Doberman Pup Diarrhea- Food suggestions - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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Doberman Pup Diarrhea- Food suggestions

Hi, so my pup has been having stomach issues, breeder fed Purina puppy chow so we stuck to that for over a month or so and then a few weeks ago decided to begin the transition to Purina Pro Plan Sensitive skin and Stomach.
We did the slow transition (1 week : only a 1/4 amount new food, then 2 week: 50/50,etc)
Well the first week he had on and off loose stool, thought it was just the food. it was normal for a couple days so we upped it to 50/50, the. he was back to soft stool but it’s gotten progressively worse this time. He would have cow patty mush, and then drops of liquid, it was all slimy almost mucousy,
We took him to the vet, did a fecal and nothing came back, no worms, parasites or giardia.

So TL;DR : we assume our boy isn’t taking well to PPP sensitive stomach, but it’s the number 1 forum posted food I see for sensitive stomachs & in general, so after he gets off his anti-diarrheal and antibiotics, and normalizes, does anyone have any suggestions on what food to try next? I’m at a loss
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 06:15 AM
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My suggestion is to go back to base....assuming the puppy food you have been using was not causing any issues.
Go back to what worked to provide solid stools.
And wait and let things settle back to normal.
Once everything is all balanced out again the start again but at a much much slower pace.
Some can transition in a few weeks others can take a month or two.
Let the pooper be your guide.
For instance maybe introduce Purina Pro kibble as treats while using puppy food as the primary intake.
Then watch that pooper closely for any changes.
As things remain in check you can add a little bit more and a little bit more.
Limit what pup is eating or it can be hard to tell what is causing the upset pooper etc.
Good luck with this and keep us posted.

Hoss
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 06:18 AM
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Oh I forgot to ask why Doc has pup is on Antibiotics?
Did pup have belly problems before you began the transition to a different food?

Hoss
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Oh I forgot to ask why Doc has pup is on Antibiotics?
Did pup have belly problems before you began the transition to a different food?
Doc put him on a general Broad antibiotic he said would give just in case it was a parasite of some sort so the chances the antibiotic would fix it were high, but they would let us know if it was a more specific parasite that needed a different antibiotic.

As for your comment above, The first part is what I was planning already, to transition him back to his original food he did fine on, and wait a while for his stomach to settle,
As for attempting PPP again, I may try that, slower transition, but I’ll take other food suggestions into consideration first. I honestly scared to try to put him back on PPP. I mean he showed no other signs of being poorly other than the poop but honestly cleaning up after that poop was exhausting. Lol
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 10:22 AM
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How old is your puppy ? It may be that the Protein is to high or just feeding to much of it at one time - that can give them the screaming squirts too . We use PPP here , also it's the SS and S . But here's dang near 5 -

You might contact your breeder and pick there brain , I have read on here some never use puppy food - go right into the adult kibble .

The use on Anti's can also cause lose poop , It could be slowing down the recovery .

Best of luck
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katlin Tarrer View Post
Hi, so my pup has been having stomach issues, breeder fed Purina puppy chow so we stuck to that for over a month or so and then a few weeks ago decided to begin the transition to Purina Pro Plan Sensitive skin and Stomach.
We did the slow transition (1 week : only a 1/4 amount new food, then 2 week: 50/50,etc)
Well the first week he had on and off loose stool, thought it was just the food. it was normal for a couple days so we upped it to 50/50, the. he was back to soft stool but its gotten progressively worse this time. He would have cow patty mush, and then drops of liquid, it was all slimy almost mucousy,
We took him to the vet, did a fecal and nothing came back, no worms, parasites or giardia.

So TL;DR : we assume our boy isnt taking well to PPP sensitive stomach, but its the number 1 forum posted food I see for sensitive stomachs & in general, so after he gets off his anti-diarrheal and antibiotics, and normalizes, does anyone have any suggestions on what food to try next? Im at a loss
A couple of thoughts...first, the calorie content of Proplan is higher than the Puppy Chow, I think, so it's possible it was the higher calorie content causing the issue if you were feeding the same amount of food as you switched. When you switch foods you want to look at calories, and if the new food is higher in calories you have to reduce the amount you feed.

Second...honestly, if he was doing well on Purina Puppy Chow, I wouldn't feel bad about feeding that. I might wait until he's older to try switching foods, if that's what you want to do. Maybe wait until more like 6 months of age. There's nothing wrong with Puppy Chow. It's not a bad food.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 11:14 AM
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I feel for you with this...I had a similar problem but thankfully all ok.

One other thing to consider is food portion sizes. Dobermans are generally greedy. If the pup has too much food inside the intestine this can cause irritation. I learned this first hand.

Mark
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 11:58 AM
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Some dogs are just more sensitive to food changes. I agree with going back on the Puppy Chow and seeing if that helps clear things up. After his gut has had time to calm down (several months of good stools) you can try transitioning again if you want. And yes, keep an eye on how many calories he's getting. Puppy Chow Large Breed has 406 kcal/cup, while the Pro Plan Focus Sensitive salmon and rice has 429 kcal/cup.

