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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Fawn neutered Dobie needs help

So I've spoken to a few of you regarding where I got my my dobe Hoss, but for those I haven't, here's a run down. My boss does lots of dobe rescue on her own, getting them in, getting them fixed and healthy and finding them homes. She's been at it awhile, and done an amazing job.

But her latest dobe, a fawn boy, is proving to be a tough case. He came in about 7 months ago, he was HW positive, weighing in at about 53lbs (he was GROSS), and in heart failure (go figure, a heart FULL of worms in failure..) The vet said he had a 50/50 chance of either just dropping over dead, or surviving. We had wanted to get him to gain some weight first, get him stronger, but with his heart in failure, there just wasnt time. So she went for it.

Amazingly enough, he survived! He's gone through THREE HW treatments, those of you that know HW, know what an incredible feat that is! He has also gained nearly 40lbs while with us. So right now, he is HW free, at a great weight, and over all, VERY healthy! (though his heart is going to have to be monitored closely the rest of his life)

He's a gorgeous, VERY handsome boy who loves love. So here's where it gets tricky, he's become VERY possessive/ aggressive, not only of my boss, but of the daycare, his kennel, etc. The thing is, I've worked with a LOT of aggressive/possessive dogs, I know what makes them tick. I also think there is more to his story than just being possessive of things/people. I think at some point, someone beat the hell out of him.

Let me explain.

When you don't make eye contact, or call him over, or attempt to tell him to do anything, he will come up to you like your average dobe, shoving his nose in anywhere it'll fit to get some love. BUT if you attempt to ask/tell him to come, he flips the hell out. If he's been rotten, I can holler at him to knock it off and sit down, and he will.. he sits and looks guilty, stops what he was doing and most of the time once I've walked away, will come up behind me and nuzzle my hand, like.. "Sorry, you're not mad right?" normal behavior.

But my guess is, someone would command him to come, then did something awful to him, cause if you call his name, or tell him to come, that's when he freaks out on you. When I say freak out, I mean charges full speed at you, snapping and snarling, which is the point where I whip out my handy dandy spray bottle, a gesture that more often than not, stops him in his tracks.

If I didnt have four dogs of my own (one being a dobe that already needs some work) and had the time, I would take him on, find out what makes him snap, and work on it. But alas, I do NOT have the time to take on a severe case like him. Nor does my boss, she has a business to run, a wedding to plan, and a baby on the way, plus she has 6 dogs of her own (5 dobes and a mutt) as well as another foster dobe with a degenerative spine that of recent, can no longer even walk on his own. (sadly may have to be put down soon, poor sweet guy) So she has WAY too much on her plate, and consistency in a dog daycare setting is tough.

To be completely honest, if it were anyone elses dog and they either couldnt or wouldnt get professional help for this dog, I'd suggest putting him down.

Please let me be clear, this is NOT an option I take lightly when it comes to behavior. But I ALWAYS put human safety first, I do NOT want to get into any sort of discussion or argument about behavioral euthanasia.

He really is a danger in the current circumstance, a case where either the foster parent adopts the dog, or puts the dog down. I KNOW my boss will not euthanize him, it would break her heart, all of our hearts, especially after the fight he has won with HW. But with her own 6 dogs, her other foster, and a baby on the way, she can not take him home, the baby's safety would be at risk). I can not take him, I dont have the time/space, and my other coworkers do not have the knowledge/skills to safely work with him.

SO. the only other option is to find someone who can work with a severe case like him, he's going to need a LOT of help, and best case scenario, a job to help him cope and to put his energy towards instead of possession and whatever is causing the aggression.

If you know of anyone who can work with a dog like this, please let me know. He really is a sweet dog, I just think he has some wires crossed, and needs someone that will understand him, and that he will understand, so they can work together to make him a beneficial member of human/dog society.

Dog is located in NE Ohio.

I have pictures of him somewhere.. of when we first got him and now, I'll find them and upload them
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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it is going to be hard to find someone with the knowledge to deal with his issues.

sometimes it is best to release them from whatever demons haunt them.

I hope the best for this boy. but not sure what is best for him.

Hugz to the fawn boy.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I know. Though I fear my boss wouldn't consider that option until he's done damage to someone... and honestly in the current situation, it's only a matter of time. *sigh* so I've been doing what I can to try and find someone with the skills... but with her other foster circling the drain, I think she'd have a melt down at the thought of loosing both her fosters.

Thanks for the reply... this is when it's a good thing I dont know who did this to him... cause I'd beat the **** out of them. People really suck sometimes.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 08:36 PM
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 08:50 PM
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I wish him the best! When my Fiance and I got together he had a dog who would snap and bite after he had done anything he knew was wrong.... My Fiance said his step father wasn't so kind with him and that's why he took him when he moved out... After 2 years of trying he seemed like it was all gone he was happy.. We tested him with other dogs and he seemed fine.. Intill we thought it would be ok to bring a puppy home.. He was fine for a few days and then one day he was asleep on the floor and so was Dozer.. He just got up and walked over to Dozer silently and grabbed him by the face and started attacking him... We pulled them apart.. Chris didn't belive it was as bad he wasn't home... He said put them out together and lets see... They were fine for hours.. He got up from his sleep again and went to attack Dozer I pulled him off and he attacked me... The vet said his best option was to put him to sleep.... We did try rehoming the puppy first...He was a Kijiji mixed mutt so no one wanted him... It was so sad but sometimes they are better off in heaven so they can be a peace.

