how do you strengthen the muscle by the ears? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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how do you strengthen the muscle by the ears?

GM DT Friends,

I have a question that I cannot seem to find a past thread about so here it goes.... Mina is 7 months and 1 week old and her ears still aren't standing. I took her posts from Monday out today and they will both stand for a minute, then one falls. I always thought it was her left ear that wouldn't stand but this morning the tables had turned and the left was up and the right was down. She likes to keep her ears back almost like a horse does. I use squeaky toys to no avail...they will sometimes get one to go up if I'm lucky. When she gets them both up we throw a party and tell her what a good girl she is and "GOOD EARS UP MINA"!
Here is the mystery....when she hears something outside or a noise she is unsure of, BAM both ears go right up! Why can't I make her do that with the squeak toys? How can I strengthen whatever muscle that is to make her put them up more often? For the last 2 weeks I have taken her to the vet to get posted, only because his posts are so strong and I thought maybe I was doing something wrong or perhaps changing them too often. Since I don't use too much tape when i do it, I generally have to change them every 2-3 days. If i use the ole trusty method with backer rod, duck tape and paper tape, I can get them to last 5 days. Hair curler method lasts Mina about 2 days on average (longer if Moose isn't here). When I change posts it is right away, I remove, clean, dry and repost all in one sitting. I mostly bridge but tried not bridging for a few weeks and it seemed we were taking steps back instead of forward so I added the bridge again. My breeder also bridges every time until the puppies ears are finished and they have had great success for 30 years using the bridge throughout the entire process. Moose and the 3 puppies I got for my family and my neighbor, were done at 5.5-6 months and all 4 dogs ears look great. I realize each dog is different and I will do what it takes to get hers to stand, I'm just trying to figure out how to make her use whatever muscle that is that makes the ears go up. The vet can perform a surgery which makes her ears permanently stay up, but I'm not anywhere near having to make that decision yet. I will post at least a year before making that call. Any advice from my DT Veterans would be greatly appreciated. TIA, AJ
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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oh and I forgot to mention that I have ruled out broken cartilage
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 10:44 AM
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It's unclear to me whether you mean her ears actually won't stand because of weakness in her ear leather, or because she just doesn't hold them up very often.

Not holding up her ears except when she is at the alert can be fairly normal for a doberman. At least, they do not stand up erect all of the time. Dobes tend to fold their ears back when they are greeting their people or want some attention. And when they are running around and having fun. Or maybe when they are just hanging around snoozing.

If it is a problem with her ears not standing as they should after they have been posted, 7 months old is not totally out of the realms of normal. But I can understand you feeling impatient.

Post us some pictures of what you want and what you are worried about so we can see what is going on. And when you have them posted so we can see how they look then. Maybe we can come up with suggestions and advice about whether you need to change anything. Or patiently just keep on going as you are

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 11:30 AM
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Not holding up her ears except when she is at the alert can be fairly normal for a doberman. At least, they do not stand up erect all of the time. Dobes tend to fold their ears back when they are greeting their people or want some attention. And when they are running around and having fun. Or maybe when they are just hanging around snoozing.

That is what I was going to say - I have noticed that when they are at ease - like around the house - They will let there's down or laid back - I notice this more in the girls - Now Mr Business - seems to be on alert all the time - cars go - school bus - motorcycles - Even when the National Guard choppers go over - he's on it . I guess the guys are more at work than girls just sitting around eating Bon Bon's watching TV - lmao

BTW-- JUST KIDDING !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 12:12 PM
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I will pass on the best advice from our breeder of 'Kiri' when I would call in frustration at Kiri's ears doing the same as you desscribe. She would say, ' Just keep posting'. At age 2 I was still ' keeping posting' and finally told Joan that
I had done everything and felt that ear was not destined to never stand properly.

I realized that meant her show career was probably over, too, but after a month in resignation, I just could not
stand to see that beautiful face carrying one floppy ear. Mustered enough grit to say, we are going to post that ear
for another year if we have to and never let the post out. By that time Kiri was so used to having her ear posted
that when she would see the tape and scissors she would come from wherever she was to stand by us with that
particular ear ready for treatment. I am sure she felt like, 'this is life get used to it'.

Two months later, at 26 months of age, that ear conceded the loss and that I had won, ha. It never showed
weakness again. Sooooo..... 'Keep posting!'
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
It's unclear to me whether you mean her ears actually won't stand because of weakness in her ear leather, or because she just doesn't hold them up very often.

Not holding up her ears except when she is at the alert can be fairly normal for a doberman. At least, they do not stand up erect all of the time. Dobes tend to fold their ears back when they are greeting their people or want some attention. And when they are running around and having fun. Or maybe when they are just hanging around snoozing.

If it is a problem with her ears not standing as they should after they have been posted, 7 months old is not totally out of the realms of normal. But I can understand you feeling impatient.

Post us some pictures of what you want and what you are worried about so we can see what is going on. And when you have them posted so we can see how they look then. Maybe we can come up with suggestions and advice about whether you need to change anything. Or patiently just keep on going as you are


This is when the vet posts her ears..... I took this a couple of days ago



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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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I would like for her ears to be up like Moosey . I know the diff between relaxed ears, alert ears and sleepy ears. I get it, what I don’t understand is why Minas won’t go up despite me squeaking toys.....



