Looking for American Breeder - Natural Ears and with a Natural Tail! - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 04:50 PM
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Puppies can be graded at birth quite successfully. What you see at birth is what you will see at maturity. I have witnessed this many, many times. In many different breeds. I once watched a breeder hold up a new born pup and say.......this IS the one I have been waiting for! This puppy.......went on to be one of the Best her breed has ever seen.

But then some cannot even 'see' conformation at maturity.

You can see it all in a puppy who is still wet from birthing. Other than teeth, testicles and temperment. But hopefull the breeder who plans a breeding, knows their pedigrees well, and have bred for teeth, testicles and correct temperment, along with correct conformation.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 05:45 PM
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I know of some breeders that do tails at 8 weeks under sedation so by then they would have graded the pups also... (before this gets shot down this is a breeder that A LOT of people rave about on DT, also a few other mighty fine breeders from Aus).

Agree with Darkevs, know of some breeders who grade from birth and grade well....
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 06:44 PM
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what breeder are you talking about?

cause i'd like to know the reasoning about placing a puppy under for that long for cropping and docking, other than a condition that occurred after the initial dock.

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 07:54 PM
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I think the largest reason you'll have trouble finding a breeder who will provide you with the dog you're looking for is distance. As it is, most breeders hesitate to send a dog to another country, even one very close. This is because if they've made a mistake judging the new owner (and this is a dangerous enough mistake when they're in their own country) they have no legal ground to get it back, with even the best contract there is no way to back it up. And if for any reason the new home can't keep the dog, what are the chances they'll send it all the way back? Your average home wouldn't send the dog all the way back to America, they would put the dog in a rescue or sell it themselves.

So it's not just about leaving the puppy natural, it's about that little puppies safety!

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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightgrace6 View Post
I know of some breeders that do tails at 8 weeks under sedation so by then they would have graded the pups also... (before this gets shot down this is a breeder that A LOT of people rave about on DT, also a few other mighty fine breeders from Aus).

Agree with Darkevs, know of some breeders who grade from birth and grade well....
I've been to too many litter grading parties thrown by different breeders when their litters were 8 weeks old to believe it's common and to be expected that breeders are doing binding litter grading on puppies that are still wet.

A lot of breeders may have tails repaired to reduce scarring at ear cropping time,but I think it would be pretty unusual for one to have the initial docking done then-certainly not the norm.



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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightgrace6 View Post
I know of some breeders that do tails at 8 weeks under sedation so by then they would have graded the pups also... (before this gets shot down this is a breeder that A LOT of people rave about on DT, also a few other mighty fine breeders from Aus).

Agree with Darkevs, know of some breeders who grade from birth and grade well....
That's a heck of a lot harder on the pups than doing it between 3 and 5 days.

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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 08:18 PM
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I just heard from a breeder in Greece who said that they do it at 12 days. No answer when I asked if they used anesthiesia.

ETA: tail docks at 12 days


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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 09:05 PM
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Well we got our boy in US from a reputable DPCA breeder and once we contacted her and new we were getting a pup I spoke with her about not getting his ears cropped. She had already done the tails (at 3 days) and the ears I believe were done at 6 or 7 weeks. We lucked out with the timing but she was very understanding as to why we did not want the ears done and didn't have a problem at all with leaving them natural.

Unfortunately I believe her last litter is for this fall. Most likely already spoken for... or close to it. So sad because we were looking to add another sometime next year..

<3Stacey and Moose <3

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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by punkischic View Post
and cheryl, yes i know of JJ. she's also stated on the forum she has sold an uncropped puppy.
As I remember, she placed an uncropped puppy with someone who'd already owned one of her dogs. IOW-the home had already proven themselves through direct experience.



