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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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WTH - illegal to import cropped and docked dogs

So my hubby and I are in Israel and were supposed to only be here until March but he was just offered a really good position within his company and now they want us here for much...longer....
We are starting the process of bringing Doc over here. I was talking to some dog people at a show a couple weeks ago and they said it is illegal to import dogs into the country that are cropped and docked but I noticed dogs at the show that were cropped and docked so I was really confused. Then I found out that as long as the dog was born before July 2010, then they can come over.
Okay, so Doc is in the clear... but... this really struck a negative chord with me.

How many other countries have this law in place? I knew Israel had outlawed cropping and docking but you could still import cropped/docked dogs from other countries but now that is gone as well. WTH?

At the end of February there is a Doberman show here, I plan to attend and see what is in store for the breed here.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:13 AM
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Hmmm odd. Cropping is banned here in NZ, but you can still import cropped dogs (just can't compete in anything with 'em).


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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:17 AM
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Unfortunately the animal rights groups overseas are getting more and more teeth in regards to C/D regulations. Now this depends entirely on the country but... If the show you saw was an International show, cropped and docked dogs are usually allowed to participate. However they are generally barred from regional and national level shows. Again it depends on the country and I'm not sure about Israel.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:17 AM
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I know it is a growing trend in the EU countries which is too, too bad. But to not even import one. That sucks. I know some of the countries have no crop or dock laws but you could still import one.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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The show I was at was international but there were no dobes there... I'm still trying to figure out how it works here in Israel. I think it may have been a show for only spitz breeds, herding breeds and hounds. The breed that was cropped/docked there was the black Russian terrier... how exactly they fit in there, I'm not too sure. Another show occurred that I didn't attend because of the weather but there were 10 dobes there and a Gem'Givveeon male took second place. He had cropped/docked ears but was born before July 2010. I was so bummed I missed that show... I would have been so happy to see some Dobermans!
I plan to ask a lot of questions at the show in February... I can't believe it is illegal to even import cropped/docked dogs.

Last edited by annolyn; 01-31-2012 at 03:27 AM. Reason: forgot stuffs
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 06:29 AM
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You cannot bring cropped/docked dogs into Switzerland. We had a poster on here looking for a NA dog with natural tail and ears to bring into her family in Switzerland. She was having a hard time finding a good breeder who would leave a tail on for her.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 07:06 AM
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It's such a stupid law, and has no benifit to dogs what so ever. Nothing like loosing more of your rights because someone wants to force thier beliefs on you.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 07:48 AM
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We have pretty much the same restrictions as NZ here is Aust.

From memory the restrictive crop/dock laws only just came in in Israel last year...or was it the year before?

What part of Israel are you in? I stayed in Jerusalem (Mevaseret) when I was there. I miss the falafels, shawarma and burekkas so much....best food anywhere!

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 08:01 AM
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curious as to where the shows are being held in Israel, I haven't been there in years, but was amazed at how few dogs I saw, but tons of cats, everywhere!

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 08:36 AM
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This is a prime example of just how dangerous the cropped and docked laws are - Government trying to impose and destroy breed standards. America MUST hold out and uphold the standard of our breed at all cost. The AR groups are just waiting for the law to cave in here and then they can go after purebred dogs, dog shows will become a thinf of the past because they are cruel BLAH BLAH BLAH.

We must stand for our breed standard because next you won't be able to import Dobermans, GSD, Rotties, Akita, and on and on it goes.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 09:44 AM
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This is a prime example of just how dangerous the cropped and docked laws are - Government trying to impose and destroy breed standards. America MUST hold out and uphold the standard of our breed at all cost. The AR groups are just waiting for the law to cave in here and then they can go after purebred dogs, dog shows will become a thinf of the past because they are cruel BLAH BLAH BLAH.

We must stand for our breed standard because next you won't be able to import Dobermans, GSD, Rotties, Akita, and on and on it goes.
This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.


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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 10:36 AM
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Another show occurred that I didn't attend because of the weather but there were 10 dobes there and a Gem'Givveeon male took second place. He had cropped/docked ears but was born before July 2010.
That was Gem'Givveeon Arktur who finished CAC;CACIB;BOB;BIG-2 on day.Arktur is my Nika's littermate.
If you wish, i can find out for you exact detailed info on the law in Israel from Arkturs owner.

This is a good list for Cropping and docking regulations by country, but Israel is not included
Info Library > Cropping and docking

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 11:12 AM
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This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
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I for one am very concerned when anyone trys to take away freedoms and create laws.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 11:29 AM
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This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to the very dogs you love. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"

Last edited by ZeldaRules; 01-31-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 11:40 AM
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I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to dogs. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"
Bingo!
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 11:45 AM
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I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to dogs. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"
Your Opinion totally resonates with me, working in a vet clinic I see many dogs being put down for No Good Reason. " Vicious" dogs have nothing to do with the breed and the fact the government tries to control our lives to the extent of controlling the TYPE of dog we can own is mind boggling. I understand people against cropping and docking but I also know many of those people would be very offended if I told them that feeding there dogs to the point of morbid obesity is animal cruelty in my eyes. JMO people have opinions until it directly effects them than generally that opinion changes.



