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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 06:13 AM
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One day you will look back at this and laugh, just not anytime soon. That was funny and I was laughing away at your description. Sorry for that, but it just wasn't your day with Red. He had an off day and made the best of it as it sounds. I would think we all have had them. You do have courage to try to continue on after the first few incidents, but it always seem to go down hill from there. I'm sure this was just a fluke and Red just didn't take his brain with him that day. And ofcourse these guys need to embarass us from time to time, just to make us better owners. I would have checked with the store to see if their security cameras caught this on tape or so. It would make an awesome video.



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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robinb View Post
We've all been there, I think I would change collars, I just refuse to be pulled around and find that a properly adjusted prong collar is self-correcting and works wonders. But the important thing is to keep taking him places. He will get better but you have to keep taking him out to as many places as possible.
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Originally Posted by Luvbirds59 View Post
I agree with Robin.....Red's size and strength alone warrent a pinch until he is a bit older....just to be safe.
You are both right, of course. I think I just have a bit of an elitist attitude when it comes to Red - like he can do no wrong or something - but he proved me wrong! LOL! He's a big, strong boy and I need to be able to control him.

Thank you guys, and everyone else who suggested trying the training collars again, and doing more intense obedience work near and in the stores. Sometimes I just need a reality check, and I got one, that's for sure! :biggrin55

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I would have checked with the store to see if their security cameras caught this on tape or so. It would make an awesome video.
omg that would be hilarious!! I would probably get intensely embarressed to watch the horror play out again, but you're right, it will be really funny later... lol



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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:35 AM
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I do agree that using a pinch collar would benifit him, also look into one of these....http://www.collargirl.com/how_martingale_work.htm when you don't have your prong on, or if you are absolutely uncomfortable using it. That way he can't slip his collar.

LOL ohhh Red.... what a ham!

Ditto the purse idea! Lexus is well behaved in the pet store, but I still don't take her in without her prong on and all my money and credit cards I need are in my pocket! I don't even try the purse thing anymore. Like I said she is well behaved, but she is still curious and wanting to pull me everywhere so she can smell everything. A verbal repremand gets her back in order, but she is so excited being there, it doesn't last long. I'd rather let her tag herself once with a prong collar, then have to be repeatedly pulling her nylon collar to get her attention.

I don't know why, but my PSplus has the parakeets at floor level, Lexus thinks it is doggie tv I'm surprised a few of them haven't dropped dead off their perches yet
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 12:40 PM
 
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I work in a Petsmart.. In the grooming salon, but I see people bring their dogs in all the time who are like this. I think it's one of the only places dogs are forgiven so easily for going nuts no matter how well trained they may be. Don't feel bad, you definitely aren't the only one! It's just too much for them to take lol.
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 01:09 PM
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You were right when you said you shouldn't have taken him into the store once you saw the behaviour and the pulling in the parking lot. As was suggested, work him outside the store, no going in at all until he can behave nicely.

He got rewarded with a trip to where he wanted to go for bad behaviour. You want to make sure that doesn't happen again. It may mean several trips to the parking lot where he can not go in the store. It's like what we do in agility when the dog breaks the start line stay. Oops, now you don't get to run the course.

My other thought is that he may have been particularly antsy because he had to pee. I know I can't always listen and concentrate when I have to pee! ;-)
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post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 01:33 PM
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This post made me feel alot better. Its a lot like that 6 year old kid at wal-mart waiting in line with mom screaming bloody murder for a toy or candy bar.
Its tough. I feel like me any my dobes are coming along so well at home and in training sessions then you take them out in public and they are acting like maniacs. Red is a good dog, and your a good trainer...just keep up what your doing and learn from this experience.

Remember my story from Petsmart and Jake started marking in the cat toy aisle???? THAT WAS EMBARASSING!!! Wont take him back until his "boys" are removed.

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post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus View Post
I do agree that using a pinch collar would benifit him, also look into one of these....http://www.collargirl.com/how_martingale_work.htm when you don't have your prong on, or if you are absolutely uncomfortable using it. That way he can't slip his collar.
oh yeah, I've seen those before. Pretty nifty! Thanks for the link, Lexus!

