapproval rating has DOUBLED in the first 30 days...that is not good, especially for a President who had the second highest approval rating

I don't expect you to agree with a single thing I just said...and your post shows an almost koolaid-style blindness in not accepting at least some truth to what I say
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post #272 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 08:32 AM
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......
Just curious as to what .......means?
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post #273 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 08:36 AM
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Just curious as to what .......means?
could be that he double posted and wanted to erase one... but you can only edit and you have to enter a certain amount of characters- so some folks just put in ....'s to take up that space needed.
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post #274 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 09:00 AM
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could be that he double posted and wanted to erase one... but you can only edit and you have to enter a certain amount of characters- so some folks just put in ....'s to take up that space needed.
yep...hit the submit button but nothing happened....so I hit stop...then submit again...system tricked me
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post #275 of 6919 (permalink) Old 02-27-2009, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lolonurse View Post
Managed care case management and utilization/quality management was my business, before I was injured and disabled. So I also have a bit of knowledge about this. And I know quite a few people in Canada, the UK, Sweden, Norway and several other countries who would be quite surprised to learn that their national health care does not work. Germany has a very functional hybrid system. The French have a private but mandatory system which works very well because med school is free, and litigation is nearly non-existent. And this is just a sampling...They are all pretty pleased with it, over all. I think your information is flawed.

I am a person who lost my job-covered insurance due to my permanent disability, and now have to pay almost $900 per month for less coverage than I previously had. Here again, I can quite categorically state that I would be quite thrilled with a nationalized system wherein every citizen has the right to quality health care. I personally feel that a nation is only as healthy and successful as its citizens - for without citizens there is no country, and if the citizens are impoverished, under-educated, unwell and poorly nourished, then it can't be much of a country, can it? We mock countries which mistreat their citizens, yet, frankly, we do the same in a more benign way. Like a parent who is neglectful, yet not actively abusive.

We have some of the poorest stats in the industrialized world when it comes to math and sciences, language capability, infant mortality, murder, and SO much more. In order to be a healthier, stronger, more competitive nation, as large as we are, we NEED a strong and active centralized government. "A house divided cannot stand."
what *has* made America great - stand head and shoulders in history - is that her citizens have been given the opportunity to provide for themselves, to achieve their dreams, to prosper, to succeed in whatever fashion they individually define success... now, it is a "right" for everyone to get a government handout. We are becoming a big nanny state. Where the citizens should focus their frustration/anger is why things have changed so.. our government over the years have robbed us of what used to be our rights as Americans as I previously defined. That's the crux of my beef. The founders of our country revolted against England for piddly taxes - I mean come on. If we didn't have the revolution and stayed with England, we still would have been cut free eventually - point being founders of our country revolted for in my opinion a lot less than what we have to put up with today.
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