Ear Implant Issues (permastay) - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Ear Implant Issues (permastay)

Anyone had issues with perma stay implants?

We are dealing with multiple surgeries to remove them after our dogs body rejected them.

This was offered as great no risk solution to failed crop, but has been a financial nightmare and so painful for Max.

Have seen many random posts about issues, but nothing organized.... we are in Macon Georgia and used a referred vet from the perma stay site close to us.

If we would have known the issues going in- we never would have gone the implant route.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 11:39 PM
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Hi Blanche.

I am so sorry with your issues. Sorry for your pup also. The implant question comes up occasionally here on DT. I have never read anything positive.

Best you and your pup.

John
Portland OR
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 05:22 AM
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Other can learn from your mistakes.
We had a person recently inquiring about doing this procedure.
There is not a lot of history of what is involved I for one would like to hear your story......what happened and how you would have handled things differently in retrospect ............

Hoss
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 10:42 AM
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I'm sorry to hear you've had issues. As others have said, we've generally not heard great things about these implants here on DT. I hope you are able to get them removed and Max can recover. It's unfortunate they were billed as "no risk" - there's no such thing as any procedure being no risk...everything has some degree of risk, especially when it's being implanted in the body.

I've moved your thread (and added permastay to the title) so others can find this information when searching. Hopefully it will help other people evaluate the risk when making a decision about whether to do this procedure.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 11:35 AM
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So sorry about the problems you've had with the Permastays and your Max.

I've really heard nothing good and have seen some failed implants and ears after removal of stays (a couple of different brands but Permastay seems to be the one that is most often used) and although I admit I see them because the owner got referred to me to see if I could help them get ears up I'm probably only seeing the disasters.

The most common thing I've seen is rejection of the implant--and that looks like the kind of thing you see when the body is rejecting any kind of foreign object.

They definitely aren't a "no problem" solution to ears that aren't standing and we've been asked about them many times on DT and I've never seen them recommended here.

I'd like to see you post your experiences--maybe it'll keep some other owner from trying them as a solution.

dobebug
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 12:15 AM
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That was me who inquired recently I bet! LOL I'm going to update now.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 09:55 AM
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In my experience running an ear posting group, I've NEVER seen anyone have a good experience with perma stays. I've also never seen the ears look that well with them in either. Good luck to you and your pup.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 10:53 PM
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My 18 month old male dobe had this done about 2 months ago and it has been a nightmare. The incision inside the ear healed perfect but on the outside there was a large buildup
of fluid. Vet pulled fluid off of the ear twice and it came right back. He then recommended to take out the spine of the implant and leave the mesh because he was most likely rejecting the implant. Removing the spine was a minimal surgery with one small incision so he could slide the spine out. That was 2 weeks ago and his ear still has fluid and is still not standing. I hate to put him through surgery again to remove the implant completely but don’t know what else to do at this point.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirodinbetelges View Post
My 18 month old male dobe had this done about 2 months ago and it has been a nightmare. The incision inside the ear healed perfect but on the outside there was a large buildup
of fluid. Vet pulled fluid off of the ear twice and it came right back. He then recommended to take out the spine of the implant and leave the mesh because he was most likely rejecting the implant. Removing the spine was a minimal surgery with one small incision so he could slide the spine out. That was 2 weeks ago and his ear still has fluid and is still not standing. I hate to put him through surgery again to remove the implant completely but don’t know what else to do at this point.
From what I've heard (from people who had implants that were clearly being rejected) is that it's best to remove everything--if it's apparent that a rejection is happening.

Talk to the vet about it but if there is still fluid building up it probably means that the dog is rejecting the mesh as well as the spine.

dobebug
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 09:25 PM
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I was reading your post and wondered how Max is doing? I feel so bad for you both.

Sincerely,
Robin
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:07 PM
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Wanted to give y’all an update on Odin. The vet was able to remove the implant completely using the small incision at the top of the ear. Surgery was a week ago and the fluid is almost all the way gone! There was also a small spot that quit growing hair after the implant was put in and now that it has been removed the hair is growing back. For anyone thinking of doing the implant to correct their dobes ear, I would stay away from it.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:15 PM
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Great news!
I'm glad that things will seemingly work out. It would have been a shame forr Odin to have lost his ear.