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Originally Posted by michelle87 View Post
I work in a Petsmart.. In the grooming salon, but I see people bring their dogs in all the time who are like this. I think it's one of the only places dogs are forgiven so easily for going nuts no matter how well trained they may be. Don't feel bad, you definitely aren't the only one! It's just too much for them to take lol.
Thanks michelle, at least I'm not the only (and hopefully not the worst). This made me feel better!

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Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
You were right when you said you shouldn't have taken him into the store once you saw the behaviour and the pulling in the parking lot. As was suggested, work him outside the store, no going in at all until he can behave nicely.

He got rewarded with a trip to where he wanted to go for bad behaviour. You want to make sure that doesn't happen again. It may mean several trips to the parking lot where he can not go in the store. It's like what we do in agility when the dog breaks the start line stay. Oops, now you don't get to run the course.

My other thought is that he may have been particularly antsy because he had to pee. I know I can't always listen and concentrate when I have to pee! ;-)
True, I never thought about the peeing thing making him antsy, though that would only account for SOME of his crazy behavior, not all of it. I know I shouldn't have take him in at all once I saw what he was acting like, but you know, hindsight's always 20/20 I'll definitely be working with him outside the stores a lot more until he can act appropriately and listen before we go inside. I just have to be tougher with him, that's all. If a kid was acting like that in a store, I would be appalled that the parents allowed that kind of behavior and now I'm that mom! Never again I tell you!

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This post made me feel alot better. Its a lot like that 6 year old kid at wal-mart waiting in line with mom screaming bloody murder for a toy or candy bar.
Its tough. I feel like me any my dobes are coming along so well at home and in training sessions then you take them out in public and they are acting like maniacs. Red is a good dog, and your a good trainer...just keep up what your doing and learn from this experience.

Remember my story from Petsmart and Jake started marking in the cat toy aisle???? THAT WAS EMBARASSING!!! Wont take him back until his "boys" are removed.
I'm glad people can relate to this incident and thank you for the compliment. I try really hard to train him properly - and it doesn't help that hubby NEVER works with him, so I'm doing all the hard work. But I just need to get on with it and be the calm, assertive leader Red needs.


I've just got home from work, and dug out the prong collar. I'll re-fit him with it today and try to work off some excess energy and then maybe we can get over to the store before it gets dark... oh there's never enough hours in a day!



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post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:46 PM
 
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This totally made me laugh - sorry, and thank you as well, for making me feel better about my puppy!

We're at Petsmart all the time and I'd say most of the other dogs that are in the store are, let's just say, not on their best behavior, so you are so not alone!

We've taken Elli to Petsmart about twice a week ever since we got her (and we now do our obedience training there), and we'll take her occasionally to the other local petstores, too, so she does really well in them now (knock on wood).

Red is soooo smart, I'm sure he'll overcome this in no time! Good luck on today's outing!
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post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Red is soooo smart, I'm sure he'll overcome this in no time! Good luck on today's outing!
Thank you sooo much, Bluefly! :biggrin55 I really needed the vote of confidence. It's so nice to hear everyone say such nice things about Red - he really is a great puppy... but he was bound to have one of those days sooner or later.


UPDATE!

Well, I got the prong collar out, removed all the little plastic tips and fitted it properly right up at the top of his neck behind his ears, and with the rings on the right side of his neck. We went for a short walk to practice with it, and I saw a big difference in the pulling already - which stumped me because it didn't faze him before when I used it for walks... but whatever, at least it works now!

Before going back to the scene of the crime, I packed up a bag of hot dog bits (I didn't give him dinner before we left so he would be nice and hungry for treats), and put a $5 in my pocket to so I didn't have to carry my purse into the store with me. I put the bag of treats in my sweatshirt pocket and I was good to go, with both hands to spare!

We get to the pet store and get out of the car and he starts to make a bee-line to the door, which I corrected. He got the hint pretty quickly that this wasn't going to be a repeat of 2 days ago. We calmly walked through the parking lot up to the sidewalk where we did about 5 minutes of obedience and focus work until he calmed down and wasn't in "super-stimulation" mode anymore. Then we went inside.

By now, he had full respect for the prong collar. He didn't pull me like last time. Just inside the door, we did some more obedience work. Once he was calm and focused again, we went down the stuffie aisle (remember where he was taking them off the shelf and shaking them before!) but he wasn't allowed to touch anything on the shelves, and a quick collar pop and verbal warning did the trick nicely. He started ignoring all the fun toys right in front of his face. Next, the treat aisle with all the open bins of rawhides - he made a couple attempts to stick his face in the bins, but a small correction was all he needed. I used reddobe's idea and plucked a bag of yummy treats off the shelf for added interest, which worked like a charm.

