Taste of the wild dog food grain free vs limited grain - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Taste of the wild dog food grain free vs limited grain

Hello so I’m just hoping to get some opinions on taste of the wild dog food and also gather thoughts on whether or not kcals per cup is something to live by. So I’ve always fed my boy 30/20 formulas whether it’s been pro plan sport, victor hi pro plus , diamond naturals extreme athlete, 4 health performance all of those formulas range from 400kcal per cup to 475 kcal per cup and he eats 5 cups daily split between 2 feedings so roughly he has always gotten 2000 to 2200 kcal a day but taste of the wild ranges from 360-390ish kcal per cup which at 5 cups a day is 1800 kcal to 1900kcal. And while the foods I’ve fed him have been free from corn wheat and soy I’ve heard some foods that are limited grain like that have empty calories in them versus grain free diets don’t have empty calories and I’ve also heard that grain free just subs out barley, sorghum , or Millet for lentils, pea protein, or sweet potatoes which in some of my research people think it’s just preference when it gets down to it. I was hoping to gather opinions or observations and please don’t recommend feeding raw that’s no currently a good option for me thank you.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:21 PM
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Vets are linking grain free to heart disease now...FYI.

I don't feed grain free / now potato crops are rotting in fields...8% of Canadian crops (PEI & MB) are frost/froze spoiled ...crap will most likely end up in many higher priced kibbles.

Our girl is now on a Low Protein/High Carb diet for soft stool problem...to save her liver.
Her Orijen was 38-44% and way to high & caused her problems / now on 24% max...2.5 cups/day.
- I'll never feed that high of meat protein again

Good luck on picking the diet / you seem to have a good handle on ingredients.
- nice to see

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:25 PM
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Hey Cp...

My thought for years has been to feed one's dog what they like, thrive on and you can afford.

My youngest (4 yo) has been on Acana Meadow Land for over 2 years.

So... what do I look at? After the puppy stage.... It would be appetite, quality of stools, skin condition, hair/fur and overall health an condition.

There is no kibble that is perfect for all dogs.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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My favorite and my dogs favorite was victor hi pro plus but I’m not sure what was going on but he started to lose slight amounts of hair on the under side of his neck / chew on his nails which our signs of allergy and I couldn’t get narrowed down but I think it was the beef meal sorghum and potentially the tomato pomace not positive since he been eating 4health performance hair has gotten better but now they just launched the new and improved formula which we all know means “ new and cheaper ingredients “ and they took out the glucosamine in the food upon it being improved.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 11:31 PM
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Just to make things a little more complicated for you:

Environmental allergies are more common than food allergies, so it is possible that the improvement you're seeing is due to the change in weather/seasonal allergens.



But like others said....different dog foods suit different dogs. When I had two at the same time, I actually bought two different dog foods.

And again quoting from above, I usually look for lots of energy, good poop, shiny hair, clear skin...so long as they eat fairly willingly, appetite doesn't concern me that much. The last thing I want to get involved in is having to add little treats to get a dog to eat his food. What you have is what you get, puppers.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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I think the environmental allergies could play a part in it it was a really dry dusty summer and my dogs are farm dogs so they run through different vegetation. He’s coat is a pretty nice his hair might be slightly thin in a spot or two but I’m thinking instead of another dog food switch maybe it would be best to try salmon oil to help his skin and coat.

And I wasn’t aware of the dcm grainfree connection and while taste of the wild does have .12% taurine in it he currently is on diamond extreme athlete which is high protein and 91% of the protein is sourced from chicken and eggs which are high in taurine. And it’s a limited grain food no corn,soy, or wheat. While I’m not gonna jump to conclusions about the grainfree dcm connection it’s cause for thought that’s for sure. And he’s got food enegy on the diamond extreme athlete as well as little to no gas and good bowel movements. And I know diamond has had its recalls but they have done well the last 6 years and they now have a 150 point inspection of thier dog food products including taste of the wild since it’s a diamond product as well.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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This picture is pretty current of him
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 08:24 AM
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I wouldn't feed TOTW personally. There's currently a class action lawsuit against the company for the food containing pesticides and heavy metals.

https://truthaboutpetfood.com/taste-...ction-lawsuit/
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:16 PM
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I agree on not feeding TOTW, in fact I won't/wouldn't feed anything Diamond. I much prefer the smaller companies such as Fromm, Victor, Life's Abundance, etc.


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I fed victor for about 3 months and during that time his hair wasn’t that great. Like other people said it could be environmental things that set that off. I’m thinking about supplementing fish oil in effort to help his hair and skin
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 03:44 PM
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Hello so Iím just hoping to get some opinions on taste of the wild dog food and also gather thoughts on whether or not kcals per cup is something to live by. So Iíve always fed my boy 30/20 formulas whether itís been pro plan sport, victor hi pro plus , diamond naturals extreme athlete, 4 health performance all of those formulas range from 400kcal per cup to 475 kcal per cup and he eats 5 cups daily split between 2 feedings so roughly he has always gotten 2000 to 2200 kcal a day but taste of the wild ranges from 360-390ish kcal per cup which at 5 cups a day is 1800 kcal to 1900kcal.
I don't usually do a lot of checking on kcal per cup because I have used ProPlan salmon and rice (that's it's original name--it's on it's 4th name now and the grain isn't rice any more and it's name is ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach and through all of the name and ingredient changes it is now 429 kcal per cup and that's within a few points of what it's been all along. I had one dog who I fed a mix of the Focus and ProPlan Sport during the winter because I really only wanted to add some calories but not have to increase the quantity of food.

