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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Need help with food brands

Hi everyone,

I need some serious help choosing dog food.

I've been feeding my doberman pup Zignature Pork formula for pretty much the entire time I've had her. I've noticed in the past few months though that her stools are rather soft, and she has a lot of flaky dandruff. I'm seriously considering switching.

I'm also concerned because I've been hearing a lot about DCM caused by diet (especially grain free diets) within the past few months. My own breeder has been discussing it. My dog's line is clear of DCM, and I don't want to lose her early. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm really concerned.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:41 PM
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There have been several threads lately about the possible link between grain free diets and DCM lately. I'm on a somewhat cranky tablet, so linking tem is difficult, but if you search The forum, they should turn up.

The DCM the Dobes develop definitely has a genetic link. Given that an estimated 50% of Dobermans develop DCM, I'm kind of wondering what you mean when you say that "my dog's line is clear of DCM".
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See if this works.... https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...d-renamed.html


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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
There have been several threads lately about the possible link between grain free diets and DCM lately. I'm on a somewhat cranky tablet, so linking tem is difficult, but if you search The forum, they should turn up.

The DCM the Dobes develop definitely has a genetic link. Given that an estimated 50% of Dobermans develop DCM, I'm kind of wondering what you mean when you say that "my dog's line is clear of DCM".
Thank you!

I mean they're clear of the gene, and have no history of it. Her parents have both been tested via Embark and done multiple heart holter tests. Her father is a carrier of von willebrand's (but didn't pass it thankfully), but not DCM. This is her father's Embark page - https://my.embarkvet.com/dog/christi...noffire#health

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 07:00 AM
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I'm sorry you were misled, but it's in every line. If someone claims it isn't in theirs, they aren't looking far enough back.

What's the dam's registered name? Who's the breeder? The sire comes from a lot of lackluster breeders, so I'm not surprised the owner of the sire made that claim...

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
I'm sorry you were misled, but it's in every line. If someone claims it isn't in theirs, they aren't looking far enough back.

What's the dam's registered name? Who's the breeder? The sire comes from a lot of lackluster breeders, so I'm not surprised the owner of the sire made that claim...
Let me rephrase, they never made the claim. Only one of the puppies they've bred within the past 5+ years has developed it (owner's are unsure of the cause, different parents from mine), and both my dog's mother and father are clear of the gene.

I can't recall her name off hand. I'd have to go dig in my papers. I'm also not sure if my breeder owns him or not. How do you tell that he's from lackluster breeders? Also how would someone fudge multiple health tests???

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 09:07 AM
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Welcome Pud ! Well you asked a good question here -we have discussed this food deal on here before and to honestly answer your question - I don't think that anyone can give you a real answer to it - There is so many thoughts and ideas on food .

I had Mr. Business over at the Vets yesterday , The Vet and I someway got to talking about dog foods and the possibly connections between the grain free and DCM - I asked her take - as she sounded like she had read a lot on the subject + was very knowledgeable on it - Now the interesting part - to me - I told her the way I have read the findings - that they are finding other breeds getting DCM - but have not read anything that there has been a increase in DCM in Dobermans from feeding grain free food - her answer - that's the way she reads it to .

We also got into a good discussion on all the new " designer " foods - Disclaimer here - I'm not selling any produces or food here - But that lead us back to us and what we feed our first Dobermans back in the early 80's - What foods where there back then ? Foods like Purina lead the list . They do feeding trails verse's the designers just using data that this is what it will do - lets face it here - they can plug in any numbers you want to factor in -- this or that about how good there foods are - I will be honest here - I feel into there marketing plan - For me ? I'm in the progress of switching back to Purina for Mr. B . We had feed this food to Dobermans that lived to be close to 15 years old and one that's 11 and 6 months + the others that made it double digits . Why did I switch now ? Beats me - Just great marketing on the part of the new companies I guess . Look at the money being spent on our babies ? Billions a year ! Why ? To give them best of the best -- But are we really doing that ?