John
Portland OR
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:35 PM
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Oh thank goodness.....thanks for the update. Happy for you and yours !
Now send us more pics when you get some extra time.....would love to hear your stories.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2019, 02:11 PM
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Blanch- What caused your issues was a pocket of fluid caused by your puppy chewing on the pets ear which you allowed to remain or severe trauma to the ear or both for over 90 days at which time the fluid decayed causing the infection. You have no one to blame but yourself. You also ignored post operative exams required by the vet and removed the stitches yourself. You ignored all written post operative care. You not telling the truth. Dr Norwood of Braelinn Animal Hospital in Peachtree City GA also said you treat the staff very rudely. You are not telling the truth. Gregg Miller

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-31-2019, 07:44 AM
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I'm glad Gregg isn't permitted to continue to post, because lordy he's got a bee up his butt. I feel like that last comment is slanderous, and leans toward doxxing. Not cool, Gregg. NOT COOL.

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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 04:49 PM
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Not allowed to comment?

Well, I am commenting now. It is upsetting that people come on here defaming PermaStay making claims that are simply not true. Over 5500 pets have been restored without issues. The issues that do arise are due to (non-intentional) owner neglect. This is not a teeth cleaning procedure- it requires some post operative effort by the pets owner to assure procedural success. Follow the post op protocol detailed by the vet or on neuticles.com under the PermaStay logo. Do what the vet recommends, take the pet back for follow up visits. if fluid buildup occurs as a result of post op trauma- dont wait 3 months to address the issue. If you buy a car and put water in the gas take- dont blame the automaker blame yourself.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 05:13 PM
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PermaStay Facts and Procedural Protocol

Aftercare
As with routine ear trim surgery, proper aftercare is a very
important part of improving the probability of good results. Edema,
seroma, hematoma and infection are more likely than with routine ear
crop surgery when optimal post-operative care is not employed. It is
recommend that a broad spectrum antibiotics be administered for 10 days.
External application of additional apparatus to help the ear stand is
usually recommended but is at the option of the surgeon.

Pain medication and or tranquilizers should be prescribed as needed.
Evaluate the surgery on day two or three and again at ten days. At this
time, remove the sutures and determine if other aftercare or ear
training apparatus is indicated. Use of Rimadyl is advised several days
prior to surgery and for up to 10 day preceding surgery to reduce
post-operative swelling of the ear due to trauma.

Expected Results
With proper overall evaluation of the animal’s health, good surgical skill and thorough post-operative care, a very high percentile of these broken ears will stand very well, probability is 99%-plus. This prognosis is with breaks in the middle 50% of the ear. Those that occur in the
proximal or distal 25% of the ear may have a lower probability. The individual surgeon will need to carefully evaluate these cases and discuss the prognosis with the owner according to his/her judgment as no two ears are rarely precisely alike.


Miscellaneous
PermaStay® has proven to be well over 99% non reactive to canine tissue in all
previous tests and clinical uses. Successful installation should last
the life of the canine without complications providing pet owner follows
post-operative protocol.. Appearance of the prosthesis material is
non-existent in most cases.

Pet should be healthy prior to placement without any known allergies
or low immunity. It is suggested that a full blood panel be conducted
prior to surgery to determine health of the pet. Reactive canine tissue
cases cited above occurred when pre-operative blood testing did not
occur.

The fluroplastic spine can be removed after six months in most cases-
if desired. Removal of the spine will restore the pet’s ear to a
natural state. Exclusions of spine removal are those pets where ear
canal placement was necessary.

It is strongly advised that corners of the surgical mesh foundation
and center of the implant be anchored with dis-solvable sutures designed
to hold implant in place for up 90 days or preferably longer

It is strongly advised to place the pet on Rimadyl several days prior
to surgery and for 10 days following surgery to greatly reduce or
eliminate post-operative trauma fluid discharge. Surgeons using laser
technology have experienced little to no post- operative fluid
discharge.

While it is at the option of the surgeon, it is advised that post- operative TempoStay® Ear
Supports, traditional ear support or bandaging be employed in an
upright position to allow not only tissue growth into the surgical mesh
foundation- but to add additional ear support resulting in less stress
to the ear. Pet owner observation is critical to assure pet does not
oppose this as the ear can be traumatized in pet’s effort to remove
mechanisms.

