Ear pockets issue - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Ear pockets issue

[EDIT] I'm posting again because I realized I have previously posted this in the wrong subtopic. Sorry for that.

Hey there. I know there are probably 1000 topics similar to this one, and I have read them all.

Okay, so let me start off by saying that I have a 7-month-old male Doberman. We've been trying to post his ears for 2-3 months now, but he ALWAYS manages to remove his posts. I have tried pushing and rolling them all the way down the ears, I have tried the ziptie method, everything that I possibly could, but he wins every time.

The longest we've been able to keep him from removing it is 2 days. His ears would stand alone for maybe 20ish minutes or so and then flop again.

Now, I've been wanting to try the skin adhesive method, but the problem is that I'm not from the States, I live in the Balkan area, so I literally don't have any place to get the Torbots or any other skin adhesive that has been recommended in the forums. The only type of surgical glue that I can get is this one (pic below). Btw, I don't have access to many recommended products/tapes, etc, so that presents a huge issue. I always try to find the most similar alternative, but maybe that's one of the reasons why we haven't been successful with removing the pockets.



Now, has anybody had any experiences with this glue?

Also, any other alternative method or advice would be highly appreciated.

P.S. I don't have any vets or professionals here that do ear posting. The vet that did his ears doesn't provide that service, nor does any other veterinarian in my city/surrounding area.

Here are some pics of his ears and the pockets that had been formed.


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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 10:24 AM
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No pictures are showing up - that would be extremely helpful.

So, are you saying that he only had his ears cropped at 4 months old (16 weeks)? If he's now 7 months and you've only been posting 2-3 months, it sounds like he was cropped VERY late.

It would be really helpful to see posts in his ears. It sounds like the posts are not in deep enough if he can get them out. I personally haven't seen the adhesive method work to get ears to stand, so I'm not familiar with it. If we can get a sense of what's going wrong with your posts I think you'd have more success in fixing that to get ears to stand, assuming that he wasn't cropped too late. You really need to get posts in and NOT let the ears down to flop...every time that happens you're just setting yourself back and making the posting time longer.

Any basic low-tack (less sticky) tape should work. There's a brand new ear tutorial that was just posted - have you checked it out? https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-crop...acker-rod.html If you can't get backer rod you can sub out tampons or whatever you are using for the center of the post.


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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Are they visible now?

Yes, he was cropped a little late, because his ears were very very soft so the vet hesitated on cropping them immediately and suggested we add some calcium to his diet in order for them to grow stronger first. I mean, we don't have a lot of choices here when it comes to ear cropping technicians, but this one is reputable and most of the owners go to him for a crop.

They never flop down, they just stand like in the pics I uploaded above. When I remove the posts, his ears are able to stand alone for 20ish min or so, as I have previously mentioned. One of his ears stood up for longer once, but still not longer than 1 whole day.

I have his posts taken out now, because he had a slight irritation, but I will be posting them again tomorrow, so I will make sure to upload the pics as soon as I do. I always make sure that I push them as far as his ears would allow me because I have read too many times that that's the most important thing. However, he always manages to push them out.

We ran into the vet by accident 2 days ago, he took a quick look and said not to worry, that we still have more than enough time, so I hope he's right.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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They aren't visible, I hope this attempt will work though:



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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 01:53 PM
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Still no pictures visible. Without the pictures I can't suggest much but as far as an adhesive goes Torbot, Osteo Bond and virtually anyother adhesive that has been used to facilitate ear posting is one that is used in human medicine to attach colostomy bags to skin. If all else fails I'd probably go to a pharmacy and ask them to see if they can get a product used for the human application. Specify that it should be one using latex as the adhesive base--it works better than the special adhesives used for people who have latex allergies.

Also the cosmetic product used for attaching false eyelashes will work. But since it cmes in very small quantities for that application it makes it expensive for use in the way it is used for ears. For that application you need to specify that you want the kind used to apply strips of eyelashes NOT the kind used to apply individual lashes.

Be sure if you get either product to get the appropriate adhesive remover. You can always use oil (practically any kind, mineral oil, cooking oil etc) to soften the adhesive and remove whatever is attached.

Hope this helps--if not maybe try posting pictures again. All I'm seeing is a tiny black box with a white x in it--from past experience these never end up showing as pictures.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Here we go

Last edited by isy777; 12-19-2018 at 03:52 AM.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 03:42 PM
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Yeah... I see the pics now.

Yup pockets.

That crop is quite short and IMO will stand fine with time and consistancy, even with the quite late crop age.

You should visit the thread that MeadowCat posted. It is the most current and accurate visual tutorial on contemporary ear posting to date.

If you follow the instructions to a T. Do not take short cuts. IMO, you should have pretty good results.

Once the irritation is under control, you need to get back to posting on a consistent basis.

Now that we can see your photos, please post one of your next effort.