I may be totally wrong in my thinking here - but you asked -- And I replied - lol

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Welcome Pud ! Well you asked a good question here -we have discussed this food deal on here before and to honestly answer your question - I don't think that anyone can give you a real answer to it - There is so many thoughts and ideas on food .



I had Mr. Business over at the Vets yesterday , The Vet and I someway got to talking about dog foods and the possibly connections between the grain free and DCM - I asked her take - as she sounded like she had read a lot on the subject + was very knowledgeable on it - Now the interesting part - to me - I told her the way I have read the findings - that they are finding other breeds getting DCM - but have not read anything that there has been a increase in DCM in Dobermans from feeding grain free food - her answer - that's the way she reads it to .



We also got into a good discussion on all the new " designer " foods - Disclaimer here - I'm not selling any produces or food here - But that lead us back to us and what we feed our first Dobermans back in the early 80's - What foods where there back then ? Foods like Purina lead the list . They do feeding trails verse's the designers just using data that this is what it will do - lets face it here - they can plug in any numbers you want to factor in -- this or that about how good there foods are - I will be honest here - I feel into there marketing plan - For me ? I'm in the progress of switching back to Purina for Mr. B . We had feed this food to Dobermans that lived to be close to 15 years old and one that's 11 and 6 months + the others that made it double digits . Why did I switch now ? Beats me - Just great marketing on the part of the new companies I guess . Look at the money being spent on our babies ? Billions a year ! Why ? To give them best of the best -- But are we really doing that ?



I may be totally wrong in my thinking here - but you asked -- And I replied - lol



Doc
Thank you so much for your input!

I'm in the same boat as you, honestly. My family has fed my dogs Iams for my entire life until the past year or so. My dog's have all lived to be in their double digits as well, one making it to 16. (She was small though)

Based on your opinion, and the opinions of everyone in the thread I was linked, I'm going to switch back to Iams. It served me well for a long time.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 09:28 AM
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On the topic of food, personally, I wouldn't feed Zignature, as it's a brand that does not employ a nutritionist to make their formulas, and does not do extensive food trials to test the food. It's also one that has had quite a few cases of dogs with suspected nutritional DCM. It's just my opinion, of course, but I wouldn't feel comfortable feeding it. Iams is one of the foods that IS made by a manufacturer that does use a veterinary or PhD nutritionist and extensive food trials. Many people will disagree, but since they've had no reports of nutritional DCM, and a long history of formulating dog food correctly, I'd feel just fine feeding it.

On the other topic of DCM in your dog's pedigree, that's an entirely different topic. All Dobermans are going to have DCM in the pedigree. A good, educated breeder should be able to walk through the pedigree with you and let you know which dogs have been diagnosed with it...personally, I'd like to go back past simply the grandparents and great-grandparents, and I also want to know about the lateral pedigree. By that, I mean, what about the siblings of my dog's parents, the siblings of my dog's grandparents, etc?

If you can talk with your breeder more extensively about your dog's pedigree to get more health information, and not just about DCM, it's very helpful for you. I like to know things like, did anyone have bloat? What about cancer? What type? What about allergies? How about OCD behaviors like obsessive eating of things? Anyone have obstructions? The more information you have about everyone, the more armed you are.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 09:57 AM
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Good post MC ! '

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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Currently they have identified two genes associated with DCM. The fact that dogs free of both of those genes are dying of the disease tells everyone that there are certainly more than the two that are known. There are no known lines free of DCM......anywhere. The latest figure that the cardiologist told me a year ago was 60%. Personally I feel it's higher. JMO
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:32 AM
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About DCM in Dobermans--in our breed DCM is definitely linked to genetics. BUT--there is no ONE gene that causes DCM. So far there are two genes for which there are tests which are linked to specific problems which will "cause" or add to the possibility of the dog developing DCM.

The cause of DCM which has been studied in people far longer than it's been studied in dogs and they have identified something like 23 genes which are part of the reason why some people develop cardio (specifically dilated cardiomyopathy).