Another thing to remember is that just because one food is fantastic for another dog, or even a whole lot of other dogs, that doesn't mean that it's fantastic for your dog.

What antibiotic is he on? Sometimes, the medication itself can cause loose stools.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses, when we were trying to transition to PPP we did adjust accordingly for the increase in calories & protein to make our portions more accurate. And when we noticed the prolonged loose stool we did also lower his intake of all food intake thinking may he just wasn’t digesting it all and maybe we were over feeding but nothing changed.

Maybe he just needs a little slower transition like you guys said, I will keep him on the puppy chow for a couple months while things get better and then decide

Also the antibiotic was given after his loose stool problems & for the problem. He was also give anti diarrheal meds, he’s doing better bc of them now, hopefully everything is better after the meds and staying on the puppy chow
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 01:41 PM
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As Rosemary said--not all dogs do well on a food that has been widely recommended. I'm a big fan of the Purina Proplan Focus line (that includes the ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach) But I've also fed the PP Focus Chicken and Rice and had one dog who seemed to be a little sensitive to fish and did better on that.

If he was doing well on the Purina Chow--I'd probably go back to that--as MeadowCat said--it's not a bad food.

But for future reference some diarrhea, like the progression you described can be directly related to how much fiber is included in the diet. Some dogs need more (and some less) fiber.

But I'd avoid making any major changes in what he's eating until he gets off all the meds and his gut isn't so upset that nothing is working. If he's on the Purina Chow now I'd probably keep him on it until he's six months or older.

Good luck with this--sometimes you just need to try some foods--sometimes less quality turns out to be better. At the suggestion of a Beagle breeder I talked a friend with a Beagle who had constant skin problems that ended up with him being
medicated and put on steroids several times every year. The Beagle breeder said to feed lower quality food--too much protein and they react with all these skin problems. At his suggestion I picked up a bag of the bottom line kibble from a big manufacturer. We also stopped giving him any meat scraps at all. Six weeks later all his skin problems cleared up and he never had another out break that needed hard core meds to clear up.

When I looked at the ingredient list I was fairly horrified--looked like floor sweepings--but it worked.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
When I looked at the ingredient list I was fairly horrified--looked like floor sweepings--but it worked.

dobebug

LOL--love it. Such a way with words

Nothing to add here to what others have said...other than just a general comment that Giardia doesn't always show up in every stool sample when a dog is infected.

https://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvet...ifficult-30990

I'm assuming what you're giving him is Metronidazole though? That should help take care of the giardia if that is indeed what is going on.

Anyway, I hope his tummy problems clear up soon for you guys. Potty training to the point where it all becomes routine is enough of a bother without adding in diarrhea.
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Last edited by melbrod; 01-21-2020 at 08:07 PM.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
When I looked at the ingredient list I was fairly horrified--looked like floor sweepings--but it worked.

dobebug

LOL--love it. Such a way with words [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/DobermanTalk_2016/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]

Anyway, I hope his tummy problems clear up soon for you guys. Potty training to the point where it all becomes routine is enough of a bother <img src="https://www.dobermantalk.com/images/smilies/smile1.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile1" class="inlineimg" /> without adding in diarrhea.
Haha exactly! Potty training with this was really hard for a while. But *knock on wood* he hasn’t had an accident in the house the last couple weeks and seems to be finally getting it

On the flip side as an update, I think somehow his anti diarrhea Meds are consitpating him (only pooping once or twice a day - his usual is 4/5) but somehow his stool is still really soft and yellow? So confusing
He’s been on the meds for 5 days now, it’s not mucous anymore just soft/yellow and tiny little speck of white, doesn’t look like eggs or worms to me though their literally like needle point size and almost look like undigested grains of some sort. No idea there either.
Hopefully we see more progression, they said the may retest his fecal in a week or so
But I plan to keep him on Purina Puppy chow until 6 months or so as recommended wether it’s his food bothering him or not just to give him a break
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 05:04 PM
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Um--most dogs and most puppies will poop after every meal. Only twice a day for the loaner puppy i have at the moment. If they get a lot of exercise at some point in the day there might be a third poop and it might be softer than those right after meals. 4 or 5 times a day seems like too much--it sound like he was getting too much food.

How old is he? And how much are you feeding per meal and how many meals a day?

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 06:57 PM
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Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach didn't work out for my boy either. Same as yours, he had loose stools no matter how slowly I transitioned him. It just wasn't working for him. We tried foooreeeeeever to find the right food. His vet put him on Hills Prescription Diet (Z/D) for a few months, which was a miracle worker, albeit expensive. After 3 months of perfect stools, we transitioned him to Hills Science Diet, Sensitive Skin (no prescription needed) and its been the best food for him. His poops are firm and they have been for months now. Maybe give it a try?
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 08:33 PM
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The vet clinic bookkeeper has Bull Mastiff's--she's on number 5 now. She had a hard time with her first three dogs trying to find a food that would give them solid stools that they would eat (one of the ones she tried one dog would eat but the other one wouldn't).

Finally she was talking to the rep one day when the rep was in pitching a new food and rep said "have you tried the Sensitive Skin?" It has been the magic bullet for her dogs--they've all done really well on it. Solid stools and they all like it.