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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation

hi everybody
i have read all the comments and i guess i need to narrow it down a little so that you can help me better in finding what i want

i am looking for a dobermann with a CALM temperament and low prey drive - this is the reason why i do not want to get a dobe with german, autrian, swiss, and eastern block blood lines. i want to do therapy work with my dog. i am a certified dog trainer and already have a super high drive german pinscher so i know what i want!

i am a dog freak - i love dogs and have done A LOT of research in what iwant as a dog. i have loved the dobe ever since i can remember.
i have visited SO MANY breeders in switzerland and germany, visited every single dog show here to talk to breeders and can therefore say to 99% that i DO NOT want a dobermann from central europe (this is not including the UK). i have also done research via the internet, called breeders and have yet to find what i'm looking for. i will find a great breeder but they mostly have a problem with leaving the tail - the ears are not the problem.

i have gone to at least 6 dog shows in the states to talk to breeders and i have met the dobes that were showing and was extremely impressed with their dispositions. you could touch every one of them - try and do that at a show here!
the american dobe is known to be calmer and different from the european dobe. personally i like the look of the european dobe better (stockier, shorter neck and natural ears/tail) but that is secondary.

i will not go and look for a dobe in australia, south america or anywhere else that is so far away - even though i am sure the dogs are also of great quality there. it is extremely far for me and a puppy to fly. it's either the usa, or the uk.

i plan to visit the breeder at least 2x before i personally pick up my puppy. i would never allow a breeder to just send a puppy without me even laying eye on it. i also understand the need of the breeder to want to get to know me and i am prepared to visit them as much as they need to see me.

european breeders are very thorough with health testing - especially for DCM which is the biggest problem here and of course cancer and i don't know how thorough american or other breeders are.

regarding the tail - i will most likely just have to wait until the states also starts going 'natural' - which would be great. with most european countries not allowing docking and cropping, it will become more and more common for american breeders getting requests to sell natural dogs to europeans etc.
i am on it and am doing my homework - there has to be one out there that does this and fills all my criteria!!!:confused2

so if any of you know of any possible breeders that would sell me a pup that is certified, health tested, of a calm disposition, natural (ears and tail)..... PLEASE LET ME KNOW. i am more than grateful for all input.

i just thought i would be more specific in what i am looking for since i had so many answers (by the way - thanks again!).

sincerely
jennifer
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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 03:40 AM
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Just look at a couple of Australia most successful breeders and you'll figure it out. Since docking is not allowed in Australia many are sending whole litters to be docked in NZ later on.

I still think all dobes are "crazy" its about how you train them.

I hope the states does not go "au natural"...

Last edited by nightgrace6; 07-12-2011 at 03:43 AM.
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murreydobe View Post
As I remember, she placed an uncropped puppy with someone who'd already owned one of her dogs. IOW-the home had already proven themselves through direct experience.
yes, i remember as well.

OP, like i stated before, building a relationship with a breeder is what will get your foot in the door in terms of acquiring a natural puppy. that being said, the US probably will not go "natural" like other countries any time soon so your best bet is to talk to breeders who have at least shown natural eared dogs.

Jeseran comes to mind.

something clever goes here.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 08:27 AM
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[QUOTE=landikon;932133]
The reason why I do NOT want a Dog from Germany and Switzerland is because of their Temperament.




:confused2:confused2:confused2:confused2
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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
The reason why I do NOT want a Dog from Germany and Switzerland is because of their Temperament.
????????????????????

Excatly my thoughts Anneliese, there are so many breeders who breed terrific puppies, no need for the reason QP mentioned to get one from the states. to be honest I think you must do more homework.....
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 10:20 AM
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Aritaur breed both German Pinschers and Dobermanns au naturale. They do all of the health testing on their dogs that you are likely to see with reputable breeders in the USA, and they are also pretty great judges of character and what you want/need in a dog imho. They have the experience as breeders. They send puppies to other countries, one went to the USA for one of their litters in the past year.

I think the UK has what you want, you just need to be patient and get to know a decent breeder. There are a bunch of dobes in the UK doing therapy work.

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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 06:27 PM
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Aritaur dobes are simply the best imo,check out their website.
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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 06:32 PM
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wow- Dobes living the good life! Wonder if they will adopt me

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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landikon View Post
i am looking for a dobermann with a CALM temperament and low prey drive - this is the reason why i do not want to get a dobe with german, autrian, swiss, and eastern block blood lines. i want to do therapy work with my dog. i am a certified dog trainer and already have a super high drive german pinscher so i know what i want!
You need to do more research.
I had a super hyper male bred in NA.
My current male Gino is the calmest dog I have ever owned.
His sire is Ramon Betelges bred in Eastern Europe.


