Looking for American Breeder - Natural Ears and with a Natural Tail! - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 03:13 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Looking for American Breeder - Natural Ears and with a Natural Tail!

Hello everyone

I live in Switzerland and am doing my 'homework' already for getting my future Dobermann.
Cropping and Docking is illegal in most western European Countries and I can therefore not import a Dog from the States that is cropped or docked ( I can't even adopt one!).
The laws are very strict here and the dog is confiscated and the owner is fined heavily. It is considered cruel here, but that is another topic.
I admit that the Dobermann looks more regal cropped, but I also have to say I LOVE the natural look and I love how the Dobermann expresses himself with the natural tail (never mind how fast he can swim with one!). Anyway as I already wrote, that is another story in itself.

The reason why I do NOT want a Dog from Germany and Switzerland is because of their Temperament. American Dobermanns are calmer and not as nervos and hyperactive. Since I want to train my next dog as a Therapy Dog, it is vital that I get a calm and even tempered dog.
I went to the Swiss National Dobermann Day last Sunday and saw many European Dobes and that was enough to convince me yet again that I definitely do not want a Dobe from a European bloodline (unless of course there is a breeder that breeds a totally different 'version' of the European Dogs).

Now my big problem is finding a reputable breeder that will sell me a dog that is 'natural eared and tailed' and of course one that takes Health testing seriously. This is proving to be VERY DIFFICULT!!!!!
Once I find the right breeder, I will visit them at least twice before choosing the puppy. I am trying to do everything correctly and taking a lot of time to do research etc. about health issues, training etc., but it is so frustrating that up to now every American Breeder that I have contacted shuts the door in my face when they hear 'natural tail'. Some even react aggressively. I just don't understand this.

PLEASE HELP!!!! :confused2

I would greatly appreciate your feedback on possible Breeders.

Thanks so much!

Greetings from Switzerland
Jennifer
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 03:23 AM
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Good luck, I agree you will find it hard to find a good breeder that will sell you an all natural dog. Have you considered perhaps looking at importing from Australia? Many Australian dogs are from North American lines, and cropping and docking is illegal there too. I know there are a few people on the forum that have looked at trying to get an all natural puppy in America and have not had much luck. I think the way most people try to go about getting a natural puppy in America is by contacting Euro breeders, but that isn't much help for you!

I wish you good luck, I love the all natural Dobermans too


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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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I have heard that the Australian Dobermanns are very similiar in temperament to the American ones.
I cannot fly to Australia to get my Dog - it's just way too long of a trip and I wouldn't want to put my puppy through that ordeal.
My German Pinscher already has emotional scars from travelling just to the States. He was in the cargo hold and now whenever we go through a tunnel (which we have a lot here) he gets a panic attack - this happened since the flight. So, I don't want to travel more than needed - not to mention that the plane ticket to Australia would cost and arm and a leg!!!

I am hoping someone will see my post and know of a breeder in the STates - I'm not giving up!!!


thanks for the suggestion though!
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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 06:24 AM
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good luck. my all natural dog came from rescue!

chris who owns an all natural bitch (quinna) has said that she would have left one all natural for me (von Moeller Hof Dobermans ) just bred her bitch recently and i believe when i last spoke to her was speaking of breeding again in the future, but would have to know in advance - and again, this isn't american lines but in fact a german dog in america so that's not even what you are looking for... she's on this board rarely. quinna is a lovely bitch and i want to steal her and if my little all natural child ends up half the dog she is, ill be thrilled

but as for a 100% american breeding that is left all natural, i think you're going to be out of luck. at least for the time being. check back with us in a decade or so... i was actually looking for working lines, but the timing wasn't right and then my little blue girl was dropped into my lap at the right time.


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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 06:58 AM
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I couldn't find one that would even leave me ears, let alone a tail. I had to go to Canada to get my puppy, he has ears, but no tail. You can't blame the American confirmation breeders, tails get docked at 3 days old, and ears cropped at 8 weeks, litters aren't graded for show potential until after both of those procedures. A breeder could let a valuable show potential go as pet quality. Also....in our country if a Dobe needs to be placed in a new home at some point, it is much easier to find a home with a docked, cropped dog. The only people on this board who will let a dog go with ears are the working breeders with Euro lines, and most want to know you.

