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post #76 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 08:44 PM
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I don't know if I have ever shared the story with you all about the woman who told me that Mocha's brain was going to get too big for her head and that she once participated in a surgery to save a dobes life by implanting a new skull!!!! She went on an on at the dog park and it took everything for me not to laugh!!! She even offered me her number in case it happened and I needed help!!!! ROFL!!!!! What a hoot!!!!

As for dogs turning on their owners well dogs are animals and any animal can bite. I have been bitten by several different breeds but all were from sad backgrounds and I don't blame them one bit. Sadly one was a dobe who had been in foster for a year! It happens. The stats out there aren't overly accurate IMO, I know in Canada, they rarely even report dog bites, when I went to hospital for my bite they didn't even ask me what breed... So I don't think we will truly ever know here, I also find everything with a wide head is labeled a pit bull when really it could be anything!
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post #77 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 12:23 AM
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I don't know if I have ever shared the story with you all about the woman who told me that Mocha's brain was going to get too big for her head and that she once participated in a surgery to save a dobes life by implanting a new skull!!!! She went on an on at the dog park and it took everything for me not to laugh!!! She even offered me her number in case it happened and I needed help!!!! ROFL!!!!! What a hoot!!!!

As for dogs turning on their owners well dogs are animals and any animal can bite. I have been bitten by several different breeds but all were from sad backgrounds and I don't blame them one bit. Sadly one was a dobe who had been in foster for a year! It happens. The stats out there aren't overly accurate IMO, I know in Canada, they rarely even report dog bites, when I went to hospital for my bite they didn't even ask me what breed... So I don't think we will truly ever know here, I also find everything with a wide head is labeled a pit bull when really it could be anything!
I would have had a difficult time keeping a straight face. ROFL for sure!!!!
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post #78 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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LOL, that is the first thing my mother said to me when I told her our new dog was a doberman. I get that reaction from everyone else too. I was even hesitant in getting one due to the stereotype before I knew better. But, I must say that it is so far from the truth! I don't know if it's my dog or the breed but he is such a good dog. In comparison to our Lab which are supposed to be the 'best family dogs' he is MUCH more calm, reliable, affectionate, obedient, etc. etc. I can't imagine there are facts on this comment, I think it's a stereotype from movies, media, etc.
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post #79 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 11:28 AM
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[QUOTE=LeighaG81;120814]UGH. I cannot stand when someone tries to say that yet they have no actual evidence of documentation. And if there is, shame on me but am I crazy to disagree without substantial documentation to be proven wrong?

With that said, may I please have some feedback? I love pitbulls and dobermans but where is the evidence to this tall tale? QUOTE]

I get this all the time, and I mean all the time, as our dogs go everywhere with us, service dogs. When it is brought up with me I simply ask them to prove it. When they make up some story about how their childhood friend's parent's uncle's nephew's sister-in-law's grandpa had a dobe who killed him. Usually you can say that sounds like a tall tale. When they insist the story is true, I say look at my dog, he hasnt turned on me at all or anyone else. So I guess there was one bad dobe and now a good dobe, where does that leave the breed now? Even, but I know of hundreds of dobes that are "good" proving that dobes turn on their owners most is a false assumption.

Typically, by the time I am done with this explanation, they dont want to talk anymore.

As far as pit bulls are concerned, the only fear that people have with them is the fact that they are still bred to fight, sadly. Although, a lot of breeds are bred for fighting, pit bulls seem to be the chosen breed.

Those are my thoughts.
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post #80 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by avalonandon View Post
LOL!! I dont think you will find much..if any! I mean, the Doberman is the breed specifically designed to PROTECT its handler. The love and loyalty of the Doberman is legendary, and from my experience, unmatched.

Certainly it happens but the circumstances have to be mostly abuse related or psychological malformation in the dog - but that applies to ANY breed.