The cause of DCM is polygenetic--that means there are MANY genes involved not just one. This is why no breeder can say that his dogs don't have THE gene for cardio/DCM.

A good many breeders test for one (or both) of the genes that have been linked to DCM in the Doberman and take a negative in either or both to mean their dogs won't develop DCM. They need to go back and talk to a vet cardiologist so that they actually understand what those tests mean.

Here is another thing to think about--the statistic that says that around 50% of all Dobermans will develop DCM/heart disease is accurate--sort of. But what it doesn't necessarily mean is that around 50% of all Dobermans will DIE from DCM/cardio.

I've got a lot of time in this breed--let me give you a example.; I got my first Doberman in 1959--he lived to be 9 and was ultimately euthanized before his 10th birthday because he had developed DCM which had progressed to CHF (congestive heart failure--fluid in the lungs which was killing him). That was in 1968.

That was so far back that a lot of vets knew nothing about cardio in the Doberman--there were very few medications that were prescribed for dogs with cardio. They weren't doing cardiograms (ultrasounds of the beating heart and takng measurements) I don't think anyone had ever heard of doing a Holter (24 hour EKG)--they weren't even doing a lot of that kind of stuff in people..But that was my first experience with DCM--and we only knew about it because a vet, a friend of the family, dropped by my parents house (where the dog was living out his old age) heard him cough--went out and got his stethoscope and told them to get him in to their vet first thing in the morning. Most people with cardio dogs didn't find out about it until the dog suddenly dropped dead.

Between that dog and the more recent ones I had dogs who probably did have cardio but it was never diagnosed--most of them were euthanized for other reasons. Most of them lived to around 10 years. And in the early 90's the breeders and owners started paying a lot more attention to the Doberman heart--Gwelph--big vet school up in Canada did most of the very early studies--they developed some guide lines and started recommending echo's and Holters on yearly basis because the information from studies of a heart over time tell your vet a lot more than one test.

Diagnostics got a lot better, medications REALLY got better and I started testing my dogs so we knew if their hearts were starting to fail and could treat them appropriately and I didn't loose another Doberman to cardio until 2013--I lost him to sudden death--he came home from an Agility trial and shortly after he got home I realized he was acting like something was very wrong--I work for a vet clinic--I called them and headed for them--I got there but my dog didn't--at least he didn't get there alive. He was two months shy of 10 years. But I knew this was coming--it was clear from all those Holters that he was starting to have episodes of abnormal electrical activity.

So that was two dogs I lost to cardio in all those years. I know--because I was having them tested by the late 1990 that several of my more recent dogs actually had mild to fairly significant cardio but that isn't what they died from. One of them had degenerative disc disease and blew out a disc which paralyzed him and I had him euthanized. One was dying of kidney failure when he was euthanized. My lovely fawn champion is now 13 years, 5 months and 14 days--does he have cardio? Yup--is it killing him--nope! The DCM in his case is well controlled and it's more likely that the fact that he has arthritis in places that can be very painful and will eventually reach the point where the pain isn't well controlled with medication. But he's probably not going to actually die of DCM.

So--as far as DCM goes--you still can't predict which dogs will actually die because of cardio but you can start doing regular cardio exams with a vet cardiologist--I start between two and three--and follow up with annual exams until they are 6 or 7 and then I have them checked twice a year. Catching beginning cardio early will enable you to treat it and even with cardio a good many dogs live long and active lives.

Oh, and I've been feeding Purina Pro Plan for years--seems to work well for my dogs.

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:39 AM
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About DCM in Dobermans--in our breed DCM is definitely linked to genetics. BUT--there is no ONE gene that causes DCM. So far there are two genes for which there are tests which are linked to specific problems which will "cause" or add to the possibility of the dog developing DCM.

The cause of DCM which has been studied in people far longer than it's been studied in dogs and they have identified something like 23 genes which are part of the reason why some people develop cardio (specifically dilated cardiomyopathy).

