9 months Long crop tips are still curling 😕 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-18-2020, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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9 months Long crop tips are still curling 😕

I’m hoping someone could please give me some advice or peace of mind to not give up on the posting. This was the first time I’ve done it and I showed the vet pictures of how I wanted them to look (which was a long show crop) and her ears ended up growing way longer then expected. I know long crops take a lot longer to stand but we’ve had some issues with her ears getting irritated from at first the tape we were using was latex and apparently she had an allergic reaction and every now and then there will be little cuts or bumps so we let them air out several days which I know slows down the process as well. We’ve been posting the ears now for about 9 months and the bases are pretty good it’s just the tips and I’m not sure if it’s to late and they’ll be like this forever or to keep posting and they will get better over time. I’m also looking into switching over to the mole-skin and just doing the tips. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-18-2020, 10:19 PM
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Do you think you could post pictures of your pup's ears? What you're calling curling *could* be what someone else would call flopping or vice versa; language is just so imprecise. And that could make a difference what you should do.

And we'd love to see pictures anyway. Welcome to DT.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-2020, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Im sorry, Im still new to this type of forum and having trouble figuring out how to add photos. I just attached two from our hike yesterday, hopefully you can see them now.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-2020, 03:57 PM
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Your first few posts have to be approved by a moderator, so just be patient - we'll get to them.

They are definitely curling back still, so keep posting. I would not, personally, switch to posting with anything except a firm post at this point. The bases look nice and solid, so I think you're on the right track. What method are you using to post? You want to be certain the posts are longer than the ear, that you're pulling the ear up nice and tight against the post, and that you are taping the tip of the ear at the top of the post so that it's covered and can't curl away from the post. Don't tape it tight, just lay the tape against the ear.

I've used both the backer rod method and the zip tie method. Some dogs simply take longer for their ears to be done. Make sure you aren't leaving the ears down longer than it takes for them to be cleaned and then dry. Any time down will really set you back. My girl had one ear that took until she was nearly a year old.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for responding! I've been using the tampon method the same way, pulling the ear up and tight to the post and start taping from the base all the way past the tips. They are definitely taped and secured to the post. We have been letting them air out to long some times my boyfriend lets it sit for the weekend and that really irritates me. But I will start being more consistent with taking them out cleaning, drying and back up right away and hopefully I'll see more progress!
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:38 PM
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Looking at the pictures I'd say that you could probably switch to using either mole foam or Breathrite strips on the tips but you need to use an additional glue not just the glue on the mole foam or strips. That alone isn't enough to keep them in place for more than a few days.

So I offer this information as well. There is a product called "Skin Tac:liquid adhesive. It is manufactured Torbot Group, 1367 Elmwood Ave, Cranston, RI 02910 It's order number from Torbot is MS407 and they have their own adhesive remover Tac Away. They claim that you can use alcohol to remove it but I haven't found this to be the case but the other common remover is UniSolve by Smith and Nephews (Florida company).

The description is it is Non-latex, Hypo Allergic and an ideal barrier between skin and Tape. I use it only for ear tips and i usually use BreathRite strips.

Torbot is one of the adhesives that I've used when posting ears but since it's latex you don't want to use it to help whatever you use on the tips to make them adhere.

If there is a medical supply outfit anywhere near you calling them might get you a local supplier. And in the past a couple of pharmacies were willing to order stuff like this for me.

But if you get the Skin Tac (which I regard as the magic answer to keeping BreathRite strips or Mole Foam in place long enough to work on ear tips) I caution you to never try to remove the strips or foam from the ear without using one of the adhesive removers.

Given enough times (weeks) oils surfacing on the skin will allow the strips to fall off but to take them off before this happens you need a remover.

If you use strips you want to apply them from center of the ear tip down somewhat to the foreward edge of the ear on the inside of the ear only. You have to be right on putting the strip in because there are no "do overs"--if it ends up in the wrong place you have to remove the strip completely and start again.

With the Mole foam it's a similar process--except that you trim the foam to the shape of the tip of the ear--it should cover the ear tip completely to below the beginning of the curl--you can round the lower part of the foam so that it reaches down far enough to be on a part of the ear that is standing firmly.