I agree fully with this statement. Dobermans are bred to PROTECT not ATTACK their people!!
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post #81 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BlackandTans View Post
I agree fully with this statement. Dobermans are bred to PROTECT not ATTACK their people!!
I thought I'd just chime in here to say that I've been attacked 3 separate times by my Doberman, he nipped my 6 year old son (at the time) and snapped at my wife twice. I believe I've chronicled the trials and tribulations a couple of years back on DT and/or the Leerburg message boards. I have some pretty ugly looking scars on my left arm that probably will still be there long after Harley visits the Rainbow Bridge.

None of the incidents were a result of abuse. Each time was the result of Harley "guarding" either (1) a space, (2) a piece of food, or (3) a person. Once I made the mistake acting so wantonly foolish to even consider walking into a space where he didn't believe I should be that he attacked me. (This was the penultimate battle where in the heat of it all I thought I was going to have to kill him to get him to stop. He must have sensed the shift in energy coming from me and then submitted.) Hello!! Another time my wife tossed him a treat, it bounced off his nose and went under a blanket. He had no idea where it went so my wife went over to help him. Bad idea! And the time with my son, I was petting Harley and my son came over to see me, and Harley snapped at him and nipped him. If I hadn't thrown Harley to the ground in a nanosecond, it probably would have been much worse.

He was between 8 and 12 months of age at the time, and it looked to be part of a larger "power grab" on his part. Well, since then, he's been through 14 weeks of formal obedience, hundreds of miles of structured walks, daily obedience, and a 100% NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) lifestyle.

He's an amazingly obedient dog now (for example, a squirrel can run by with him off-lead and he won't go after it without permission first), but whenever we slack off on the NILIF lifestyle, he self-empowers and thinks he can start ruling the roost again. If we ever let him become the "alpha" of the household, he would act like an alpha and would not hesitate to "correct" us from doing things he does not like. I could totally see how that would be misconstrued as him "turning" on us, when in reality it's purely logical when put in the framework of dog psychology.

Harley's temperament is definitely a bit "shakier" than most of the Dobes here on DT. I have a feeling that the Dobes represented here tend to be the honors student equivalent to the breed, while there are still some from questionable blood lines in the general public still scaring the living daylights out of people. Harley would have been one of those (and probably euthanized) if we didn't take drastic measures.

As long as we continue to keep clear and consistent boundaries in place, I truly believe he'll continue to be the great family dog that he has grown up to be over the past two years. However, I have no illusions that he would never bite me, or others in the family, again if we let him rise in the family hierachy in his own mind.
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post #82 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eph94 View Post
I thought I'd just chime in here to say that I've been attacked 3 separate times by my Doberman, he nipped my 6 year old son (at the time) and snapped at my wife twice. I believe I've chronicled the trials and tribulations a couple of years back on DT and/or the Leerburg message boards. I have some pretty ugly looking scars on my left arm that probably will still be there long after Harley visits the Rainbow Bridge.

None of the incidents were a result of abuse. Each time was the result of Harley "guarding" either (1) a space, (2) a piece of food, or (3) a person. Once I made the mistake acting so wantonly foolish to even consider walking into a space where he didn't believe I should be that he attacked me. (This was the penultimate battle where in the heat of it all I thought I was going to have to kill him to get him to stop. He must have sensed the shift in energy coming from me and then submitted.) Hello!! Another time my wife tossed him a treat, it bounced off his nose and went under a blanket. He had no idea where it went so my wife went over to help him. Bad idea! And the time with my son, I was petting Harley and my son came over to see me, and Harley snapped at him and nipped him. If I hadn't thrown Harley to the ground in a nanosecond, it probably would have been much worse.

He was between 8 and 12 months of age at the time, and it looked to be part of a larger "power grab" on his part. Well, since then, he's been through 14 weeks of formal obedience, hundreds of miles of structured walks, daily obedience, and a 100% NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) lifestyle.

He's an amazingly obedient dog now (for example, a squirrel can run by with him off-lead and he won't go after it without permission first), but whenever we slack off on the NILIF lifestyle, he self-empowers and thinks he can start ruling the roost again. If we ever let him become the "alpha" of the household, he would act like an alpha and would not hesitate to "correct" us from doing things he does not like. I could totally see how that would be misconstrued as him "turning" on us, when in reality it's purely logical when put in the framework of dog psychology.

