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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
I think all of the pictures didn't load for you but that's ok. a Couple people messaged me and I watched the video that Meadowcat posted so I think I'm going to try this method.
Only three pictures loaded for me (and as usual it took forever) two inside the car and one with him laying down looking into the camera--grass in the foreground and bushes behind him.

And of course dial up doesn't do videos.

So good luck--I'd like to know if the zipties make a difference in what the ear looks like after a couple of postings.
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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 03:35 PM
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@dobebug

"And of course dial up doesn't do videos."

You just crack me up! I just upgraded my flip phone to my wife's used 3 yo i phone.

Everyone is constantly on my case for not keeping up with technology. Still, if you are Fred Flintstone.... I am George Jetson!

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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 06:38 PM
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The Hook

Actually, the "hook" on the tip is caused by the cut edge drawing up at the tip as it heals. This does not happen if the tips are too blunt, but it does with the thinner tips you find on show crops. We have had ears cropped by several excellent croppers and all of them do this. They are cut straight, but the tips hook back slightly as they heal. I even try to keep then straight as I tape them so they do not hook too much, but it happens anyway.

Also, I have not seen your puppy, but I sympathize with your handler. We have had several buyers that are just not detail oriented enough and as long as they stand, they think it is good enough. Beautiful ears can make a mediocre head look better and so-so ears can make a good head look mediocre. Just my opinion.

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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
Actually, the "hook" on the tip is caused by the cut edge drawing up at the tip as it heals. This does not happen if the tips are too blunt, but it does with the thinner tips you find on show crops. We have had ears cropped by several excellent croppers and all of them do this. They are cut straight, but the tips hook back slightly as they heal. I even try to keep then straight as I tape them so they do not hook too much, but it happens anyway.
Yeah that's another reason that the "hook" shows up--scarring of the cut edge on a thin tip will also produce a hook. But I've thought that the hook produced that way looks somewhat different than the hook produced by a very long crop all the way out to the curve at the end of the natural ear. And there isn't any way to stop the little draw up that produces it on a very narrow show crop.

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Also, I have not seen your puppy, but I sympathize with your handler. We have had several buyers that are just not detail oriented enough and as long as they stand, they think it is good enough. Beautiful ears can make a mediocre head look better and so-so ears can make a good head look mediocre. Just my opinion.
I absolutely agree with this--and I haven't seen the puppy either and the pictures I've managed to load don't tell me much. But recently (as in the last 5 or 6 years) I've had puppy owners sent to me to "fix" the ears--make them stand more upright--in some cases the breeder/handlers have posted the ears for them and told them to post them that way. Which becomes an issue when the posting doesn't work even long enough to get out of the showgrounds parking lot and the owners come telling me that the ear was posted exactly the same way they've (the owners) been posting the ears.

I'm pretty picky about ears so I'm not inclined to let an ear be just "good enough". But I do know that the crop, the ear structure itself, skull shape and ear set are all going to have an influence on the finished ear and not every ear is going to stand entirely perpendicular to the topskull.
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenkaye27 View Post
My vet posted Louie's ears for the first time yesterday and used tongue depressors, seems like it's the same concept as zip ties
Agree
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post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
I'm pretty picky about ears so I'm not inclined to let an ear be just "good enough". But I do know that the crop, the ear structure itself, skull shape and ear set are all going to have an influence on the finished ear and not every ear is going to stand entirely perpendicular to the topskull.
I certainly agree with this. I think we are saying the same thing, but I find the ear set, thickness of the ear leather, and the muscle tension on the top of the head are the key parameters if the dog has a good crop to begin with. Some dogs also seem to control one ear better than another, kind of like right-handed or left-handed.

If the dog has a low ear set, the ears tend to point out and frequently will never be parallel. Thin ears are easier to stand, but also are much more prone to curling and may not have enough "starch" in them and may be difficult to get straight. A heavy ear will take longer to stand, but will usually be straighter when finished.

I believe that the puppy in question is just over 6 months old and I find few puppies that have finished ears at that age. It seem that they get 90% of the way there fairly quickly after they have their adult teeth, but getting the last 10% can seem like an eternity.

Lastly, not every dog will have a perfect crop if that is defined as both ears vertical, perfectly straight, and perfectly parallel. However, you should not stop too soon and try to get them as good as possible.

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post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 02:58 PM
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Yeah, Kansa--I think we are saying the same thing.

I've had dogs with great crops and great ear leather but slightly low ear sets--and there is nothing on the face of the earth that will get you that perfect set of parallel to each other and perpendicular to the top skull finished ear that I want to see when I call it quits on posting.

One of the best set of finished ears on one of my own dogs was on a dog who was almost finished before one ear stood properly--we went to shows with one ear posted and it stayed posted until just before his class and as soon as he didn't need to go in the ring again it got posted again. Finally it stood completely, all the time--didn't tip out didn't droop at the tip--being picky is so worth it. Still makes me smile to look at that dog and have him pick up those perfect ears and look back.

