Need a new food type recommendation. - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Need a new food type recommendation.

Ace’s skin issue(scab like areas that don’t ooze, just scab up and flake) is becoming more prominent and I’d like to change his food. We have an upcoming vet appt, but this issue hasn’t gotten worse since our last appt so I want to get a head on things. We already wash him with Duoxo Medicated Shampoo and use the cholorehexidine(Sp?) On his testicles where it is also prominent. He’s not outside laying in dirt anymore(like he use to love to do, thought maybe that was it so we cleared up the dirt areas). He also doesn’t often get into things he shouldn’t outside.

He’s currently on grain free Puppy/High Energy Adult food from Beaverdam Pet Food since it had a great rating and is local to us. I think I would like to switch him to something grain free AND with no chicken. Atleast to see if removing chicken helps him out. Sometimes if I give him chicken type treats he will have diarrhea so that’s just where my hunch comes from. Not real sure.

Regardless, does anyone have any food recommendations? Preferably not something super expensive. Ours is $50 a bag now and that’s about as high as we want to go. But I really would like to help him get these skin issues under control.


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 02:39 PM
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I don't know about Ace's skin, but I always had luck with Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Lamb and Rice, or Salmon and Rice. I haven't looked for it for a while; they may have changed it--they used to have it in puppy as well as adult versions.

Grain free is sorta overrated in my opinion--and there's some talk that it may even cause some heart issues in breeds that aren't prone to it--possibly due to a taurine problem, which doesn't seem to be what is going on in dobermans, but still
https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary.../ucm613305.htm

You can probably switch to all-stages food too--that might widen your choices.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 02:52 PM
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Hi Chesa,

Have you ever tried Ace on a more ordinary kibble? Like one that isn't grain free? Occasionally just out of curiosity when something new comes on the market that everyone swears is better than ANYTHING I try stuff even though I've had such good luck with the ProPlan products they are basically my good to choice--but I have occasionally had a dog along the line that needed something different.

If you actually think this is a food allergy (food allergies are actually pretty rare but they do occur) what you might want to do is to either start out with having Ace seen by a dermatologist/allergist. Tracking an actual food allergy is a fairly infolved process and many dermatologists are now starting by feeding the dog with suspected allergies with on of the fully hydrolyzed kibbles. They are all prescription Hills is ZD, Royal Canin is HP and Purina's is HA. But both all the vegetable and animal protein is fully hydrolyzed into short protein length's which the pet's body doesn't identify as something it is allergic/sensitive to.

It eliminates going through months of novel protein foods (like Kangaroo and Oat just as a for instance) only to have it turn out the dogs problem is with the white potato which is often the carb source for non grain formulas.

I've had some experience but this is really all just personal experience not from any sort of extensive study. I found (one two separate occasions) when I tried grain free formulas that the only dog I had who could eat any grain free formula was my Australian Shepherd. One of the tries I also had three adult Dobes--two of them had constant diarrhea on that grain free food. The Aussie and the other Dobe were fine with it but it basically was no better than the ProPlan that they were eating before (and again after) Several years later I tried a different grain free kibble . Two Dobes and the same Aussie and two different Dobes were the test cases--the Aussie was fine but he didn't really like it much--ate it reluctantly and was glad to go back to the ProPlan and one of the Dobes had diarrhea--and didn't have a normal stool until we went back to ProPlan. The third Dobe said it was OK but would have preferred something else--that food just didn't seem very palatable.

Sometimes it isn't the meat protein that a dog is reacting to at all but some of the other minor ingredients and treat are fairly frequently likely to have odd ingredients along with chicken.

And just recently I had a conversion with my dogs cardiogist about foods--grain free etc and she said the studies just recent that started looking a cases of non-genetic DCM that have been showing up in dogs (unlike Dobermans) who do not usually have large numbers of cardio dogs caused vets to take another look at what we are feeding and why and what we should probably be feeding because of some issues that have recently shown up that appear to be food relate.