The cause of DCM is polygenetic--that means there are MANY genes involved not just one. This is why no breeder can say that his dogs don't have THE gene for cardio/DCM.

A good many breeders test for one (or both) of the genes that have been linked to DCM in the Doberman and take a negative in either or both to mean their dogs won't develop DCM. They need to go back and talk to a vet cardiologist so that they actually understand what those tests mean.

Here is another thing to think about--the statistic that says that around 50% of all Dobermans will develop DCM/heart disease is accurate--sort of. But what it doesn't necessarily mean is that around 50% of all Dobermans will DIE from DCM/cardio.

I've got a lot of time in this breed--let me give you a example.; I got my first Doberman in 1959--he lived to be 9 and was ultimately euthanized before his 10th birthday because he had developed DCM which had progressed to CHF (congestive heart failure--fluid in the lungs which was killing him). That was in 1968.

That was so far back that a lot of vets knew nothing about cardio in the Doberman--there were very few medications that were prescribed for dogs with cardio. They weren't doing cardiograms (ultrasounds of the beating heart and takng measurements) I don't think anyone had ever heard of doing a Holter (24 hour EKG)--they weren't even doing a lot of that kind of stuff in people..But that was my first experience with DCM--and we only knew about it because a vet, a friend of the family, dropped by my parents house (where the dog was living out his old age) heard him cough--went out and got his stethoscope and told them to get him in to their vet first thing in the morning. Most people with cardio dogs didn't find out about it until the dog suddenly dropped dead.

Between that dog and the more recent ones I had dogs who probably did have cardio but it was never diagnosed--most of them were euthanized for other reasons. Most of them lived to around 10 years. And in the early 90's the breeders and owners started paying a lot more attention to the Doberman heart--Gwelph--big vet school up in Canada did most of the very early studies--they developed some guide lines and started recommending echo's and Holters on yearly basis because the information from studies of a heart over time tell your vet a lot more than one test.

Diagnostics got a lot better, medications REALLY got better and I started testing my dogs so we knew if their hearts were starting to fail and could treat them appropriately and I didn't loose another Doberman to cardio until 2013--I lost him to sudden death--he came home from an Agility trial and shortly after he got home I realized he was acting like something was very wrong--I work for a vet clinic--I called them and headed for them--I got there but my dog didn't--at least he didn't get there alive. He was two months shy of 10 years. But I knew this was coming--it was clear from all those Holters that he was starting to have episodes of abnormal electrical activity.

So that was two dogs I lost to cardio in all those years. I know--because I was having them tested by the late 1990 that several of my more recent dogs actually had mild to fairly significant cardio but that isn't what they died from. One of them had degenerative disc disease and blew out a disc which paralyzed him and I had him euthanized. One was dying of kidney failure when he was euthanized. My lovely fawn champion is now 13 years, 5 months and 14 days--does he have cardio? Yup--is it killing him--nope! The DCM in his case is well controlled and it's more likely that the fact that he has arthritis in places that can be very painful and will eventually reach the point where the pain isn't well controlled with medication. But he's probably not going to actually die of DCM.

So--as far as DCM goes--you still can't predict which dogs will actually die because of cardio but you can start doing regular cardio exams with a vet cardiologist--I start between two and three--and follow up with annual exams until they are 6 or 7 and then I have them checked twice a year. Catching beginning cardio early will enable you to treat it and even with cardio a good many dogs live long and active lives.

Oh, and I've been feeding Purina Pro Plan for years--seems to work well for my dogs.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:44 AM
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I'm no expert on this topic and only have 10 years in the breed. For most of that time I have fed raw with good results. My old gal was let go at almost 10 because she developed osteosarcoma. She was in pain and at risk of breaking her leg.

My young guy is only just over 4 months and was weaned onto raw. He is currently chewing on a goat cube with me outside. He loves raw and the old gal loved raw so that's what I feed.