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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 11:50 AM
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Bingo!
I don't want to get into an abortion debate but it's a good point. Pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean pro abortion. There are many people against abortions that are pro-choice because they understand the dangers posed when allowing more government control and stripping away our rights. Do you think if abortion is banned everywhere that people will stop getting them? You'd be real naive. Same with a blanket c/d ban. People aren't going to stop. Why force them to have to do hack jobs in their basements in unsterile environments? AR radicals don't realize that their imposing their personal opinions onto the group as a whole can have very negative effects, and in turn creates more abuse. Do you think that in the cities where pit bulls are banned every single pit bull lover is abiding by that law? Yeaaaah no.
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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 12:35 PM
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(quote) don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. (quote)

It is definitley not far fetched - If the Government actually wins in America and can stop cropping an docking here then it actually means the Government now controls our breed standard and the freedom to maintain our dogs as a cropped and docked breed is gone. That then opens up the next door the AR groups want to lead us down and that is the banning of all "working breeds" that are being deemend "dangerous" all over the world.

The Government IMHO needs to worry about solving hunger, unemployment, economy, inflation, crime, etc before it has time to take on breed standards. If you think it is not all tied together in the AR minds then you might want to follow a little more closely the BSL issue that come across the country every day.

The real issue is not about cropping and docking but about our rights as a breed club to uphold our standard. Have you ever known anything the govt got involved in that did not end up costing us more money - watsted resources and laws that can't be enforced???

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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 12:54 PM
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You would think that Israel would have better things to worry about other than C/D dogs.
If the present course of events continues, you could see C/D laws coming to a country near you. Cass Sunstein, the present presidential administation's reguatory czar has assisted PETA type groups to pass such laws in the past. This is the guy that thinks all animals should have a tax payer funded lawer so they can sue their owners.
Just sayin'
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 01:05 PM
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In another forum Susan said that it would be to the detriment of the actual quality of the dog I thought? Perhaps I misread that. I will check again. Or Susan can you clarify if you believe that IF c/d were banned that the quality of the dogs would be less?

As for the standard of the breed and government legislation, would an analogy be that Pit Bulls were bred as fighting dogs and now dog fighting is illegal?


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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 01:32 PM
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In another forum Susan said that it would be to the detriment of the actual quality of the dog I thought? Perhaps I misread that. I will check again. Or Susan can you clarify if you believe that IF c/d were banned that the quality of the dogs would be less?

Well its certainly fair to say that since the crop and dock ban in Germany Dobermann's have been bred in fewer and fewer numbers as each year has passed. That shirking gene pool has not done the breed any favor as far as I"m concerned.
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 01:35 PM
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I don't want to get into an abortion debate but it's a good point. Pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean pro abortion. There are many people against abortions that are pro-choice because they understand the dangers posed when allowing more government control and stripping away our rights. Do you think if abortion is banned everywhere that people will stop getting them? You'd be real naive. Same with a blanket c/d ban. People aren't going to stop. Why force them to have to do hack jobs in their basements in unsterile environments? AR radicals don't realize that their imposing their personal opinions onto the group as a whole can have very negative effects, and in turn creates more abuse. Do you think that in the cities where pit bulls are banned every single pit bull lover is abiding by that law? Yeaaaah no.
That is also a very good point. There are so many things just like that too.

I always feel bad for pit bull owners. What's crazy, is I have never ever in my life seen and vicious pit bull. All the pits I've ever met were great dogs. One of the smartest and well trained dogs I have ever seen was a pit bull name Rouge. She was so smart and well behaved. I remember a Jack Russell somehow barged into my yard when my friend brought her over and got very agressive with her. I felt so bad for her. She just looked up at her owner with the saddest eyes and just did nothing until we pulled the little hell hound away. Kinda surprised that Russell's aren't classified as vicious LOL!

To me, most of the laws and politics created are based on ignorance and fear. It's the idiocracy that drives so many nations to the ground. What's scary is that it seems to be spreading. All you have to do is turn on your TV and behold it.
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 02:39 PM
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Well its certainly fair to say that since the crop and dock ban in Germany Dobermann's have been bred in fewer and fewer numbers as each year has passed. That shirking gene pool has not done the breed any favor as far as I"m concerned.
Oh good. So when The Doberman Gang came out and everyone wanted a Doberman they got better all of a sudden.

ETA: it isn't the numbers of litters bred, but who is doing the breeding.

Look, I am all for C/D. I have a C/D dog. She is great. But, if the laws in the country say you can't import one, then you can't import one. For you folks that see Big Brother everywhere you turn, vote against every bill about banning you want. Write letters to your officials stating your opinion of the ban. I am just tired of this stupid debate and how some people get so condescending to natural dogs.


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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 02:56 PM
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Nothing against floppy eared Dobermans here. I almost adopted one and have fostered a few. I just firmly believe in the right to have a choice. I believe that once those freedoms are taken away, much bigger problems arise. I am not paranoid about the government but I am also not naive.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 03:51 PM
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This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
Fewer and fewer people understand liberty. When your liberty is gone what is left?
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