While we were trying to rehome the pup they were in separate living areas and I would walk the King Shepard and he would launch at everyone and anyone who passed him to attack them and any dogs.... He would sit in the window and growl... We flipped a switch... I regret flipping it I loved him so much...I would go back and change time... I wanted to keep him but chris said if he hurt someone they would do worse </3

Message im getting across is.. Seek veterinary help... If they don't think there's to much damage do what they think it best... He may just want enteral peace... He could be haunted by his past and cant let go...

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley View Post
So I've spoken to a few of you regarding where I got my my dobe Hoss, but for those I haven't, here's a run down. My boss does lots of dobe rescue on her own...

But my guess is, someone would command him to come, then did something awful to him, cause if you call his name, or tell him to come, that's when he freaks out on you. When I say freak out, I mean charges full speed at you, snapping and snarling, which is the point where I whip out my handy dandy spray bottle, a gesture that more often than not, stops him in his tracks.


I have pictures of him somewhere.. of when we first got him and now, I'll find them and upload them
My suggestion would be to call him a different name, such as "Pup," or "Boy," or whatever feels comfortable to you.

And, if calling him to "Come," sends him into a berserk display of aggression, maybe, someone used that word, "Come," as an aggression queue, or a flat out aggressive-attack command.

Instead of using the word, "Come," to come to your side, use another word, like "here," or "place."

If these sheer words are setting him off, then I would be implementing a plan to avoid those words.

(I knew a Police officer, ages ago, that the "Bite command," for his Police K9 was " F**k you."
His philosophy was that if the perp was about to become combative, the perp would usually say "F*** you!" His K9 Police dog was trained automatically to engage when this phrase was used.).
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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LOL! That's the most amazing police dog EVER!

I'd agree with you about the name, accept that we changed it when he arrived. He learned his new name quickly... but yeah, I'm working on ways to get him to come... so far a leg pat works about 40% of the time.. if he feels like it, lol. But in the long run, he needs a home, not a patch job. Plus with 4-8 people coming and going in the daycare, it's neigh impossible to get ANY sort of consistency.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 08:12 PM
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re: Fawn neutered Dobie needs help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley View Post
...
BUT if you attempt to ask/tell him to come, he flips the hell out.
...
He's telling you what to do. You have identified his trigger.

This may not be the ultimate solution but it's a place to start.

- everyone should stop telling or asing him to do anything.
- instead start using scent and hand signals to motivate and redirect.
- the only talk he should experience is positive talk.
- keep in mind that he may never respond the same way other dogs do; he may be a dog that always needs to be managed differently.

It's amazing how difficult it can be to stop talking to a dog at first. But talk is our language, not theirs. If he's eager to please, hopefully he'll start trying to figure out what you want.

An evaluation by a certified behaviorist will be worth its weight in gold and it sounds like he is worth it.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apolda View Post
He's telling you what to do. You have identified his trigger.

This may not be the ultimate solution but it's a place to start.

- everyone should stop telling or asing him to do anything.
- instead start using scent and hand signals to motivate and redirect.
- the only talk he should experience is positive talk.
- keep in mind that he may never respond the same way other dogs do; he may be a dog that always needs to be managed differently.

It's amazing how difficult it can be to stop talking to a dog at first. But talk is our language, not theirs. If he's eager to please, hopefully he'll start trying to figure out what you want.

An evaluation by a certified behaviorist will be worth its weight in gold and it sounds like he is worth it.

Apolda
I agree completely he needs to be evaluated.

The rest of this... A dog that needs "his language" only, and not human speech or interaction? What kind of life is that? A dog that has to be totally isolated from any human interaction beyond a "mute" handler? If the dog is so dangerous that human speech is a trigger, it becomes a quality of life issue.

Being so lost in his own head that he cannot interact with people in the most basic way is kind of a sad way to exist.

If there are people, or a person, willing to go this route I applaud them. That's asking a lot


Last edited by monicaei; 07-08-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 09:23 PM
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I would start by changing his name. Something new that does not at all sound similar to his old name so he does not associate that sound with past anymore. Dogs usually do great with a new name when they go to a new owner.

Sorry I just saw the other posts already suggesting it.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2013, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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The thing is, its not always the same trigger. Sometimes it sets him off, sometimes not.


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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
I agree completely he needs to be evaluated.

The rest of this... A dog that needs "his language" only, and not human speech or interaction? What kind of life is that? A dog that has to be totally isolated from any human interaction beyond a "mute" handler? If the dog is so dangerous that human speech is a trigger, it becomes a quality of life issue.

Being so lost in his own head that he cannot interact with people in the most basic way is kind of a sad way to exist.

If there are people, or a person, willing to go this route I applaud them. That's asking a lot
Your interpretation is incorrect.