PermaStay® is sent to the veterinarian pre-washed and dried in 70% Isopropyl
Alcohol. Steam autoclave at 250 (DF) is required prior to placement in
the autoclave pouch in which it is packaged. At surgeons’ option the
device can be soaked prior to placement with a broad-spectrum antibiotic
– which is recommended.

When protocol is breached, like with any specialized or
non-specialized procedure, the risks of complications increase.
Correction of the breach is normally correctable with veterinary follow
up care. In extreme rare instances removal of the implant is necessary.
In some cases when the implant is removed the ear remains erect.

Initial procedural success can normally be determined if the ear(s) are
standing immediately after placement of the device, Potential causes
leading to post-operative procedural complications or failure are, but
not limited to post-operative contamination of the surgical area, severe
trauma or surgeon implantation failure.

Post operative scar created by the incision area required for placement of the implant is a concern with every pet owner. Two one CC tubes of CTI ScarGON gel are included with each device at no charge. Simply wait for the scab to fall off the area naturally then apply a micro-thin coating of ScarGON to the area. Gently rub the ScarGON into the affected area twice a day for up to seven days and the scar will completely disappear! ScarGON gel is available in .50 oz tubes – simply click the ScarGON logo atop the page for details.

Reported Issues
5017 canines have been implanted with PermaStay®. (REV 11//2019)

1) Several canines had experienced a mesh migration. It is now advised that
corners of the surgical mesh foundation and center of the implant be
anchored with a non traumatic dissoluble suture which will last for 60
days or longer avoid this possible occurrence.

2) 317 canines had experienced mild to severe post operative fluid
buildup in the ear due to placement trauma. 107 of the 317 canines had
required drainage of the ear while the remainder absorbed back into the
body without drainage after several days. Surgeons using laser
technology have experienced little if any post operative swelling. It is
now required that the pet be placed on Rimadyl several days prior to
surgery and for seven to ten days following placement of PermaStay® to eliminate risk of this minor issue.

3) Two German Shepherd canines (in 2010) experienced what appeared to be a post operative allergic reaction and rejection. Pets, prior to placement of PermaStay® should be of excellent health including immune system and not have any known allergies for one year prior to placement. A full blood panel is recommended prior to placement to assure pet’s fitness prior to placement.

4) Four canine ears- where the break of fold was midway – were corrected with PermaStay® but the fold reoccurred below the implanted area but was corrected.

5) Nine canines have developed post operative infections –
months after placement. Investigations have proven that trauma to
the ear or failure to keep surgical area sterile during the healing
process is the sole reason for this occurrence. Pet owners are advised
to seek veterinary assistance immediately should fluid formation occur
to prevent an infection which may develop if ignored. Caution and care
to avoid severe trauma to the ear must be employed by the pet’s owner
for the first six months and a level of caution for the life of the pet.

6) PermaStay® was placed in eight canines and the ear still did not stand.
Reasons for this may include unauthorized surgeon’s inability to place PermaStay® properly, post operative trauma to the ear dislodging the support spine or severe trauma to the ear in general.

7) It should be noted that while PermaStay® is safe and effective – pet owners are advised to follow post operative protocol which is important for procedural success. Failure by the pet’s owner to follow post operative cautions may lead to follow up visits to the veterinarian which will add to the cost of the procedure. The PermaStay® procedure should be performed by an authorized participating facility who has been vetted and approved by CTI Corporation.



Frequently Asked Questions
» Can any veterinarian place PermaStay®?

No. Sales to veterinarians, or to pet owners that order providing the PermaStay(s) to the surgeon, are restricted to those vets that do ear crops on a regular basis with a known success rate. The PermaStay® procedure is highly specialized which requires a surgeon with an expertise, passion and forte’ with ears.

» Is there a veterinarian in my area?

PermaStay® maintains a database of over 100 participating clinics and hospitals
throughout the US. Email or call for an authorized participating
facility in your area or region. Pet owners are provided with full
disclosures of the surgeon’s procedure history including the numbers of
devices placed.

» What makes a “participating facility a participating facility?”