We are all at risk of our loveys developing DCM so I I feel we have to do the best we can while giving them the best life we can. Feed what you feel works for your dog and enjoy your time with then because we never have enough time with them.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
I'm no expert on this topic and only have 10 years in the breed. For most of that time I have fed raw with good results. My old gal was let go at almost 10 because she developed osteosarcoma. She was in pain and at risk of breaking her leg.

My young guy is only just over 4 months and was weaned onto raw. He is currently chewing on a goat cube with me outside. He loves raw and the old gal loved raw so that's what I feed.

We are all at risk of our loveys developing DCM so I I feel we have to do the best we can while giving them the best life we can. Feed what you feel works for your dog and enjoy your time with then because we never have enough time with them.
I would love to feed raw above all else, but unfortunately it's not an option. I'm in college and live at home currently, so the freezer space is up to my parents. I've seen the most success with it, especially with dobies it seems.

Kudos to you for having taken the time to learn about raw for your dogs.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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About DCM in Dobermans--in our breed DCM is definitely linked to genetics. BUT--there is no ONE gene that causes DCM. So far there are two genes for which there are tests which are linked to specific problems which will "cause" or add to the possibility of the dog developing DCM.

The cause of DCM which has been studied in people far longer than it's been studied in dogs and they have identified something like 23 genes which are part of the reason why some people develop cardio (specifically dilated cardiomyopathy).

The cause of DCM is polygenetic--that means there are MANY genes involved not just one. This is why no breeder can say that his dogs don't have THE gene for cardio/DCM.

A good many breeders test for one (or both) of the genes that have been linked to DCM in the Doberman and take a negative in either or both to mean their dogs won't develop DCM. They need to go back and talk to a vet cardiologist so that they actually understand what those tests mean.

Here is another thing to think about--the statistic that says that around 50% of all Dobermans will develop DCM/heart disease is accurate--sort of. But what it doesn't necessarily mean is that around 50% of all Dobermans will DIE from DCM/cardio.

I've got a lot of time in this breed--let me give you a example.; I got my first Doberman in 1959--he lived to be 9 and was ultimately euthanized before his 10th birthday because he had developed DCM which had progressed to CHF (congestive heart failure--fluid in the lungs which was killing him). That was in 1968.

That was so far back that a lot of vets knew nothing about cardio in the Doberman--there were very few medications that were prescribed for dogs with cardio. They weren't doing cardiograms (ultrasounds of the beating heart and takng measurements) I don't think anyone had ever heard of doing a Holter (24 hour EKG)--they weren't even doing a lot of that kind of stuff in people..But that was my first experience with DCM--and we only knew about it because a vet, a friend of the family, dropped by my parents house (where the dog was living out his old age) heard him cough--went out and got his stethoscope and told them to get him in to their vet first thing in the morning. Most people with cardio dogs didn't find out about it until the dog suddenly dropped dead.

Between that dog and the more recent ones I had dogs who probably did have cardio but it was never diagnosed--most of them were euthanized for other reasons. Most of them lived to around 10 years. And in the early 90's the breeders and owners started paying a lot more attention to the Doberman heart--Gwelph--big vet school up in Canada did most of the very early studies--they developed some guide lines and started recommending echo's and Holters on yearly basis because the information from studies of a heart over time tell your vet a lot more than one test.

Diagnostics got a lot better, medications REALLY got better and I started testing my dogs so we knew if their hearts were starting to fail and could treat them appropriately and I didn't loose another Doberman to cardio until 2013--I lost him to sudden death--he came home from an Agility trial and shortly after he got home I realized he was acting like something was very wrong--I work for a vet clinic--I called them and headed for them--I got there but my dog didn't--at least he didn't get there alive. He was two months shy of 10 years. But I knew this was coming--it was clear from all those Holters that he was starting to have episodes of abnormal electrical activity.