Harley's temperament is definitely a bit "shakier" than most of the Dobes here on DT. I have a feeling that the Dobes represented here tend to be the honors student equivalent to the breed, while there are still some from questionable blood lines in the general public still scaring the living daylights out of people. Harley would have been one of those (and probably euthanized) if we didn't take drastic measures.

As long as we continue to keep clear and consistent boundaries in place, I truly believe he'll continue to be the great family dog that he has grown up to be over the past two years. However, I have no illusions that he would never bite me, or others in the family, again if we let him rise in the family hierachy in his own mind.
Im no expert and my dpg has her list of issues but NEVER has she ever challenged me or shown ANY aggression towards me, it sounds to me like your dog was lacking some boundaries and leadership.

There were probably signs that you missed when he was a puppy that were showing his possessiveness, although yes my dog has dogs in her background that were "Vicious" i wont deny it, and even the breeders daughter stated she was nasty nasty, i cant sit back and wait for it to happen with my dog i have to proactively make sure she knows im boss and not to try any of the crap with me.
Again it seems like this issue may have been able to be resolved with behaviourist and training and more clear boundaries. JMO
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post #83 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeighaG81 View Post
UGH. I cannot stand when someone tries to say that yet they have no actual evidence of documentation. And if there is, shame on me but am I crazy to disagree without substantial documentation to be proven wrong?

A friend of mine was telling another mutual friend about my foster doberman and how sweet she is. The woman (who is the owner of a pitbull) then tells my friend how dobermans are FAR more vicious then pitbulls, that pitbulls have the bad rap and it's really the dobes who are the vicious breed. She then stated that "dobermans signifigantly turn on their owners the most" while she was bad mouthing the breed.

With that said, may I please have some feedback? I love pitbulls and dobermans but where is the evidence to this tall tale?

Thanks everyone in advance.
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post #84 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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I've rescued and worked with a total of 8 dobermans so far in the past year that were rescues...purebreds and mixes, only one of them was catagorized as vicious and had to be put to sleep due to the vets concluding he had neurological issues and would attack.

BUT, I will say that with other rescues (mostly small dogs) I have been bit by chihuahuas, pekes and poms!


AND PS- I can't believe this post is still going! I wrote this back in January.

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Leigha -- Tell this woman the only thing you need to worry about turning on you that's Doberman related is their "bunghole." The stink bombs they can throw are real killers! *LOL*

Seriously, I've never seen a vicious Doberman yet. I've had 5 and 2 of them are what I would classify as extremely protective, but never vicious. One of the two has such a high prey instinct that I formally protection trained her to ensure her natural skills were used in a constructive way. She's an amazing girl -- immediately on "alert" when told to watch. Yet when released from watch mode, she's the biggest clown known to man!

My other three would attack with their tongues. Yeah...really vicious.

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Last edited by LeighaG81; 11-28-2008 at 08:57 PM. Reason: forgot a sentence
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post #85 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 08:35 PM
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I did read an article however about Doberman agression trends of about 35-40 years ago and prior. The article described that the breed in general had tendencies for smaller skulls. This would sometimes result in the brain continuing to grow and the skull staying the same size. This created pressure on their brain and would cause aggressive behavior and sometimes all out insanity. Apparently there was a move in the breeding community to fix this and the problem was more or less removed. But this was decades ago. Anybody have more info on this?
I dont think thats acurate,really. their brain would stop growing when the skull does.

Though the insane part,i'd belive that's a behaviour trait present since birth,and becomes peak during the doberteens.lol

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post #86 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 11:36 PM
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They do turn on their owners, they just have subtle ways of doing it.