We kept stopping and doing commands every few yards or so. One person even commented, "I need you to come to my house to train my dogs!" :biggrin55 That gave me a big confidence boost! Another person said, "wow, those collars really work, don't they?" and I answered, "You have NO idea!" LOL

After some more obedience work, and a conversation with a couple strangers in which I made Red sit and accept treats nicely from them, I made Red sit and stay while I paid, and that was that! :biggrin55

Thank you guys SO much for all the support and great advice! If it wasn't for you, I probably just wouldn't have taken him back there. I am so grateful to know you all and Red and I have certainly had a much better life so far because of you. THANK YOU!!!



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post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 05:52 PM
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So glad that everything went well! Red is lucky to have such a dedicated owner
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post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 06:47 PM
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I like the prong collars.
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post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:31 PM
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I have heard a lot of opposition to prong collars (other breeds) but they are really an excellent training tool when used properly.
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post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:53 PM
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i have had the same issue with my 5month old but have broke him out of it thanks to a tripple crown collar go to www.aboutdogtraining.com you find all you need and is harmless as to a choker and more effective than a gentle leader!
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post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
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I suspect you are far from being alone on that experience! Myself included. lol.


PetSmart is just sensory overload for puppies!

Gotta agree with the above, we all think we have a well behaved dog until....LOL!! Things will get better.

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post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 08:31 PM
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Burns, I'm so glad that visit #2 went so much better - I know you have to be feeling much better also!

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post #41 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:14 PM
 
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That's awesome, Burns! I'm glad things went so well this time - it's like night and day from the last visit!
Red's so smart - you and Red are my inspiration for training Elli! Keep up the great work with him and can't wait to see your next video of him in Petsmart!
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post #42 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:15 PM
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Good Job Burns!!!
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post #43 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys so much! :biggrin55 Today totally made up for what happened at the store before!

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That's awesome, Burns! I'm glad things went so well this time - it's like night and day from the last visit!
Red's so smart - you and Red are my inspiration for training Elli! Keep up the great work with him and can't wait to see your next video of him in Petsmart!
Aw thanks, Bluefly That means a lot. Hopefully that security tape from the other day doesn't find its way on the internet, lol



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post #44 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:58 PM
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WTG Burns, oh and Red too! Good Boy Red
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post #45 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 05:19 AM
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Told you that pinch it the BEST!!!!

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post #46 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-15-2007, 03:56 PM
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I work at Petsmart, and let me tell you....your guy peeing in the line was nothing. I've had dogs with explosive diarrhea, who's owners rush out the door as soon as it happens. That makes me hopping mad for sure!

My guy will mark in Petsmart if I'm not 100% attentive. I just make a conscious effort to keep him away from the end caps and we do fine.

A couple weeks ago I saw a woman being dragged all over the store by her chocolate lab. Poor thing was in heels and had no control whatsoever. The dog went where he wanted to go, and she was just along for the ride. Of all things to buy, she brought a harness to my line. A harness! Someone actually told her that a harness would stop the pulling.

The dog was already wearing a choker, with obviously no effect. She refused a prong collar, despite my assuring her that not only is it more effective, but more humane. She ended up buying a Premier Easy Walk harness (the one with the ring on the chest). I haven't seen her since, so I hope that's working out for her. I still think she could have used some training classes, but she wasn't interested in that either.

Glad to see your guy was better the second time around! I'm still working on that with Poseidon. He's great inside the store other than howling at other dogs (haven't managed to break that behavior yet, and at 11 years old not holding out too much hope). His problem is that when we leave he wants to pull me. We do a lot of stopping and abrupt turns until he remembers his manners. I've never had to use a training collar on him yet.

We're about to head over there in a little bit to work on distractions some more and sign him up for a class. I'm hoping that more socialization will cut out some of the howling (aka Siberian Death Screams). If not, at least he'll serve as a great distraction for the other dogs in the class.

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"In one of the stars I shall be living. In one of them I shall be laughing. And so it will be as if all the stars were laughing, when you look at the sky at night . . . You--only you--will have stars that can laugh!"

Forever missing Poseidon, my best boy. 1993 - December 19, 2010
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