So that was two dogs I lost to cardio in all those years. I know--because I was having them tested by the late 1990 that several of my more recent dogs actually had mild to fairly significant cardio but that isn't what they died from. One of them had degenerative disc disease and blew out a disc which paralyzed him and I had him euthanized. One was dying of kidney failure when he was euthanized. My lovely fawn champion is now 13 years, 5 months and 14 days--does he have cardio? Yup--is it killing him--nope! The DCM in his case is well controlled and it's more likely that the fact that he has arthritis in places that can be very painful and will eventually reach the point where the pain isn't well controlled with medication. But he's probably not going to actually die of DCM.

So--as far as DCM goes--you still can't predict which dogs will actually die because of cardio but you can start doing regular cardio exams with a vet cardiologist--I start between two and three--and follow up with annual exams until they are 6 or 7 and then I have them checked twice a year. Catching beginning cardio early will enable you to treat it and even with cardio a good many dogs live long and active lives.

Oh, and I've been feeding Purina Pro Plan for years--seems to work well for my dogs.

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Thank you. This cleared up a lot for me. I should rephrase myself again and say that my dog's line is clear of the two known genes, then.

This is extremely useful as well. Honestly your experience has put a lot of my worries to rest. This is my first purebred dog and I did a lot of research before getting her, but I've been terrified of DCM the entire time. Its good to know it can at least be controlled and doesn't have to be a death sentence.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 10:54 AM
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I would love to feed raw above all else, but unfortunately it's not an option. I'm in college and live at home currently, so the freezer space is up to my parents. I've seen the most success with it, especially with dobies it seems.

Kudos to you for having taken the time to learn about raw for your dogs.

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What about dehydrated raw? I don't have much experience with this but I did try it a few weeks back when my boys sister stayed over for a few days as she eats that. It may be something to look into.

Or buy a small used freezer for raw dog food so your parents can't complain.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
What about dehydrated raw? I don't have much experience with this but I did try it a few weeks back when my boys sister stayed over for a few days as she eats that. It may be something to look into.



Or buy a small used freezer for raw dog food so your parents can't complain.



Good luck in whatever you decide.
I totally forgot about that. I'll look into it, thanks!

I could do that maybe but I'm not sure we have the space. I'll have to ask.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 11:43 AM
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Dehydrating food can destroy some nutrients, but not as many as the process of cooking the food that most big dog food manufacturers use.
Dehydrated raw is not entirely equivalent to feeding actual raw food...close, but not totally the same.

But the main problem people run into with feeding raw (aside from storage, getting the meats, organs, that they need, etc.) is whether or not they have been very careful to make sure the dog receives all of the nutrients in the correct balance that he needs to be healthy.

That is one of the problems they are starting to see with grain-free foods, but also with "designer foods" that are not adequately tested to make sure they include everything a dog needs in his diet. It appears that the nutrient balance or content may not be quite right--but it is not known yet exactly what should be changed. Using food from pet food manufacturers that have been around a long time who have been testing carefully over the years and upgrading the contents of the food as more is discovered about dog nutrition is one perfectly valid way to go in feeding your dog.

Some people insist that their feeding method is the only way to go. Individual dogs may have different needs, and different people have preferences about how they choose to feed their dog. We've always had luck with Purina ProPlan for Sensitive Skin...your mileage may vary.

If my dog is healthy, his digestive tract appears to be happy (no diarrhea, vomiting, etc), his coat is shiny, he has good energy, and I'm feeding a decent quality food, I figure that is good enough. I don't see the need to spend more simply to go along with a new fad, or a fancy marketing program.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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What Mel said. I'm also feeding Proplan Sensitive Skin and Stomach (the salmon formula). Not sure if you had a chance to read through this thread yet: https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...d-renamed.html

It appears most dog food companies (including those formulating premade raw, and dehydrated raw) do not have nutritionists formulating their foods, and so the foods are not being properly formulated. So even some dogs on raw diets (including homemade raw, if people do not know how to do raw properly) have developed nutritional DCM.