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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 08:30 AM
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Sorry you will look long and not find it. You will not find a reputable breeder in the U.S. who does not do the tails and ears. This is done when its not too painful for the pup at 3 days. (tails) So at that point nobody knows which or what except the sex of the pup.
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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 09:24 AM
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I thought from your previous thread that you were going to look in the UK?

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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 10:41 AM
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Like i said in your other thread, Australia.. its not even that much further away than America....
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 11:29 AM
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I would look in the UK. You will be hard pressed to find what you want in the US or Canada. The UK would be closer too.



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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 11:56 AM
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Just to let you know, my therapy dog's sire was from European bloodlines and had a SchIII. I was not interested in working my dog in sport at all, but knew I wanted a therapy dog. The temperament of the sire was one of the main reasons I went with the breeder I chose. One person who knew the sire told me that she would let her grandmother take him into a classroom of kindergarten children with only a string around his neck. The dam was a Canadian bred conformation champion with a lovely disposition too. You need to be researching individual dogs and their temperaments. It is true that many working dogs do not have a "laid-back" personality that would be great for therapy dog work but there are some who are truly rock steady with no hyper behavior at all. Don't assume that all European Dobermans have hyper temperaments. Look for breeders who are more into conformation showing than sport titling. Also, have you researched to see if there are any breeders in Sweden who have imported American dogs into their lines?

Good luck!

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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 06:30 PM
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i believe Elaine Hopper of Starlaine Dobermans has sold a natural puppy, and they are a 100% American show breeder.

so, i don't think it's 'impossible' but you need to talk to a breeder, build a relationship and get on a waiting list prior to the whelping. don't let some hard work detour you from what you really want, i wouldn't settle.

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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 07:17 PM
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Mysti also had European lines in her and she had the sweetest most calm temperament I have ever seen of a dobe. She was a great therapy dog, loved to be petted, and trained very easy and fast. Nexus is an American bred always on the go never slow down dober-girl, the complete opposite of what Mysti was, and Bella is shaping up to be quite a calm even tempered little girl as well, and she has European breeding also. I was always under the impression that the Euro dogs were calmer, and the American bred were the energized, more suited for agility type dogs.

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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 12:36 AM
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I agree with the others that say look at some UK breeders. I think you'll find it extremely difficult to find an American breeder that would leave ears and tail AND would be willing to ship their pup overseas. You might want to speak to more breeders in Europe, they might be able to pick out the right pup for you....not all pups in a litter will be high drive. Good luck.

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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
good luck. my all natural dog came from rescue!

chris who owns an all natural bitch (quinna) has said that she would have left one all natural for me (von Moeller Hof Dobermans ) just bred her bitch recently and i believe when i last spoke to her was speaking of breeding again in the future, but would have to know in advance - and again, this isn't american lines but in fact a german dog in america so that's not even what you are looking for... she's on this board rarely. quinna is a lovely bitch and i want to steal her and if my little all natural child ends up half the dog she is, ill be thrilled

but as for a 100% american breeding that is left all natural, i think you're going to be out of luck. at least for the time being. check back with us in a decade or so... i was actually looking for working lines, but the timing wasn't right and then my little blue girl was dropped into my lap at the right time.
/Quinna fan just from photos but her breeder was very gracious when I complimented her on Q. I'm a c/d person but Quinna looks like she jumped out of another era, gorgeous. Nice to know someone on the board has met Quinna.

Op best wishes on your search. I find it mind blowing that one might ever move to a C/D ban country and have to leave their dogs behind due to C/D? Ugh
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkischic View Post
i believe Elaine Hopper of Starlaine Dobermans has sold a natural puppy, and they are a 100% American show breeder.
.
Elaine sold a cropped/docked dog to an established Australian breeder, who imported the dog after he finished his Am. championship.