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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:28 PM
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I'm not being a smart a-- here - But - Do you think she can hear ok ??
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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When I post


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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And this was on December 5. It’s like what happened?!



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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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And this is today 2 min after I took her posts out . I was using a squeaky toy to get her attention and they won’t go up. It looks like she is trying but can’t . What could have possibly happened between dec 5 and now ?



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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:40 PM
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Your posting looks pretty good. *Maybe*, and I can't quite tell from your pictures--are you pulling the ears back slightly as well as upward, so that the ears end up slanting backwards a little when they are posted?? Or is that just her being "relaxed"?

Aside from that, it may just be a matter of continuing to post her.

Waiting for other opinions........

Posted this before I saw your last picture....let me think....
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:55 PM
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I would simply keep posting. Is I posted our recent youngest until 8 months and then supported the tips with mole foam for an additional 6 weeks. I've know a number of people who ended up posting for at least a year. I liked Cressrb's comment about posting for over 2 years.

Also.... In that recent pic, are you sure she isn't just holding her ears that way. My McCoy holds his ears like that frequently. We call it "flagging". Maybe she's just pissed that you took her posts out! LOL

Nice looking girl.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 01:59 PM
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We call it the "flying nun" look.....but this pic doesn't look quite like that to me.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:16 PM
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It looks like the cartilige isn't hardening to me. Have you considered putting her on a supplement? Ester-C and glucosamine is what I would do (that's what Sypha was on), and keep posting! I wouldn't be leaving her ears down at all, and I wouldn't use any vet wrap as it's just going to add weight to the ears - it doesn't do anything to help with the posts. She may have thick ear leather that makes it take longer for her ears to go up. She may be one that it takes longer, too. Some dogs take a longgggg time.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
It looks like the cartilige isn't hardening to me. Have you considered putting her on a supplement? Ester-C and glucosamine is what I would do (that's what Sypha was on), and keep posting! I wouldn't be leaving her ears down at all, and I wouldn't use any vet wrap as it's just going to add weight to the ears - it doesn't do anything to help with the posts. She may have thick ear leather that makes it take longer for her ears to go up. She may be one that it takes longer, too. Some dogs take a longgggg time.


What brand ?


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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:32 PM
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Ester-C is a particular brand: Ester C

I used a generic glucosamine supplement


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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:45 PM
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Allison, honestly we had the SAME thing happen with Kiri. At six months I entered her in her first show and
the ears were beautiful. About 8 months they fell flat like your girl. So puzzling. From then on it was a battle.
But, I did win and you will, too.
Meadow's post reminded me I did start a regimine of the C and glucosomine/condroitin. It certainly did not
shorten the time, but in the end they did stand. I really feel your pain and worry.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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So there is someone outside unloading something from a truck and they closed their tailgate. This startled her and she put up her ear.


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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
I will pass on the best advice from our breeder of 'Kiri' when I would call in frustration at Kiri's ears doing the same as you desscribe. She would say, ' Just keep posting'. At age 2 I was still ' keeping posting' and finally told Joan that
I had done everything and felt that ear was not destined to never stand properly.

I realized that meant her show career was probably over, too, but after a month in resignation, I just could not
stand to see that beautiful face carrying one floppy ear. Mustered enough grit to say, we are going to post that ear
for another year if we have to and never let the post out. By that time Kiri was so used to having her ear posted
that when she would see the tape and scissors she would come from wherever she was to stand by us with that
particular ear ready for treatment. I am sure she felt like, 'this is life get used to it'.

Two months later, at 26 months of age, that ear conceded the loss and that I had won, ha. It never showed
weakness again. Sooooo..... 'Keep posting!'
You deserve a special honor for posting over 2yrs.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 03:12 PM
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LoL, Alan. Yeah, I thought so, too. Doesn't the Club, or somebody have a prize for this?

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 04:45 PM
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I give a glucosamine supplement but years ago a vet recommended not using glucosamine chondroitin but glucosamine in a form without chondroitin--he suggested Costco's glucosamine MSN instead (it's under their Kirkland label).

He had a specific reason for not using glucosamine chondroitin but it's been so many years I don't remember. He cropped Dobes and Boxers--show crops in Washington state for years and bred German Shepherd Dogs and Corgis.

One of the reasons I don't generally use a bridge beyond the first month of posting is that ears posted without a bridge leave more possibility for puppies to use the muscles that allow them to rotate and perk up their ears. If you are bridging the bridge should be pretty loose so that the puppy can move the ears freely.

And as far as getting puppy to put their ears up--some dogs just don't respond a lot to noises or even high value treats to raise their ears. Some will respond much more quickly to a visual attractor--a thrown toy. If you are ever at a dog show--go and watch how the photographers get dogs with cropped or naturally standing ears to get their ears up for a win picture. At least half the time the dogs are tired and sometimes burned out by a long day at a show and only something thrown in front of them will get their ear up.

In the meantime--keep posting.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 07:54 AM
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Alot of growth going on all over this pups body sucking up calcium ...keep those ears up as much as possible.
Once you take them down and air and note no lesions etc. Get those ears back up. These are crucial months for posting.
Cute pup.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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just when I thought all hope was lost


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