At no time did I suggest that nobody should talk to the dog.

What I did say, is "the only talk he should experience is positive talk".

Instead of triggering the dog's behavior by calling him, I suggested using his nose/scent and hand signals to elicit the desired behavior.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apolda View Post
He's telling you what to do. You have identified his trigger.

This may not be the ultimate solution but it's a place to start.

- everyone should stop telling or asing him to do anything.
- instead start using scent and hand signals to motivate and redirect.
- the only talk he should experience is positive talk.
- keep in mind that he may never respond the same way other dogs do; he may be a dog that always needs to be managed differently.

It's amazing how difficult it can be to stop talking to a dog at first. But talk is our language, not theirs. If he's eager to please, hopefully he'll start trying to figure out what you want.

An evaluation by a certified behaviorist will be worth its weight in gold and it sounds like he is worth it.

Apolda
I am sorry I misinterpreted this, however the piece you bolded struck me as odd.. "everyone should stop telling or asking him to do anything".

Seriously? A dog you cannot communicate with at all? That's pretty extreme. I commend anyone willing to go this route, but in a rescue situation it IS somewhat extraordinary.

Locating a foster home and expecting them to "stop telling or asking the dog to do anything" would be quite a find, in my expierence.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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It's also hard not to talk to him in the daycare setting when we need him to go up for a meal, or if he is getting to rowdy, etc. I've been working with him a bit and he is getting a bit better. But he really just needs a home.


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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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So we had a bit of a showdown, I couldn't take him being a douche anymore. After about 10-15 mins, we came to an understanding: stop attempting to eat me, I'm not backing down, and I WILL come after you! Two weeks later and not a single attempt to eat me. Though he HAS gone after one of my coworkers *sigh* He isn't too far gone, he just needs someone that won't back down.


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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-28-2013, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
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So we had a bit of a showdown, I couldn't take him being a douche anymore. After about 10-15 mins, we came to an understanding: stop attempting to eat me, I'm not backing down, and I WILL come after you! Two weeks later and not a single attempt to eat me. Though he HAS gone after one of my coworkers *sigh* He isn't too far gone, he just needs someone that won't back down.


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Just now seeing this.

Thanks for doing what you can, for this boy.

I worked with some who were like this--the homes that can 1. handle him correctly and safely and 2. Actually want, and are able to take, a dog like him are rare as hen's teeth, but you already knew that.

Good luck, and vibes.




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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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Just thinking of this dog, and wondering what has happened with him.




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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, my boss took him home, hoping a home atmosphere would help... If anything, he has gotten worse. I did his nails the other day, my boss had to muzzle him before i even came in the room, and he was snarling and snapping the entire time.

To make matters worse, he had his 6mos heartworm check after being through three treatments and being on preventative... He has tested positive for heartworm... Again. So he is going through treatment... again. *sigh* i love my boss. I love that she is doing everything she can, but i seriously think he needs to be put out of his misery. Something she wont even consider... Even though she is the ONLY one that can get near him without him trying to bite (including her husband!) i dont even know what to do at this point, she wants to send him to a trainer once his treatment is done, i just dont think he is salvageable anymore. Plus shes due to have a baby in january!! Not the kind of dog you want around a baby!! Im so frustrated right now.


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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:05 PM
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Ok, my boss took him home, hoping a home atmosphere would help... If anything, he has gotten worse. I did his nails the other day, my boss had to muzzle him before i even came in the room, and he was snarling and snapping the entire time.

To make matters worse, he had his 6mos heartworm check after being through three treatments and being on preventative... He has tested positive for heartworm... Again. So he is going through treatment... again. *sigh* i love my boss. I love that she is doing everything she can, but i seriously think he needs to be put out of his misery. Something she wont even consider... Even though she is the ONLY one that can get near him without him trying to bite (including her husband!) i dont even know what to do at this point, she wants to send him to a trainer once his treatment is done, i just dont think he is salvageable anymore. Plus shes due to have a baby in january!! Not the kind of dog you want around a baby!! Im so frustrated right now.


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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, and an update on the red boy with degenerative spine: he passed a few months ago. RIP buster brown what a good sweet boy he was.


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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Something that you and i understand meadow, but i dont know how to get her to. Especially after having lost her last foster boy. I think shes spent somewhere around 6k on this fawn boy at this point. I cant get her to understand that she has in NO way failed this dog, she did what she could.

Im ashamed to say i had kinda hoped he wouldnt survive the last round of hw treatments. Terrible i know, but would have been the best case scenario. *sigh*


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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:12 PM
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Can you help her try to look at it from the dog's point of view? How miserable he is, feeling that anxious and unsure all the time, so much so that he can't trust anyone? I would hate to live like that, and I'd hate for anyone I loved to live like that.


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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, so she just dropped him off at a trainers, he is going to go through 30-60days of "behavior modification training" after, she will make the decision based on the results of the training! Cross your. Fingers, i have no idea whats going to happen!


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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 10:50 AM
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hopefully its a reputable trainer( fingers crossed for this guy..
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-17-2014, 08:59 AM
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Any updates on this guy?



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