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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 11:17 PM
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Indeed you will find it extremely difficult. I wouldn't say impossible, but very difficult. It will require a huge amount of effort to establish a relationship with the breeder in advance to get them to agree. I don't think the no-cropping is such an issue as the no-docking. You'd have to find a breeder that is more concerned about making sure the dog is in a good HOME rather than one that is so concerned with making sure every puppy ends up in a 'show home.' I personally would consider it on a case by case basis, however, it's doubtful that the co-owners of my bitches would be fond of the idea.

But I agree with others, you should check out dogs in the UK. I believe the temperament you are looking for you are very likely to find there, and it would not be as difficult for you to travel to visit some breeders and their dogs.

As far as Austraila.... anyone who thinks that Australia is 'not much farther than US' from Switzerland should take a look at a map....

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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 11:24 PM
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 04:13 AM
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I didn't actually mean it like I said it so please dont be rude.

I was trying say if you are going to fly a puppy any way, whats a little extra distance, the only place I can think of with AMERICAN STYLE dobermanns that are all natural is Australia.

Also flight distance from USA to Switzerland is 8,012 km and from Australia it is 14,773 km..

Not quite double but EITHER way is a long way for a pup.

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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 08:31 PM
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another vote of support to not write all euro dobes off as too much to handle....My boy daims was euro bloodlines from a long line of working dogs and Shutz and was totally unflappable and brilliant with children and large crowd situations and he was entire! I could trust him totally to never react unless a genuine threat (attack) was occurring and he would always warn and hold first if the situation allowed for it. ...yet children could love all over him (one even sat on his head once!!!) and he wouldn't even growl, let alone react. There are euro dogs out there with very good nerve that would make brilliant therapy dogs due to their soundness and discernment.

Pretty much all dobes are a bit of a handful (high energy) when they're juvenile, but those with a sound temperment, combined with good training and love mature at around the age of four into very stable and people (including children and puppies) friendly dogs.

The other option might be to see if any local breeders plan on a breeding using frozen semen from the US.

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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australdi View Post
another vote of support to not write all euro dobes
The other option might be to see if any local breeders plan on a breeding using frozen semen from the US.
I get the impression that most Dobe breeders in europe wouldnt be 'caught dead' using frozen semen from US.... but maybe I am wrong?

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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 10:22 PM
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What don`t you like in European Dobermans?
I own two and could not be happier with their temperament and look.


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his owner can express with his tongue in hours"


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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 12:48 AM
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i think they've stated they've been to dog shows in their country and have seen/met their fair share of european dobermans-- they don't want one, probably more aesthetically speaking.

and that's totally okay, wanting an au naturale doberman from an american pedigree doesn't guarantee you a laid back dog though. dobermans in general are energetic, regardless of their continent of birth or origin. it will take some time to get what you want, so you have to be patient.

and cheryl, yes i know of JJ. she's also stated on the forum she has sold an uncropped puppy.

something clever goes here.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 03:49 AM
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What about any of the breeders in Brazil or the Philippines? Some breeders grade at birth do they not? if the op does not want a show dog surely if they put down a deposit a breeder could send one natural?
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 06:21 AM
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I would never trust any breeder of Dobermans that claims they can grade them at birth unless you are willing to take a puppy with a white spot or an obvious physical deformity. The only breeds that I know of that can be "graded at birth" are a few "head breeds" that are looking for a specific head shape. These can sometimes be judgeed somewhat reliably at birth, but I not believe body structure can be evaluated at that age.

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightgrace6 View Post
What about any of the breeders in Brazil or the Philippines? Some breeders grade at birth do they not? if the op does not want a show dog surely if they put down a deposit a breeder could send one natural?
tails are done around 3 days of age. if you have not spoken to a show breeder to build a relationship, obviously stating the fact that you want the puppy left natural, prior to a litter being born then there is no way you could get an undocked puppy.

a breeder is pretty much taking a stab in the dark, when it comes to show breeders, by leaving a puppy natural because by the time they're able to show some potential.. that puppy could be the best puppy of the litter so it's a gamble for them too i suppose.

something clever goes here.
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all natural , american breeder , natural ears , natural tail , quinna

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