Our sole concern is procedural success To assure this, we restrict
the procedure to veterinary surgeons that perform ear crops on a regular
basis with a proven success rate. After each procedure, we contact that
veterinarian to make sure the procedure went well. A second follow up
contact is made several months later. We attempt to keep in contact with
the pet owner encouraging their feedback on how satisfied they are with
their pet’s procedure and the veterinary facility. As a result, over
the years, we have developed a database with what we consider the best
ear specialists in the World.


» I’m outside the US – is PermaStay® available in my country?

Maybe. There are PermaStay® participating facilities in 14 countries throughout the World.

» How long has PermaStay® been on the market?

PermaStay® was in development for nearly five years prior to its introduction in
2010. Development included clinical trials with a host of participating
veterinarians specialized with ears. PermaStay® was
proven safe and effective prior to release when post-operative care
protocol is followed. It is the first product in the history of
veterinary medicine to provide a lifelong solution to a bent or broken
ear. CTI Corporation is first and only company in the World that has
provided safe and effective pet implantation devices for over a quarter
century.

» Can the spine in the center of PermaStay® be removed?

The spine serves initially as a crutch to support the ear whilst
tissue growth occurs within the mesh foundation. Once tissue growth has
occurred, which varies in time from pet to pet, the device can easily be
removed. When the spine is removed the ear is normally restored to a
natural state. The spine can be removed any time after six months or
sooner if there is assurance that tissue growth within the mesh
foundation has occurred.

» Is the procedure major surgery?

No. Normal implant time is from 15 to 20 minutes per ear. Watch our
instructional video above to see an actual procedure. The level of
surgery compares to a neuter or spay. While the surgery itself is not
major, the skill and expertise of the veterinarian is essential.

» Are there complications?

With any surgical procedure there are risks of complications. 30% of
procedural successful ear crops, for example, fail as the pet’s owner ignores or neglects post-operative care and cautions. With PermaStay®,
it is essential that the ear is not severely traumatized especially for the
first 90 days. Trauma to the ear can occur in many ways from mild to
extreme. If trauma to the ear does occur that does not mean procedural
failure will occur. It simply means that a follow-up visit(s) to the
surgeon may have to be made to correct the specific issue created by the
trauma which is generally accumulated fluid discharge which is easily
corrected. In these cases, the pets owner should not wait months to
correct the issue but should be addressed immediately. Refer to Reported
Complications on this page for a comprehensive listing. Complications
are generally post-operative issues which arise due to non-intentional
owner neglect created by trauma to the ear which can be avoided with
proper supervision and awareness.

» What is the complication rate?

PermaStay® maintains a 95% success rate or greater. Non-success is not 100%
procedural failure but can be defined, for example, as any issue listed
under Reported Complications on this page. It is estimated that less
than 1/4 of 1% of implanted pets result in procedural failure requiring removal
of the device. Complications are normally issues which arise due to
non-intentional pet owner neglect.

» How much does PermaStay® cost?

Cost for the entire procedure, including the PermaStay® implant(s)
range from $600 to $1500 per ear depending on each veterinarian’s fee
schedule and location within the country. Generally, pet owners can
expect to pay approximately $1000 per ear on average.

» What if my pet does traumatize the ear(s)?

If the trauma is severe then the body may react with a fluid
discharge. If the fluid is ignored by the pet’s owner and does not
absorb back into the body, there is a risk of the fluid
decaying-contaminating the ear over time which will lead to an
infection. After placement of PermaStay®,
check the ear frequently. If you notice an unusual area which may
contain fluid contact your vet immediately. The veterinarian will
provide either an anti-inflammatory medication or in some cases,
drain the ear which is a very inexpensive, simple, quick and painless procedure.

» Are follow up visits required?

Pursuant to the surgical procedure description on this page it is
recommended that a follow-up visit to the veterinarian be made two or
three, ten and 30 days following the procedure as a check-up to assure
that all is well. The follow-up visits are normally included in the cost
of the procedure. These visits include the removal of stitches and
general examination of the ear(s) to make sure all is progressing in a
satisfactory manner.

» At what age can PermaStay® be placed?

It is recommended that PermaStay® be placed at full growth of the pet- generally after one year of age. It is recommended that the ear be supported with TempoStay®
Ear Supports until that time to support the ear(s) as scar tissue will
likely form at the breaking point of the ear. Information on TempoStay® can be found by clicking the TempoStay® logo at the top of the page.