She said it's probably a good idea with dogs that have any issues that might be food related to make sure you are feeding a midrange food with very ordinary ingredients. These have years of proof that dogs do reasonably well on them. She also said that probably the foods that come from the bigger companies are actually more likely to be better than some of the products from smaller companies with odd or unusual ingredients which have never really had much of a background of any sort in the diet the average dog.

Just some stuff that has been coming up lately with respect to dog diets that you might want to consider when chosing a new diet for Ace.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you both for your input!! I started him on grain free as a pup because I just thought it would help prevent a sensitive stomach.

Dobebug your post was very informative and made so much sense. We will look into Proplan to be the switch for now, and see if that does anything for him. I can definitely understand the points you mentioned and cannot thank you enough for going into such a detailed post, cause I really think you both are right. I keep jumping to “food allergy” without much knowledge but it seems like our small foot distributor does add quite a few random ingredients to help with stomach sensitivity.

I just want my boy healthy and happy. I think we have happy nailed, so now to stick with healthy!


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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 06:53 PM
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Hoss used to have some skin issues (between 1 and 2 years old) and it would be seasonally....as we approached September.
It would come and then go away.
I used to get so fussy with my vet because I wanted hoss to have meds for the itching ....she was conservative and would explain she wanted those exposures .....and the price for those exposures was minor flare ups scaly skin ...etc. ...and we would do shampoos like you for management.
My vet ....she felt it was airborne and insisted me to allow nature to take its course along with managing the conditions conservatively. She felt it was important for Hoss to build up his immume system through these exposures/outbreaks .
Now Hoss is three.....rarely any issues.....if he gets scaly my vet has me use selsun blue dandruff shampoo once every 10 days.
I have used the shampoos you are using also and they are good as long as not used often as they will dry out the skin to used to frequently.
IMO Vinegar and water is the worlds best astringent for these pups....that was recommended by Hoss’s dermatologist ........1 part vinegar to 3 parts water .......or even diluted more if you want .......vinegar......that stuff just has so many uses......great wipe down for those problem areas in between shampoos.
I recently changed to Hydrated Dog food Human grade ....through Spot Farms.....so far so good.....Hoss still gets kibble throughout the day through snacks etc.....between both he gets about 4 cups of food a day. But this hydrated food smells real good.........and stools are still real firm. So now Hoss gets a little of both.....and he loves his Knawrock !!! Still .....I make meatballs out of that hydrated food and place into the rock....yum yum...he loves that toy......!!! I pretty sure you suggested this toy to me last year.....anyway good to hear from you

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 11:59 PM
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Zeus eats Taste of the Wild, High Prairie Canine Formula. He hasn't had any problems on it. It's grain free as well.

It's funny because I was just thinking of you earlier today! I was wondering how Ace was doing in general because I hadn't seen a post from you in a while (or I could've possibly just missed them!). Sorry to hear he's having some skin problems, and I hope it all clears up soon!
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 06:22 PM
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I'd also put him on Proplan, if it was me. The sensitive skin and stomach, which is branded as "Focus". If you don't want to do that, I'd find something NOT grain free. Just my opinion. There are some really good dog food blogs by people who are actually educated on dog nutrition that I follow and trust. The one I'd recommend is by Linda Case, who is a canine nutritionist - she has a master's degree in canine nutrition. https://thesciencedog.com/


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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Ace was near the bottom of his bag on his food yesterday, so we went to Petco (which is conveniently two minutes from our house) and got the Proplan Sensitive Skin and Stomach as recommended.

With his current food, he has very little interest. Lately I had to put a sprinkle of cheese on top to get him to eat it. I mixed in a very small portion of the Proplan into his current food, to begin the switch, and he tore his food up. I hope his interest in this Proplan stays! He was even sniffing the bag on the way home, lol. I cancelled the vet appt to see if this new food makes a difference.

Thanks everyone! I really can't thank you guys enough for your guidance.

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