Link to my OP :https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-cro...ther-help.html
It will be a long post. So please bear with me.
I almost messed up my pup's cropping. I was planning to take off his stitches on the 10th day. My resilient puppy took out of his bandages on 10th day. An e collar did not stop him. He was continuously hitting his left ear through the e collar. I took him to my my regular vet. But he said that his wounds hadn't healed and he will not remove his stitches till 15th day. He just took off the bandages and did not re tape them. His right ear which did not bear the brunt of his kicking was erect for days till 13th day. And the left ear which he kicked was was semi-erect. My puppy woke up even after the doctor sedated him. During his cropping surgery, he took 25 minutes to go to sleep after been given anesthesia. Both doctors said they hadn't seen such a puppy who fought off sedatives and anesthesia. He wanted his stitched ears to be exposed to air,He prescribed many antibiotics, anti itching pills with sedative effects. But that did not stop my dog doing his usual kicking. My regular vet asked me to increase his dose. But it felt like it had no effect on him. I couldn't sleep for 2 days due to his sounds of crying and kicking.
OK, I'm willing for you to make long posts and you'll have to put up with mine and you'll have to live with me repeating the things that I would in some cases done as opposed to the things you didn't do.
I was one of the people who suggested that you take the e-collar off the puppy as it usually provided more irritation than protection. I also told you that over many years and many puppies I found the if a puppy scratched at his ear and connected--it was quick punishment that generally stopped them from scratching after one or two such incidents.
At this point I suggest that I'd have removed the e-collar and that would allow the ears to be exposed to the air. I can only suggest that from years of experience, Dobe puppies are smart and if they kick an exposed ear and it hurts they are inclined to stop doing that. But the e-collar was providing enough protection that they weren't getting the object lesson of I kick, I connect, it hurts and I stop.
So that first. So next--what kind of sedation did he give the puppy or what kind of anesthesia? Was the anesthesia inhalent or an injectable?. In some respect it makes no difference, most Dobes are light weights when it comes to both sedation and anesthesia of any kind. So that surprises me and it obviously surprised your vets.
And by the way--I've never had a puppy who had to be sedated, much less anesthtised to remove stitches. And even though I have worked for a vet clinic for years now if I have a puppy from a breeder and puppy was cropped far, far away--I remove them myself--I have all of the appropriate scissors with which to do this and I certainly know when sutures are ready to come out. No sedation, no anesthesia.
On the 13th day, I had enough. I took him who the surgeon who did his cropping and lives in another city to remove his stitches. Two minutes after he was administered anesthesia, he took a massive ****. Then he fought off the anesthesia for 30 minutes. After he went to sleep, the surgeon put him on surgery and tried to clean his ears by rubbing alcohol, he woke up. The surgeon was stunned and complimented me for having such a headstrong puppy. And he had to to give him mild sedative to put him to sleep again. Then finally he removed his stitches and taped his ears above his head. And told me to take off his bandages after 8 days and let his ears rest for a day. And then re tape his ears in the same manner. I did not understand and asked him why did I have to re tape if wounds healed after 8 days. He told me the taping he did was his posting method. I asked him about the backer rod method and clamp method ( suggested by my regular vet). He said he had experienced with lot of posting methods in his 20 years experience of cropping ears. This was the easiest and gave quick results. This was the reason why people from far off cities came to him for cropping. After I exited his clinic. I met a son and his father taking out their two dobermans for a walk. I asked them did they do their cropping and posting from the same vet. They said yes and told me they lived in the same area. The black doberman was about a year old and the younger brown one was 4.5 months old. He told me he cropped ears of his younger one when he was 3 months old. He used the same taping/posting method described by the doctor. He got his ears permanently erect in 7 weeks. I was shocked. The older one's ears took two months. The son advised me to use paper tape instead of surgical tape to cause less pain to the puppy. Researching online, I never come through such an easy method which gave quick results that with a long crop.
Here I will say again that I am thoroughly amazed that they were using anesthesia to remove sutures and clean up ears and had to add sedation after they woke your puppy up by cleaning his ears with alcohol.
It's been years and years since I've seen any vet or tech try to clean anything that had been sutured up with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide. For one thing alcohol stings on raw tissue like the very devil--no wonder the puppy woke up. And hydrogen peroxide can actually delay healing of raw tissue. And what kind of anesthesia where they using? inhalent or injectable?
So I looked at the video--1) I would not tape an ear over the head that way because you are effectively likely to put a bend in the tissue which makes what is called a pocket. Pockets cause ears to tip in and sometimes fold across the top of the head instead of standing up straight. 2) It looks to me like the vet is still taping across not entirely unhealed ears--I can see blood on part of the tape. 3) So did you by any chance take pictures of the two dogs you saw with that vets method of posting? I'd want to see that AND I still want to see what the puppy looks like now that he's out of an e-collar (or I hope he is) and you can see the shape of the crop.