Best to you and your pup
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your responses and help. I will try my best with posting and will attach pics as soon as possible!
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isy777 View Post
[EDIT] I'm posting again because I realized I have previously posted this in the wrong subtopic. Sorry for that.

Hey there. I know there are probably 1000 topics similar to this one, and I have read them all.

Okay, so let me start off by saying that I have a 7-month-old male Doberman. We've been trying to post his ears for 2-3 months now, but he ALWAYS manages to remove his posts. I have tried pushing and rolling them all the way down the ears, I have tried the ziptie method, everything that I possibly could, but he wins every time.

The longest we've been able to keep him from removing it is 2 days. His ears would stand alone for maybe 20ish minutes or so and then flop again.

Now, I've been wanting to try the skin adhesive method, but the problem is that I'm not from the States, I live in the Balkan area, so I literally don't have any place to get the Torbots or any other skin adhesive that has been recommended in the forums. The only type of surgical glue that I can get is this one (pic below). Btw, I don't have access to many recommended products/tapes, etc, so that presents a huge issue. I always try to find the most similar alternative, but maybe that's one of the reasons why we haven't been successful with removing the pockets.



Now, has anybody had any experiences with this glue?

Also, any other alternative method or advice would be highly appreciated.

P.S. I don't have any vets or professionals here that do ear posting. The vet that did his ears doesn't provide that service, nor does any other veterinarian in my city/surrounding area.

Here are some pics of his ears and the pockets that had been formed.


Hi isy777,

I know you've said you've read every post on fixing ears so if it turns out you've read all the way through this one I apologize but when the pictures finally posted I thought the information I gave to Chesa (who was having the same problem you've had--keeping the posts in the ears. Her dog shook his head and your dog scratches his ears) but the same fix works for both.

So please go and read a thread started by Chesa on 3/17/18 entitled Sores from posting. Read the whole thing. Especially #9 by dobebug, #13 by Chesa, #15 by dobebug and #17--but reading start to finish may be helpful. So much of trying to explain exactly HOW to do something when posting is understanding what is going wrong and what the poster is still not understanding. That's why this whole thread worked well--when Chesa didn't understand why I was telling her to do something she asked for more specifics.

She was not really dealing with pockets and you are but the first cure for the pockets is getting the dog to leave the posts in long enough to fix the pockets.

So the only thing different for you is to add a bumper to the post. I can see from your pictures that he's got a definite crease in each ear right where it attached to the top of the skull. For a pocket like I use a bumper long enough to fit ACROSS the pocket (the crease you see)--it works better and faster to eliminate a pocket than the vertical bumper that gets attached to the post itself. I use a slice off of a piece of backer rod--back tape it with Zonas tape and stick it directly to the pocket (the crease) the round side goes against the pocket to push it out--flat side will go against the post when you put that in--then insert the post--pull the ear up and tip it out a little (so that the posted ears will sit at 10 & 2 as on a clock face.

If you can't find Zonas tape the substitute would be a sports tape (NOT a self amalgamating tape0 a low tack (not very sticky) breathable fabric tape. And NOT the kind of sports tape used for taping handles of racquets, bats etc--the kind used to tape wrists or ankles.

If any of this doesn't make sense--ask more questions like Chesa did and I'll watch this thread and answer as I see posts.

But please, read that other thread--I think you'll find it informative.

PS If you are still giving additional calcium stop doing that--even very poor quality dog foods these days contain plenty of calcium and phosphorus (they need both) in the appropriate ratios and adding calcium really doesn't harden cartilage but sure can cause some other problems for your puppy.

Last edited by dobebug; 05-25-2018 at 04:11 PM. Reason: To add
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 04:35 PM
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This is the thread bug is talking about

https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-crop...s-posting.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Hi isy777,

I know you've said you've read every post on fixing ears so if it turns out you've read all the way through this one I apologize but when the pictures finally posted I thought the information I gave to Chesa (who was having the same problem you've had--keeping the posts in the ears. Her dog shook his head and your dog scratches his ears) but the same fix works for both.

So please go and read a thread started by Chesa on 3/17/18 entitled Sores from posting. Read the whole thing. Especially #9 by dobebug, #13 by Chesa, #15 by dobebug and #17--but reading start to finish may be helpful. So much of trying to explain exactly HOW to do something when posting is understanding what is going wrong and what the poster is still not understanding. That's why this whole thread worked well--when Chesa didn't understand why I was telling her to do something she asked for more specifics.

She was not really dealing with pockets and you are but the first cure for the pockets is getting the dog to leave the posts in long enough to fix the pockets.

So the only thing different for you is to add a bumper to the post. I can see from your pictures that he's got a definite crease in each ear right where it attached to the top of the skull. For a pocket like I use a bumper long enough to fit ACROSS the pocket (the crease you see)--it works better and faster to eliminate a pocket than the vertical bumper that gets attached to the post itself. I use a slice off of a piece of backer rod--back tape it with Zonas tape and stick it directly to the pocket (the crease) the round side goes against the pocket to push it out--flat side will go against the post when you put that in--then insert the post--pull the ear up and tip it out a little (so that the posted ears will sit at 10 & 2 as on a clock face.