» Is post-operative care difficult?

As noted above. it is important to follow veterinary care
instructions and avoid trauma to the ear especially for the first
six months following the procedure. Avoidance of trauma to the ear for
the pet’s life is recommended. PermaStay® is
no different than any other procedure for pets or humans. If minimal
post-operative care or cautions are ignored the risk of an issue with
the pet increases and will add to the overall cost of the procedure.

» Are there medical benefits with PermaStay®?

Yes. In many cases it is important to have a standing ear(s) as it
allows air flow into the ear canal which greatly decreases risk of ear
infections for the pet. Allowing an infected ear to remain untreated is
not only harmful to the pet but can lead to hearing loss in extreme
cases. PermaStay® is the only product in pet history to provide to provide a permanent
solution to a bent or broken ear allowing your pet to live a happier and
healthier life.

» Who can I call or email with specific questions?

For a referral to a certified PermaStay® participating clinic or hospital call 816-690-8337 M-F 8a to 5p CST or email [email protected]. We also are available to discuss any aspect of PermaStay® with pet owners or veterinary surgeon. and encourage veterinarians with an expertise and forte’ with ears to contact us to become a participating facility
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PermaStay View Post
Well, I am commenting now. It is upsetting that people come on here defaming PermaStay making claims that are simply not true. Over 5500 pets have been restored without issues. The issues that do arise are due to (non-intentional) owner neglect. This is not a teeth cleaning procedure- it requires some post operative effort by the pets owner to assure procedural success. Follow the post op protocol detailed by the vet or on neuticles.com under the PermaStay logo. Do what the vet recommends, take the pet back for follow up visits. if fluid buildup occurs as a result of post op trauma- dont wait 3 months to address the issue. If you buy a car and put water in the gas take- dont blame the automaker blame yourself.
Is Permastay a product that is used in place of taping (posting}? or is used on a ear that is failing the traditional method?
Traditional posting requires several months of effort with much attention to health of the ear while posting. Permastay is also needing attention and after care , are these issues we have seen posted on this forumn, coming from neglect after the initial procedure or is there a common issue that you have to watch for in the weeks and months after the procedure?
This question is only about a dobermans ear. If this product has been used on a Dobe with a long show cut is it obvious to the trained eye that a dobe has the Permastay implant?

Thanks , Alan
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 05:51 PM
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PermaStay Ear implants are placed by a Certified PermaStay Surgeons located throughout the country on older pets where the ear was broken or the ear crop failed. We developed the TempoStay Ear support which has revolutionized ear taping in the traditional way. PermaStay is placed when all else has failed. Please visit neuticles.com- click the PermaStay or TemposStay logo at the top of the page to learn details. Thank you !

Last edited by PermaStay; 01-30-2020 at 05:56 PM.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PermaStay View Post
Blanch- What caused your issues was a pocket of fluid caused by your puppy chewing on the pets ear which you allowed to remain or severe trauma to the ear or both for over 90 days at which time the fluid decayed causing the infection. You have no one to blame but yourself. You also ignored post operative exams required by the vet and removed the stitches yourself. You ignored all written post operative care. You not telling the truth. Dr Norwood of Braelinn Animal Hospital in Peachtree City GA also said you treat the staff very rudely. You are not telling the truth. Gregg Miller
Yikes. Apparently this company is fine with posting client info on a public forum in response to a bad review? This is beyond unprofessional
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 10:30 AM
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Honestly his response could be considered a legal issue.

Doxxing is a legal issue, Gregg. If I were the individual in question, and I knew about this, I'd sue you.

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 12:43 PM
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What falnfenix said ^^^

The OP came on seeking ADVICE... There was no defamation, simply what amounted to a benign review: "If we would have known the issues going in- we never would have gone the implant route."

Comments like this are what fill review sites like Yelp and Google.

BTW, in general, it is a really counterproductive measure to single out, identify and chastise clients/customers. It casts a a very negative light on the business vis a vis customer relationships.

So... No PermaStays for this Doberman owner! Plus, I love posting. IMO, it provides a unique opportunity for a pup to bond with his "hooman".

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
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