Lots of people want to stop too soon--if they are ears I'm involved with they don't get to quit with "good enough".
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post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 03:53 PM
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I use the zip tie method and I really like it. I find that it is fairly simple too, esp for a noob like me. Arrow's ears have been solely using this method. He has a full ear crop.
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post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 03:57 PM
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I know I would LOVE to see a tutorial similar to the backer rod sticky pinned (at the top of the forum) for zip tie posting- if anyone wants to volunteer! lol...

It just seems like those who use zipties (correctly) have very sharp, crisp ears.
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post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 04:00 PM
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IMO... Arrow's ears (crop and post) are as good as they get. Sheriff andMcCoy are Arrow's uncles... They agree!

I mean perfect!

JMO
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post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 04:41 PM
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I use the zip tie method and I really like it. I find that it is fairly simple too, esp for a noob like me. Arrow's ears have been solely using this method. He has a full ear crop.
[IMG][/IMG]

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IMO... Arrow's ears (crop and post) are as good as they get. Sheriff andMcCoy are Arrow's uncles... They agree!

I mean perfect!

JMO
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Thanks for posting Arrow's pics, Kate!

I also think Arrow has a lovely crop. Do you see what I mean, though...Arrow and Sypha are siblings. Cropped by the same cropper in the same style. Both have full length show crops. But because of different ear lengths, ear set, head shape, etc...they look different. Kate and I are posting them them same (she may be a touch more OCD than I am, but not much! ). So there's a lot that plays into what the final ear "look" becomes.
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post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 05:10 PM
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Thanks for posting Arrow's pics, Kate!

I also think Arrow has a lovely crop. Do you see what I mean, though...Arrow and Sypha are siblings. Cropped by the same cropper in the same style. Both have full length show crops. But because of different ear lengths, ear set, head shape, etc...they look different. Kate and I are posting them them same (she may be a touch more OCD than I am, but not much! ). So there's a lot that plays into what the final ear "look" becomes.
Agreed! The boys did have slightly longer ears than the females. Not by a ton. The whole litter had great ear leather! I feel like we are going to be posting longer though. Seems like some are getting close to being done or done. His are coming along, but we've still got some months ahead of us.



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post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 05:40 PM
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Beautiful ears on both Arrow and Sypha--my fawn dog, Toad, has ears that look like Arrow's--and they are related to Toad--second cousins one removed or something like that.

I'd be able to figure it out if I'd been born in South Carolina instead of South Dakota--it takes Southern lineage to figure out complex family relations.

PS I keep forgetting to ask and I've been meaning to ever since I saw the early cropped pictures of puppies in that litter. Who did crop them?

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post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 06:51 PM
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I honestly don't know lol. A vet in Texas. I'd imagine the same one Touchstone and Aura use.



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post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
I wonder if they had the same cropper, Maverick has that "hook" at the tip as well. Which I don't really understand. I've been having a hard time keeping posts in his ears so I'm hoping this method will work a bit better.
Arrow has the hook. I was asked by my breeder if I preferred it. It is a result of partially the crop and then mostly my breeder creating it with her posting him as a puppy.
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post #41 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I tried this today and I'm a little scared. That spray adhesive seems VeRY sticky! Is there something I can use to help remove the posts if it does stick too well? It's so scary Changing methods!

Oh and I used my old method for about 4 days and right away I could see what my handler was talking about.
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post #42 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Ok I tried this today and I'm a little scared. That spray adhesive seems VeRY sticky! Is there something I can use to help remove the posts if it does stick too well? It's so scary Changing methods!

Oh and I used my old method for about 4 days and right away I could see what my handler was talking about.
I don't use the method exactly as in the video, so I don't use the spray adhesive. Instead of that second piece of tape sticky side down on top of the zip tie, I use transpore tape sticky side UP - and that attaches to the ear. Transpore tape is a medical tape that sticks to the ear itself safely.


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post #43 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 08:55 PM
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I honestly don't know lol. A vet in Texas. I'd imagine the same one Touchstone and Aura use.
I think it was Dr. Schaffer in Frisco.


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post #44 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:20 PM
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Sypha sounds wonderful, who are her Sire and Dam? Lovely head and ear crop!
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post #45 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:30 PM
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Sypha sounds wonderful, who are her Sire and Dam? Lovely head and ear crop!
Thank you! Sypha and Arrow are from Sirai Dobermans' most recent litter...she's a member here. You can see the whole litter grow up here: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...pups-here.html

Sypha was the black collar puppy (code name "Panther" )

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post #46 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 11:43 AM
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I think it was Dr. Schaffer in Frisco.
Thanks Rosemary,

I thought it looked like a Schaffer crop--that's mostly why I was asking..
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