If you can't find Zonas tape the substitute would be a sports tape (NOT a self amalgamating tape0 a low tack (not very sticky) breathable fabric tape. And NOT the kind of sports tape used for taping handles of racquets, bats etc--the kind used to tape wrists or ankles.

If any of this doesn't make sense--ask more questions like Chesa did and I'll watch this thread and answer as I see posts.

But please, read that other thread--I think you'll find it informative.

PS If you are still giving additional calcium stop doing that--even very poor quality dog foods these days contain plenty of calcium and phosphorus (they need both) in the appropriate ratios and adding calcium really doesn't harden cartilage but sure can cause some other problems for your puppy.
If you look at the tutorial I made for posting ears take note of the part about "bumpers" in particular. In order to work the pockets out of your pup's ears you will need to make the bumpers pretty big, put them in the right position, and really stretch the ears up on to the posts to help push the pockets out. You will probably want to use 5/8" backer rod for the posts.

Where are you located? It might help to have someone on DT or a good doberman show breeder or doberman show person help you in person.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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I have stopped giving him calcium a while ago because I have informed myself better about it and decided it was the best thing to do. I will definitely check out the thread and keep you updated!

I appreciate your help!
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
This is the thread bug is talking about

https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-crop...s-posting.html



If you look at the tutorial I made for posting ears take note of the part about "bumpers" in particular. In order to work the pockets out of your pup's ears you will need to make the bumpers pretty big, put them in the right position, and really stretch the ears up on to the posts to help push the pockets out. You will probably want to use 5/8" backer rod for the posts.

Where are you located? It might help to have someone on DT or a good doberman show breeder or doberman show person help you in person.
Greenkouki--the puppy owner isn't in the United State--in the Balkans.

PS Your new sticky for posting is much betters. The stuff in the thread you fixed (thank you, thank you) with a real link is additional information mostly for people whose dogs are very persistent about shaking or scratching posts out.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Greenkouki--the puppy owner isn't in the United State--in the Balkans.

PS Your new sticky for posting is much betters. The stuff in the thread you fixed (thank you, thank you) with a real link is additional information mostly for people whose dogs are very persistent about shaking or scratching posts out.
Whoops, missed that!

To the original poster- I would not glue the posts in if it can be avoided. I think maybe you just need more feedback on your posting job. Put up a few pictures of the ears in posts.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, so I have followed the posting tutorial to the best of my ability. I've shoved the posts down his ear as far as it would allow me, and I have added the bumper too, hence why it might look a little thicker. Here are the pics, I'm looking foward to your feedback guys!

Last edited by isy777; 12-19-2018 at 03:52 AM.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 09:05 AM
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If that's as high as he can hold his ears in posts it looks like you did a great job, and the pockets will start to work themselves out. Time will tell if he can shake them out!
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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I certainly hope so! He's been very persistent so far with trying to remove it by scratching and shaking his head, but it's not going anywhere! I hope it will stay in for another couple of days. I will keep you updated.

I've stretched his ears as far as possible, The tip of the posts is only 1/2 centimeters higher form his ear tips. Wish me luck!!
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 10:44 AM
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Hi issy.

I just wanted mention that I know some folks put socks or booties on their dogs feet to prevent them from using their nails to scratch at some irritation. I do't know if it would work for ear posts. I just thought I would toss that out.

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With every post you will get better and better.....keep up the good work......
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hi issy.

I just wanted mention that I know some folks put socks or booties on their dogs feet to prevent them from using their nails to scratch at some irritation. I do't know if it would work for ear posts. I just thought I would toss that out.

John
Portland OR
Thanks for the suggestion!
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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We've been out and about for 2 hours this morning, with some intense playing with other dogs, and the posts are still staying in! He also stopped scratching them. This is looking good!
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 02:08 PM
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Woot!

Good job! (Both of you)

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 08:33 AM
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Yeah.......keep on keep'in on!
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 12:17 PM
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Looking good - hope they stay in!
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Hey there guys! His ears have been doing great, they stood up for 1 whole day which is sooo amazing! I have taken out his posts today and there were some sores. One, in particular, was oozing a bit of puss. Should I just put some antibiotic ointments on it to help it heel? They are all small in size, but still, I would hate for him to get an infection!

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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isy777 View Post
Hey there guys! His ears have been doing great, they stood up for 1 whole day which is sooo amazing! I have taken out his posts today and there were some sores. One, in particular, was oozing a bit of puss. Should I just put some antibiotic ointments on it to help it heel? They are all small in size, but still, I would hate for him to get an infection!

Thanks, I appreciate it!
If there's pus, I would go to the vet, and don't put posts back in. You may need antibiotics and the ear posting definitely need to be put on hold until they are healed.


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Richter & Sypha
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