Check out the threads on Doberman gas to see examples.
So true so true and oh the subtle ways they do.
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post #87 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 12:46 AM
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I was just attacked by two dobermans and I must say the slobber left on me is gross from the kissing attack!!!.
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post #88 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 01:21 AM
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I have just been attacked by my puppy. Even as I type, the life is being crushed out of me - she just got up on the bed with me and proceeded to lay right down on top of me LOL - she is 5 months old and pushing 50 lbs. Very subtle. Very subtle indeed.
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post #89 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by eph94 View Post
I thought I'd just chime in here to say that I've been attacked 3 separate times by my Doberman, he nipped my 6 year old son (at the time) and snapped at my wife twice. I believe I've chronicled the trials and tribulations a couple of years back on DT and/or the Leerburg message boards. I have some pretty ugly looking scars on my left arm that probably will still be there long after Harley visits the Rainbow Bridge.

None of the incidents were a result of abuse. Each time was the result of Harley "guarding" either (1) a space, (2) a piece of food, or (3) a person. Once I made the mistake acting so wantonly foolish to even consider walking into a space where he didn't believe I should be that he attacked me. (This was the penultimate battle where in the heat of it all I thought I was going to have to kill him to get him to stop. He must have sensed the shift in energy coming from me and then submitted.) Hello!! Another time my wife tossed him a treat, it bounced off his nose and went under a blanket. He had no idea where it went so my wife went over to help him. Bad idea! And the time with my son, I was petting Harley and my son came over to see me, and Harley snapped at him and nipped him. If I hadn't thrown Harley to the ground in a nanosecond, it probably would have been much worse.

He was between 8 and 12 months of age at the time, and it looked to be part of a larger "power grab" on his part. Well, since then, he's been through 14 weeks of formal obedience, hundreds of miles of structured walks, daily obedience, and a 100% NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) lifestyle.

He's an amazingly obedient dog now (for example, a squirrel can run by with him off-lead and he won't go after it without permission first), but whenever we slack off on the NILIF lifestyle, he self-empowers and thinks he can start ruling the roost again. If we ever let him become the "alpha" of the household, he would act like an alpha and would not hesitate to "correct" us from doing things he does not like. I could totally see how that would be misconstrued as him "turning" on us, when in reality it's purely logical when put in the framework of dog psychology.

Harley's temperament is definitely a bit "shakier" than most of the Dobes here on DT. I have a feeling that the Dobes represented here tend to be the honors student equivalent to the breed, while there are still some from questionable blood lines in the general public still scaring the living daylights out of people. Harley would have been one of those (and probably euthanized) if we didn't take drastic measures.

As long as we continue to keep clear and consistent boundaries in place, I truly believe he'll continue to be the great family dog that he has grown up to be over the past two years. However, I have no illusions that he would never bite me, or others in the family, again if we let him rise in the family hierachy in his own mind.
This is quite troubling...how can that be if the dog was raised properly? Was he from a byb?

Striving to become the most educated future Dobermann owner.
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post #90 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalonandon View Post
I did read an article however about Doberman agression trends of about 35-40 years ago and prior. The article described that the breed in general had tendencies for smaller skulls. This would sometimes result in the brain continuing to grow and the skull staying the same size. This created pressure on their brain and would cause aggressive behavior and sometimes all out insanity. Apparently there was a move in the breeding community to fix this and the problem was more or less removed. But this was decades ago. Anybody have more info on this?
Oh lord...how embarrassing! Cant believe I actually believed this at one point - but I was rightly given the critical beat down when I said it.



In my defense, this was back in January and I have learned A LOT from everyone here since then (MANY THANKS).

Last edited by avalonandon; 11-29-2008 at 06:35 AM.
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post #91 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 08:44 AM
 
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They are pure evil. They will turn on their loved ones at any moment. Can't you tell by this photo.