As far as the DCM genes go...right now, those tests are not terribly helpful for knowing much about your dog's risk of developing the disease. They are marginally helpful for breeders (maybe), helpful for continuing research, but not that helpful for us laypeople and our own dogs, because they don't really tell us anything about your dog's risk. Your dog could be negative for both genes and still develop the disease - I have a friend who has two Dobermans...both dogs are negative for both genes, and both dogs have DCM. So, I wouldn't put much stock in the gene testing as far as it pertains to your dog's risk. What's helpful to you is knowing the history in the pedigree, and MORE importantly, start testing your dog at age 2-3 years old so that you can monitor. Get a yearly echo and holter done. If you catch any symptoms early, it's possible you will have a better chance to extend your dog's life if he does develop the disease. Some dogs live much longer on meds than they would otherwise. It's no guarantee, as different dogs have a different disease progression, but it can make a big difference in some. Additionally, I strongly recommend pet insurance that covers DCM and other inherited diseases.
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 12:44 PM
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Bacchus was 9+ when diagnosed with DCM. It was well controlled with meds right up until the end. We continued his normal physical stuff (play ball, run the field). The reason I had to have him put down was not due to the DCM but because of an injury that affected his ability to walk. He was 10+ at the time. If it weren't for the injury I don't know how long he would have been around. All those years of agility and not one injury. Then one small jump from his Transit and it was the beginning of the end. I still cry everyday....
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 01:56 PM
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Aunt B ----- What a book of knowledge you are ! You are such a asset to this form and I would like to thank you so much for your insight to the Doberman world and what you have personally seen with your Dober's -- ! If you were here I would give you a big hug !

On a side note here - I talked to the Vet yesterday about doing a Holter on Mr. B - They have a gal from Purdue down to do the test and read the results - BTW - She is a Vet trained in this area of study

We plan on doing this soon .

I do have a question on this --- If you are feeding raw - isn't raw food like 75 % water ? Compared to the dry's that are - well dried and more concentrated ? Wouldn't you have to feed a lot more raw to equal the dry ? And how would you know the nutritional value in the raw compared to the dry -- Just asking )

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 05:02 PM
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If you go to wsava.org and poke around, you can find a PDF that gives guidelines on choosing a food for your pupper. One consideration is whether or not the company employs an actual nutritionist or vet. Remember, slick marketing isn't necessarily backed by science.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 06:11 PM
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If you go to wsava.org and poke around, you can find a PDF that gives guidelines on choosing a food for your pupper. One consideration is whether or not the company employs an actual nutritionist or vet. Remember, slick marketing isn't necessarily backed by science.
WSAVA Questions to ask about your dog food: https://www.wsava.org/WSAVA/media/Ar...r-your-Pet.pdf

WSAVA The savvy owner's guide to nutrition on the Internet: https://www.wsava.org/WSAVA/media/Ar...e-Internet.pdf

Edited to add - the second one is super useful. For example, I can't tell you how many people love Dog Food Advisor and have no idea that the person running it and rating dog foods is simply a human dentist with ZERO qualifications to evaluate dog food I had no idea myself, and used to think it was a great site.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 07:55 AM
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Let me rephrase, they never made the claim. Only one of the puppies they've bred within the past 5+ years has developed it (owner's are unsure of the cause, different parents from mine), and both my dog's mother and father are clear of the gene.

I can't recall her name off hand. I'd have to go dig in my papers. I'm also not sure if my breeder owns him or not. How do you tell that he's from lackluster breeders? Also how would someone fudge multiple health tests???

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You provided his registered name, and I looked him up. He is NOT from someone I would considered ethical or reputable.

If your breeder bred to him, well. I'd look at her a bit sideways, too.

Health testing is great, but what you've shared looks incomplete. Does your breeder do annual holters AND echocardiograms in addition to the genetic tests? What about the owner of the sire? What's the longevity on both sides of the pedigree?

These are things I didn't learn until after bringing home my bitch. And I'm not trying to make you feel bad about your choice - just trying to give you tools for the future.
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