Quote:
And while the foods Iíve fed him have been free from corn wheat and soy Iíve heard some foods that are limited grain like that have empty calories in them versus grain free diets donít have empty calories and Iíve also heard that grain free just subs out barley, sorghum , or Millet for lentils, pea protein, or sweet potatoes which in some of my research people think itís just preference when it gets down to it. I was hoping to gather opinions or observations and please donít recommend feeding raw thatís no currently a good option for me thank you.
The Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach (grain based) is now barley (salmon is the first ingredient, barley is the second) ground rice, canola meal and oat meal. Over the years although I've tried some of the newer kibbles I've had such consistent good luck with ProPlan's salmon (and whatever grain) that since I've not found anything that my dogs did better on I just stick to it. They like it, eat like they are starving, their coats are glossy, poops are solid and fairly small and in general I don't find that they have a whole lot of gas.

I've got some opinions though. None of my dogs, ever,has been allergic to any food--with the exception of a Dobe back in the late 60's who was allergic to egg whites. Broke out in instant hives--so he got egg yolks and the other dog got all the egg whites and an egg yolk. So I really can't even think why I picked up some grain free kibble to try. I had three dogs at the time--2 Dobes and an Australian Shepherd. I tried two different brands of "grain free" and in both cases 1 Dobe ended up with cow pie poops (different Dobe on different brand)--the Aussie got to finish the grain free--he said "meh--it's OK".

I've been reading the studies as they have come out on the dietary cardio showing up in breeds who do not usually have high numbers of DCM. It isn't so much entirely related to grain free but rather specifically most often showing up in "grain free" kibbles where the substituted carb is a legume--most often either peas or lentils. At least that's what I've gleaned from the stuff I'm reading and recently one of the vets (I work in a vet clinic) went to a nutrition seminar and said that's what the experts who were lecturing said too.

If the limited grain diets are substituting sorghum, Barley or millet they better not be calling it grain free--those are grains. Usually the grain free diets substitute pea, lentil or potato (white potato)--or sweet potato. The legumes are being looked at carefully because most of the cardio dogs from not usually subject to high numbers of cardio are eating diets that have legumes as the substitute carb. I know one dermatologist who routinely takes skin problem dogs off diet that use white potatoes as the substitute carb source. And I know another dermatologist who recommends diets for tested or suspected allergy dogs be put on a diet which uses sweet potato for a sub for grains as a carb source.

Here's an FYI--years ago when lamb was being touted as the thing to feed dogs with food allergies--I tried three different types of kibble--two had rice as the carb and 1 had pea as the carb source. Because after food all of those diets after a couple of weeks all of the Dobes (3 of them) had lost weight and all of their coats looked like trash. The lamb and pea was the worst for coats--I threw that away but I never bought any more lamb and anything--I thought then and still think that lamb as a protein source is missing something that Dobes need.

And a final comment--about taurine--there are studies going on about taurine in a dogs diet--but my sources say that the best sources for tauine are red meat (specifically--poultry is not high in taurine and as far as I know neither are eggs) and heart is very high in taurine. But there are studies about taurine in the diet of most dogs. Dogs make their own taurine (it's kind of like the deal with Vitamin C--everything makes Vitamin C except for guinea pigs, fruit bats and humans). There are cases--and they've been written up and peer reviewed about the value of taurine in a dogs diet as a supplement. There are some breeds (Boxers are the one I remember) who have some dogs who have a genetic failure of the ability to produce taurine on their own. They can tested and if they aren't making their own they would benefit from a supplement. Dobermans don't have DCM because of a taurine deficiency--or at least that would not be a primary cause. Dobes have a type of DCM which is pretty much agreed to be genetic. Cats, on the other hand don't make their own taurine and develop a specific type of cardio if they don't have a source of raw meat or diets that contain taurine as an added supplement. So in the early years of manufactured cat food we were all killing our cats because of the lack of taurine in their diet--they pretty much all died young from cardiomegly.

I've asked every vet cardiologist I've ever talked to about that and links to hypothyroidism and Dobeman DCM. None of the cardiologists seem to think that there is a direct correlation to either.

I didn't intend for this to become a book--I'll get off my soapbox now...

Last edited by dobebug; 11-21-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 03:57 PM
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What bug said^^^^

(Nice word wall bug!)

Happy day after Toad!

John
Portland OR
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 04:09 PM
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What bug said^^^^

(Nice word wall bug!)

Happy day after Toad!

John
Portland OR
Hey, STJ--I put paragraphs in for topics.

Toad says I'm going to have to mop the kitchen floor cuz' he is still finding little blobs of butter or marionberry jam.

Word wall indeed!
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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That’s extremely insightful well I will finish the food he’s eating which will be about a month I raised him on Purina pro plan sport 30/20 chicken flavor and he was consistently gaining his weight and did well on it then he developed diarrhea out of no where as did all my dogs who were eating it with him. I did come back to it but his interest was limited at best. I have yet to try the salmon flavor or the sensitive skin formula at that but I might try it out depending on how he does moving forward.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 07:46 PM
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Good opportunity for me to get opinions on Dehydrated Food.........so far I have tried ďSpot FarmsĒ Chicken..............initially was considering changing to a raw diet but raw diet appears to require some prep work so opted to try ďdehydratedĒ .....so far so good......smells like apples.....
.......two thirds still kibble.........the rest is dehydrated and Hoss loves this stuff..

Hoss
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