Hope this makes sense--ask questions if it doesn't--and good luck. Looks like the only part of the crop that isn't doing what you want is the tips. I'd probably try full posts one more time and if you don't get the curl out at that point start dealing as above to take care of them.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:43 PM
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Bug--does she need to shave the dog's ears where the strips or foam are attached?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for your response! I just did the full posts last night so I will go ahead and order the glue and mole skin to try just the tips next time. How often do you switch out the moleskin/breathe right strips? I wouldn't think it would be as often since your just putting it on the tips.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:22 PM
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I would do 1/2 posts with backer rod personally. Breathe rights work well for firming up the tips but not holding up tips that are completely flipped over. The crop does not have much shape which means it's very wide at the tips, this is what's causing you so much trouble. Honestly if this were my puppy I would have the ears re-cropped. Whatever method you decide to go with they should be posted 24-7.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:27 PM
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I would also stick with a more supportive post, personally. I don't think you'll get enough support with a breathe right or mole foam. Just my opinion.


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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:54 PM
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Bug--does she need to shave the dog's ears where the strips or foam are attached?
No, she doesn't--or at least I never do. You can but it sure isn't a must do.

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Thanks so much for your response! I just did the full posts last night so I will go ahead and order the glue and mole skin to try just the tips next time. How often do you switch out the moleskin/breathe right strips? I wouldn't think it would be as often since your just putting it on the tips.
Personally, I wait until the edges of strips or any part of mole foam is obviously coming loose and if you actually use the Skin Tac--it actually keeps them in place for at least 10 days. Bottom line is that I don't use adhesive remover and take them down until I have to because they are already coming loose.

Also let me add that I think the Skin Tac is fairly expensive and it does have an expiration date on it but just for the record the one I've been using for years expired in 2013 and I've been using it since about 2010 (as I recall) and it still works fine.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 06:08 PM
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I would do 1/2 posts with backer rod personally. Breathe rights work well for firming up the tips but not holding up tips that are completely flipped over. The crop does not have much shape which means it's very wide at the tips, this is what's causing you so much trouble. Honestly if this were my puppy I would have the ears re-cropped. Whatever method you decide to go with they should be posted 24-7.
I think that those bases look sturdy enough to support the tips and either foam or strips BUT--if it turns out they aren't you can, I have, post the ear--either a full post or half post (although I'm not a big fan of half posts--I've had problems where I posting someones puppy other than my own--who I can oversee all the time--and the puppy that people who are bringing him to me on an appointment basis don't always notice the the half post has come away from the ear and the ear, as a result is laying over the top of the puppies head.

You just leave the strip or foam where it is and pretend it isn't there and repost. This puppy doesn't look to have a really long crop and that's usually where I see the most frequent problem with ear tips wanting to tip over or back (mostly back). When you take the post down you look to make sure the tips are still well supported by whatever material (strip or foam) you are using and see if the ears will support it after that posting.

Repeat as needed. If full or half post aren't necessary you just need to keep an eye on the strip or foam to make sure it is still in place and doesn't need to be removed and redone.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 06:17 PM
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Thanks so much for your response! I just did the full posts last night so I will go ahead and order the glue and mole skin to try just the tips next time. How often do you switch out the moleskin/breathe right strips? I wouldn't think it would be as often since your just putting it on the tips.
Just read this post--Mole foam--not mole skin--different products and both made and distributed by Dr Scholls I think. The Mole foam is generally available in any drug store and most of the grocery stores in the section where they sell cough drops, band aids etc. The glue you'll probably have to order.

Tell you boyfriend that the ear police will be around to remind him to keep those ears posted until the tips are straightened out.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2020, 08:32 AM
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That's a good point bug. With the half posts one should either glue them on to the ears or use double sided shurtape (with the blue backing) on the posts instead of just back taped zonas tape like with full posts.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your advise, it has definitely put my mind to ease to just keep doing it and the tips will correct themselves! I have ordered the skin-tac glue and it should be here by Wednesday and I will give that a try, if that doesn't work I will just go back to the original full-posting. I will post pictures of the progress =]
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I would do 1/2 posts with backer rod personally. Breathe rights work well for firming up the tips but not holding up tips that are completely flipped over. The crop does not have much shape which means it's very wide at the tips, this is what's causing you so much trouble. Honestly if this were my puppy I would have the ears re-cropped. Whatever method you decide to go with they should be posted 24-7.
I didn't think you could get them re-cropped or even cropped at her age? I had to drive out of state to get her's cropped when she was 8 weeks because none of the vet's in my area did cosmetic procedures. The vet I went to out of state who my breeder recommended doesn't do anything after 9 weeks.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 02:11 PM
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You can if you need to FIX a badly botched crop. If the crop is already a mess, or just really really ugly, you don't have anything to lose. Even if the recrop doesn't look quite perfect, it may be better than the original.