7 weeks post crop or 2 month post crop for standing ears isn't all that unusual (I've forgotten how old he was when they cropped him--could you remind me?) And exactly how long depends on both the quality of the cartilage, the type of crop and skill of the poster (no matter how they are being posted.)
It would not be my choice of posting methods. And while I've pretty much always had long show crops on my dogs (and I expect to need to post longer than if they had a short pet crop I've had dogs with long show crops who's ears stood in less that 7 weeks of posting after the sutures were out as well and dogs who took months of posting.
I will post video link of the procedure but bear in mind that I could record only when he taping posting his second ear and the language isn't English. But anyone can pretty much understand what he did. Here is the video link: https://youtu.be/qh7EZu3n1a8
Yes, I understood what he did and what he told you but I still have no idea what the end result of trying to make an ear stand like that would be--I'd really like to see what a finished ear looked like. And thanks for the link,
While researching more I came through videos of an Eastern European doberman breeder, he had some modified tool with wires to post ears. The posting looked very with that tool.
Here is that video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCRMnXSPNU
Then after a bit of googling, I came to know that tool is known as 'JR ear crop harness tool'. I searched online but couldn't find a seller who shipped this tool.
If anyone knows how to make this tool by yourself, please let me know.
In the US it was known as a rack. And it was used extensively in the 50's and was going out of favor by the mid 60's. The version that you found the video of is a good bit fancier and probably works somewhat better than the version you mostly saw here.
I know of no one who makes (commercially) a rack. They were still very popular in California when I moved there in 1963. I posted puppies for breeders who had never used anything but a rack and I can tell you they are a real pain in the neck. The people I posted for in the general style of the backer rod method quickly changed to that.
Usually you need to have sizes for small, medium sized and big puppies. The tape that is used to attach the ears to what were called various things (sometimes wings so that's what I'll refer to them as) is probably Elasticon by Johnson and Johnson a very sticky tape which is often used on things like splints and foot bandages as the outer layer of tape to hold things in place.
The original racks were did not have the extension pieces that run down the side of their head on either side and are heavily padded at the bottom and up the side, roughly to the base of the ears.
Here's the biggest problem with them--they are much harder to put on and tape in place AND that tape has to be changed frequently. As puppies grow their ears grow too. And as the ears grow, even a little the ear droops from the top of the wing. If you don't change the tape and redo it as soon as that happens and you don't keep tension on the ear you end up with pockets and often puppies got very clever about removing even the good racks and the ears weren't up as long as they needed to be and people gave up posting and the ears never stood properly.
I've never known of a commercial manufacturer of racks--all of them that I ever saw were made out of a fairly heavy wire (the wire often used was that which wire coat hangers were made from--it worked pretty well but the video looks like that it a heavier gauge wire than the coat hanger wire.
I am totally confused. And one thing I know that backer rod method would be very hard for me. My puppy is mad at me because I had to apply force to apply anti infection cream on his ears. He does not even let me touch his ears and even runs away when I look at his ears. He has become very aggressive. Has already tested my blood more than 5 times. So I don't if I would be able to apply the backer rod method to post his ears.
Please post your views.
dobebug, Melbrod and other experienced guys whom I don't know
OK--Stop putting the anti infection cream on his ears. Leave his ears alone--if he's on antibiotics he doesn't need to have the cream--they will prevent an infection. Of course he doesn't want you to touch his ears--every time you do you hurt him. I'd run away too.
He's not mad at you he's afraid of you and he is trying to protect himself they only way he can--he has teeth and he's using them.
Other people have told you that the quick ways of posting aren't necessarily the best way. They're right.
Even your cropping vet's method involves you holding the puppy and dealing with his ears.
While his ears finish healing you should be treating him with kid gloves and not messing with his ears. Once they are completely healed the backer rod process is probably the easiest on the puppy and the owner.
I hope you've actually gone through greenkouki's video on posting with backer rod. It is detailed and excellent. And I know more than one owner who has learned to post Doberman ears with that video and have learned that if you hurt a puppy while you are posting you'll make your job much harder. Be gentle and take it easy and you and your puppy will bond with each other. Do not be rough with Doberman puppies--you do them and yourself a big disservice when you are.
Now that I've made your post longer I'm going to go and see if I can actually find a place that makes 'racks'. But I assure you that neither your vet's method nor the rack really make posting easy. And the backer rod method is probably the least painful and least invasive.
If I can find anything I'll try to send a link but I don't have much hope so if you don't hear from me it's because I found nothing.
And by the way, one of the puppy mills in the US sells a plastic device called a 'crown'--which is a even poorer version of the 'rack' and also doesn't work as well as the rack. (tape doesn't really hold well to plastic.)