"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than
his owner can express with his tongue in hours"


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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 09:55 PM
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I think that you have not looked hard enough. Not every euro. doberman is going to be high drive with a bad temperament. Have you looked at this breeder? www.mezzrow.se

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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 10:10 PM
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[That's a heck of a lot harder on the pups than doing it between 3 and 5 days.]

Yes I know its not very nice but I guess those are the extremes some are going to to combat our anti-docking laws..

Like I have stated numerous times, I do not think any Dobermanns are born CALM, my American girl is very active and has a high drive, I think all dobes can be trained to be CALM but CALM is not something I think a breeder, whichever lines they breed, breed for any way...?
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post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
I think that you have not looked hard enough. Not every euro. doberman is going to be high drive with a bad temperament. Have you looked at this breeder? www.mezzrow.se
thanks for the tipp. unfortunately it's all in swedish and the link for english is not active
thanks anyway though!
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post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

thanks again everyone for all your comments.

when i mean calm, i am aware that i want a high energy breed and that the dobe is not a couch potato!
...but, there are HUGE differences!!!!
i have seen it countless times and it has also been mentioned in several books i have read that the american dobermann blood lines ARE different in temperament.
here in most of central europe, the dobermann is still bred as a working dog which is active in schutzhund, obedience, mondioring etc etce etc.
these dogs HAVE to be worked, otherwise they become distructive and unmanageable. their energy and prey drive levels are much higher than other blood lines. this is great for people that want that.
i cannot get a dog like this for therapy work - it would not be a good idea
it's like getting a malinois for therapy work - at least that's the closest analogy that i can come up with.

just wanted to make it clear that i know that the dobe is a temperamental dog, but there are definitely lower energy dobes out there....just not so many in switzerland and our neighboring countries. i have visited MANY breeders and been to countless dog shows - have yet to see it.

but please keep sending me links with possible breeders, i am contacting them and looking into everything you send me.

thanks again!
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post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 04:11 AM
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Your not considering a House of Hoytt dog after all the WONDERFUL suggestions you have been given here are you?
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post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landikon View Post
thanks again everyone for all your comments.

when i mean calm, i am aware that i want a high energy breed and that the dobe is not a couch potato!
...but, there are HUGE differences!!!!
i have seen it countless times and it has also been mentioned in several books i have read that the american dobermann blood lines ARE different in temperament.
here in most of central europe, the dobermann is still bred as a working dog which is active in schutzhund, obedience, mondioring etc etce etc.
these dogs HAVE to be worked, otherwise they become distructive and unmanageable. their energy and prey drive levels are much higher than other blood lines. this is great for people that want that.
i cannot get a dog like this for therapy work - it would not be a good idea
it's like getting a malinois for therapy work - at least that's the closest analogy that i can come up with.

just wanted to make it clear that i know that the dobe is a temperamental dog, but there are definitely lower energy dobes out there....just not so many in switzerland and our neighboring countries. i have visited MANY breeders and been to countless dog shows - have yet to see it.

but please keep sending me links with possible breeders, i am contacting them and looking into everything you send me.

thanks again!
I think what you might be trying to say is you want a dog w/an "Off" switch, which is reasonable, because calm + doberman not what someone should be expecting.
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post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-17-2011, 10:31 PM
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Quinna and next litter all natural?

Hi folks - just wanted to drop in and say thanks for the nice compliments regarding Quinna, my all natural dobergirl that I imported from Germany in 2007. She really is a nice bitch and I am very fortunate to have her.

I want to take this opportunity to tell you all that I am SERIOUSLY considering leaving tails (and ears) on the pups in my next litter. I am not sure when the next litter will happen - no earlier than winter 2012, but may be the heat after that. I would like to get the word out early to see if I can truly get a set of puppy buyers who are wanting a nice working pup with a tail. I know the Agility folks are starting to look for dobes with tails, and I don't blame them. The tail really does help with balance and direction.

I had such a time with tails and then with ears -- it really was the worst part of rearing a litter. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it now that I have an all-natural girl. Just seems like all I did in the early days was worry about how we were going to hack off their parts and when. And then many tails had to be re-done -- geez, made me really wonder about why we have to do all this.

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