But you MUST go to a skilled vet who specializes in cropping and re-cropping. That vet can usually tell you whether or not a recrop would help and how the dog's ears would be likely to look after the procedure.

Recropping is generally for dogs whose crops are a mess--I don't think you're at that point right now. Try posting some more with methods folks are recommending here. I think you may be able to fix those ears enough that you won't need to consider recropping.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 12:49 PM
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My boy is almost 13 months old and I'm still posting (half post backer rod method) because his tips curl a little. He has a long show crop. Keep at it
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 04:16 PM
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I didn't think you could get them re-cropped or even cropped at her age? I had to drive out of state to get her's cropped when she was 8 weeks because none of the vet's in my area did cosmetic procedures. The vet I went to out of state who my breeder recommended doesn't do anything after 9 weeks.
In general curled tips don't warrant a recrop. The crop itself doesn't look bad--I wouldn't class it as a perfect long show crop but the crops that need a complete recrop are usually those where the bell is huge because the cropper didn't take out a v shaped wedge at the bottom and taper the pinna (ear leather to meet the back of the v. Those crops looking at the dog face on are the ones that look like Mickey Mouse ears.

Your pups crop is a little to wide at the pinna for the ideal show crop but is an acceptable crop--my opinion here.

Vets who will not crop past a certain age are usually saying they will not do a crop period beyond a certain age. The age varies--but the rock bottom line is almost always 12 weeks.

Pups that have been cropped and bases are standing, if a recrop is really indicated, vets will generally recrop at any age (within reason) .

In the case of your pup--the ears and the crop are not a total mess--they aren't even a partial mess (again, my opinion) You have curly tips. That's what needs correction. I don't think any kind of recrop actually cures that kind of problem. Well, if the recrop involved shortening the entire ear leather up the curl on the tip--but I think that's kind a drastic method to solve a not very drastic problem.

I'd at least give Breathrite strips or mole foam a try for a minimum of a month to six weeks and see if that makes a difference. If it does then you can keep doing that until the tips are either straight or only slightly curved. (I know people who kind of like the look of a slightly curved tip--not me but there are folks who do.)

My dog with a very long crop (an AKC champion doing performance stuff after finishing his championship) split the tip of one ear on something in the back yard. It didn't want to heal and about the time it was nearly healed he'd do things like play with a toy that he felt obliged to shake to death and smack the ear tip and we'd have minor blood bath until I got the bleeding stopped.

Finally his vet and I had a come to Jesus talk. We looked at the tip and I asked if it wasn't healing properly because there was not enough skin to cover the cartilage by then. He thought that was basically what was going on. I said OK--lets knock him out and you can excise the tip of the exposed cartilage and get some undamaged skin exposed and suture that over the cartilage. That should heal? Right?

My vet turned pale--he was horrified--he knew I showed my dogs--the only thing he could think of was the show ring. He finally calmed down enough to listen to me tell him the dog was only showing in performance he was done with conformation. But he kept saying "I don't do crops" or "I've never done a crop". But he did, what amounted to a very minor crop correction.

He removed the very tip of the cartilage that was exposed by the scarring of the skin. He cleaned up the skin edges so clean skin was exposed and put in six tiny sutures--three on each side of the tip ear edge.

I posted his ear except for 3/8 inch at the very tip. 10 days later my vet removed the sutures--the ear tip was entirely healed. I'd posted him twice while it was healing. Now he had an ear that was marginally shorter than his other ear. Most people never noticed. He was showed a few times as a Veteran and I brought him to work and hung the huge big ribbon he got for winning a Veterans class--his vet came around--looked at it and laughed--he said "Not so bad for getting recropped by an amateur, huh?"

So good luck, I don't think you need to be in the market for a recrop, at least not at this point. But keep us posted (that was bad joke!) and let us know how it goes.

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