Not all foods do real well for everyone.

ZD is one of the hydrolysed food (it is prescription) and it works very well on dogs who seem to not be get beyond soft stools or diarrhea--especially puppies. Many puppies outgrow the problems but it's just something to keep in mind if you run into the problem with a puppy, Hills is ZD, Royal Canin is HP and Purina is HA.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 12:56 AM
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Royal Canine from Vets - 24% max protein / low carb diet...will cure soft stools.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post

How old is he? And how much are you feeding per meal and how many meals a day?

dobebug
He’s 16weeks today, still once a day yellow poops. Vet gave use probiotics to give to him today in hopes that it help. He’s been back on Purina Puppy chow for a week now.
We did consider that we were feeding too much, it was 4 cups a day, now it’s 3cups a day (he gets half 2xday) as of a few days ago.
Hopefully probiotic helps. If it doesn’t she also have a prescription for us to buy tylan powder for him to try.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 10:21 PM
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Tylan powder is fantastic stuff.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katlin Tarrer View Post
Hes 16weeks today, still once a day yellow poops. Vet gave use probiotics to give to him today in hopes that it help. Hes been back on Purina Puppy chow for a week now.
We did consider that we were feeding too much, it was 4 cups a day, now its 3cups a day (he gets half 2xday) as of a few days ago.
Hopefully probiotic helps. If it doesnt she also have a prescription for us to buy tylan powder for him to try.
Have you tried desiccated (sp?) coconut? You can get it from sprouts or whole food. Since you said yellow that has me concerned. How many times did your vet test for Giarrdia or Coccidia? Often they can not show up on the first exam and it can take a few treatments to make them go away.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 10:00 AM
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Hey Gretchen Red,

Coconut works better on kittens with diarrhea than it does on puppies--if you are trying to do "natural" slippery elm seems to be one of the successful things and there are some prescription tablets that you can get that really just are the same stuff as the old Kopectate. It's like peptobismol minus the junk they decided to put into it that makes Pepobismol stuff that I never use on Dobes because it contain a close relative to asperin (has a salicylide radical). Anyway you can still buy the other stuff in feed stores (used to clear up scours in calves) in gallons. It consists of just kayolin (white clay) and pectine--the stuff you use to make low acid fruit jelly actually gel.

And I agree that both giardia and coccidia often don't show up in every stool stample. They tend to show up best in the first thing in the morning poops.

Good luck--diarrhea in puppies just a pain-trying to figure out if they need more fiber, less fiber or a totally different food.

dobebug
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 02:17 PM
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Hey Gretchen Red,

Coconut works better on kittens with diarrhea than it does on puppies--if you are trying to do "natural" slippery elm seems to be one of the successful things and there are some prescription tablets that you can get that really just are the same stuff as the old Kopectate. It's like peptobismol minus the junk they decided to put into it that makes Pepobismol stuff that I never use on Dobes because it contain a close relative to asperin (has a salicylide radical). Anyway you can still buy the other stuff in feed stores (used to clear up scours in calves) in gallons. It consists of just kayolin (white clay) and pectine--the stuff you use to make low acid fruit jelly actually gel.

And I agree that both giardia and coccidia often don't show up in every stool stample. They tend to show up best in the first thing in the morning poops.

Good luck--diarrhea in puppies just a pain-trying to figure out if they need more fiber, less fiber or a totally different food.

dobebug
We've been using the desiccated coconut and it's been working wonders for full grown dogs and puppies. It was suggested by a repo a vet.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 10:05 PM
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We've been using the desiccated coconut and it's been working wonders for full grown dogs and puppies. It was suggested by a repo a vet.
Our vet clinic doesn't have many dog breeders because it's a city practice but we do have several cat breeders--some of the more unusual breeds and one of clients (Norwegan Forest Cats) was in having a kitten from her most recent litter checked we (the vet, the tech and I) got to talking about diarrhea in kittens and she said that all of her kittens end up with diarrhea as soon as they are completely weaned but that a long time cat breeder gave her a sure cure many years ago and it always worked--and that was coconut.

We passed that information along to several other breeder who were having problems with diarrhea in kitten and it seemed to work fine and about half of the breeders say things like "Oh, how could I have forgotten that!"

It seemed so effective I tried it on the puppy I was raising then--didn't anything for him and I went back to the things that had worked in the past, less food, more fiber etc.

PS That breeder formula was just plain old shaved coconut (with no sugar added) 1/8 teaspoon with each meal.

For the record my dogs all love the coconut and maybe we (the cat breeder and I) didn't increase the amount given enough for dogs.

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post

Have you tried desiccated (sp?) coconut? You can get it from sprouts or whole food. Since you said yellow that has me concerned. How many times did your vet test for Giarrdia or Coccidia? Often they can not show up on the first exam and it can take a few treatments to make them go away.
Haven't tried coconut, after a couple days on probiotic we're seeing slightly firmer less yellow poops so fingers crossed!! As for retesting we only did the one test That was negative but the antibiotic he was one the vet set should clear it up if the test happened to miss it. She said if the problem persists past the antibiotics or Rylan powder we could retest

Thanks so much for your guys help!
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