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post #92 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 08:59 AM
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you guys don't see the up side of this kind of BS...
it keeps our beloved Dobes from turning into the next Golden Retriever, Lab or Damnation..sorry Dalmation.
Can you imagine what would happen if the general public had a clue about how great these dogs really are??
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post #93 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenTN View Post
A Jack Russell killed a baby in a neighboring state last week- it was in last Sunday's paper. It happens with all breeds, most of the time nobody knows why. People try to find a reason, to place blame, just like SIDS but there is no "one breed" or "one reason". It is a sad fact of nature and a risk anyone takes when they put an animal in a house with people. We can either choose to accept that and minimize the risk or not allow pets in our home, plain and simple. I had a babysitter with the sweetes miniature daschaund that loved me (I was 5) but when my sister was born and her owner went to feed my sister the bottle (she was a newborn) the dog went nuts and tried to bite her- they had to lock her out of the room and call my mother.

And if anyone bothered to find out how many people killed dogs, the dogs should probably be legally protected from ever being owned, IMO.
What does SIDS have to do with this?




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post #94 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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wow, all this shows how much bad info there is out there about any dog breed. It also shows what happens when irresponsible people become dog owners. Then there is a problem & it just adds to the fairy tale.

Anyone ever notice that a good owner can have any breed of dog & not have an issue???
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post #95 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 02:58 PM
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I agree with you Julie.If you really know the breed why even ask about these crazy things.I am not worried about my two Rescues either,i know the breed.
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post #96 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 04:21 PM
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I've only had my boy for a little over a week, and people have been negative about us getting a Dobe. I do think if a dog of any breed is bred poorly that is when you run into problems. Cockers, which is the breed I show/breed are always getting a bad reputation for being mean with kids. Not at all true when they are bred to the standard. Any breed that is over bred because of it's popularity will have some dogs with temperament and health problems. Unfortunately the majority of people do not educate themselves before they buy a pet, but after they have them and they come with issues. A dog from a reputable breeder will be a better representative of the breed. I believe this is true of any breed.
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post #97 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 05:07 PM
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I dont know much about the circumstances but the vet tech where we take Isabell is a big doberman lover. She had 3 dobermans, one was a 18 month old doberdude she called diesel. I never saw diesel but she said he was huge. About a week after we got Isabell she informed us that she had to put him down because he attacked her husband. She said it was for no apparent reason, he just flipped out and bit him in the face. I guess it messed her husband up pretty good. I thought that sounded pretty strange that the dog did this and that they put him down. I personally think that all dogs need a strong leader to provided a balance of love, excercise, discipline and direction or they will become a problem.

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post #98 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 06:34 PM
 
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I dont know much about the circumstances but the vet tech where we take Isabell is a big doberman lover. She had 3 dobermans, one was a 18 month old doberdude she called diesel. I never saw diesel but she said he was huge. About a week after we got Isabell she informed us that she had to put him down because he attacked her husband. She said it was for no apparent reason, he just flipped out and bit him in the face. I guess it messed her husband up pretty good. I thought that sounded pretty strange that the dog did this and that they put him down. I personally think that all dogs need a strong leader to provided a balance of love, excercise, discipline and direction or they will become a problem.
Wow, I can not believe if this was the only issue & there wasn't a series of problems, that they put the dog down. Especially coming from a person working in a vet's office. Sounds to me that if this was the one issue, then Diesel was the boss in their house.
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post #99 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 07:48 PM
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Wow, I can not believe if this was the only issue & there wasn't a series of problems, that they put the dog down. Especially coming from a person working in a vet's office. Sounds to me that if this was the one issue, then Diesel was the boss in their house.

I agree. I would bet my bottom dollar that this dog had many episodes that lead up to the grand finale.


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post #100 of 112 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 10:56 PM
 
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The only things I have really been able to find in my research is that a very long while back that the temperment of the dobe was much, much sharper way back when.... but I've always researched that with rough treatment that eventually the dog will defend itself....

I do have a friend that had a female dobie some years ago that snapped at him, but I believe that it was his own fault.. He got the dog as a "macho thing" and kept her in a kennel in his garage and I think he was generally rough with her.... I guess he had her out of the cage one day and went to put her back in and she had enough of being locked up 24/7 and wasn't going back in....


It was odd because anybody that went over there was always scared to death of her and I used to play with her all the time and never heard as much as a growl when we were playing tug or frisbie etc? She was just all energy when she got out.
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