300 dollar question - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Doberman Related Chat If your post does not fit into any other category post here.

 29Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
Princess Bella
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 101
Location: Chatsworth, California
Dogs Name: Bella; Loki
Titles: The 1 in a Million Really Red Dobie Princess, The natural American Fawn Dobie BOY
Dogs Age: Bella 8. Loki 1
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit princess bella's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 336 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 2
                     
300 dollar question

Hi,
Loki's neuter time is coming up. There are 2 reputable low cost neuter clinics within 15 miles.
Regular vet charges 475 including some pre-testing blood work. The clinics charge 160-190.

Just asking which do most people choose? We are not rich, but not completely strapped either. Insurance won't cover it.

We love our vet but also like supporting orgs that try to limit the euthanasia of unwanted animals.

BTW Loki is looking really great, his fur is healthy He does pull a lot when excited....
Thanks for your input!
Loki Pb and Me
princess bella is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to princess bella For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-12-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 12:53 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,666
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 85,126
Thanked 67,944 Times in 20,354 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Do the low-cost clinics do any bloodwork? Do you know his vWD status, either through a genetic test or his parents' vWD status?
mhebner, ECIN, LadyDi and 1 others like this.
melbrod is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-12-2020), LadyDi (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 01:35 PM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,727
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,366
Thanked 6,274 Times in 2,400 Posts
Images: 14
                     
I always tell ppl to use the low cost clinics. It's where we take our rescues and I've yet to hear of or see a problem. They are good at what they do because that's basically all they do. I know someone who spayed her girl with a repro. vet and they did it incorrectly and she bled out and I think died from an infection in the blood?
mhebner likes this.
Gretchen_Red is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Gretchen_Red For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-12-2020), CRDobe (08-12-2020), ECIN (08-12-2020), LadyDi (08-12-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 01:39 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,574
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 8; Lily 6; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 40,418
Thanked 33,026 Times in 10,807 Posts
                     
Ouch. Glad I don't live in a big city. My vet charges about $100 for a spay, with bloodwork running another $70 or so.

In my opinion, if he's healthy, not vWD affected, and doesn't have retained testicles (depending on where it's hiding, anyway), I'd go for the lower cost clinic.
mhebner and LadyDi like this.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
ADP-PrCH Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L2 (GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
S-ADP-PrCH CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L2(GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-12-2020), LadyDi (08-12-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 03:02 PM
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 8,597
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & EG -- RIP Dobie , Chi , Kasia & Ali girl
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 5 & 3 Months
Gallery Pics: 429
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 27,383
Thanked 32,919 Times in 8,224 Posts
Images: 429
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
I feel it's my duty to speak up for my good buddy Loki !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It seems to me that everybody that has replied are -- Well -- Women ! AND all said to go the cheap route !!!!

Now like I said - I'm looking out for Loki's best interest here and being a guy - I Think you gals need to be more sensitive to Loki !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Were not talking chowed hash here !!

I think that poor Loki should get the 5 star treatment on his up coming operation !

Remember Loki -- You've got a friend !

And ole Doc will do what I can do for my friend
ECIN is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
DobieGang (08-13-2020), LadyDi (08-12-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 03:07 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,670
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 46,611
Thanked 20,247 Times in 5,835 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
This is a routine procedure for vets BUT that is quite a difference in price.
When Hoss had this procedure what raised the price was anesthesia (calculated by the dogs weight) wondering if that lower price presented to you encompassed the entire procedure including anesthesia.
Anyway my regular vet is my go to as Hoss is familiar with her and the clinic.
But that is quite a price difference for sure......I can understand it would be tempting due to the savings.
Good luck.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 03:14 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,574
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 8; Lily 6; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 40,418
Thanked 33,026 Times in 10,807 Posts
                     
There is a lot to be said for speed and practice, though. I used to work at a small town, low cost clinic run by a vet who also had a hospital in the nearby city. Sometimes we would do nearly as many spays and neuters in a day as he did an entire week at the big hospital. And that was on top of seeing patients in the three hours he was there, four days a week.
Gretchen_Red likes this.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
ADP-PrCH Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L2 (GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
S-ADP-PrCH CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L2(GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-12-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 03:21 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,670
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 46,611
Thanked 20,247 Times in 5,835 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
I feel it's my duty to speak up for my good buddy Loki !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It seems to me that everybody that has replied are -- Well -- Women ! AND all said to go the cheap route !!!!

Now like I said - I'm looking out for Loki's best interest here and being a guy - I Think you gals need to be more sensitive to Loki !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Were not talking chowed hash here !!

I think that poor Loki should get the 5 star treatment on his up coming operation !

Remember Loki -- You've got a friend !

And ole Doc will do what I can do for my friend

I just knew ECIN would be commenting on this thread !!!
Loki Doc is looking out for you !!!
Love you Loki.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-12-2020), ECIN (08-12-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 04:16 PM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,727
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,366
Thanked 6,274 Times in 2,400 Posts
Images: 14
                     
There isn't really a difference for the dog whether it's a regular old vet or a lower cost clinic that specializes in spay/neuter.

May I ask why you are neutering him at all? I love my intact male and I don't think I'll ever have one neutered again unless it's for health reasons.
Gretchen_Red is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gretchen_Red For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 07:03 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,043
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,887
Thanked 64,787 Times in 17,310 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
There is actually a difference between the low cost clinics and your regular vet.

While there isn't anything wrong with low-cost clinics, they don't do the same types of pre-surgery screening and work-ups that your normal vet will do, and they don't have the same kind of post-surgery monitoring. I can say this with confidence, as I have friends who work as staff in those clinics. They provide a great service for those that need them, and I don't hesitate to recommend them for those that truly can't afford to go to their regular vet. However, I wouldn't use one purely out of the desire to save money on the cost of surgery when I could afford to go to my regular vet. There's a reason it costs more to do a full surgery at your regular vet, and I would personally chose that level of care every single time.

Edited to add - this is a very good description of the common differences between surgery at your regular vet verses a low cost clinic. Please take time to read it: https://drandyroark.com/the-difference/
LadyDi and princess bella like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 NW3-C NW3-E RATI SOG DOG TKN SIN SEN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall

Last edited by MeadowCat; 08-12-2020 at 07:07 PM.
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-12-2020), brw1982 (08-13-2020), dobegal (08-13-2020), Dobe_Mom (08-13-2020), ECIN (08-13-2020), ellierose (08-13-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-12-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-12-2020, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
Princess Bella
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 101
Location: Chatsworth, California
Dogs Name: Bella; Loki
Titles: The 1 in a Million Really Red Dobie Princess, The natural American Fawn Dobie BOY
Dogs Age: Bella 8. Loki 1
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit princess bella's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 336 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Wow>> thanks everybody for your input! I did read that article, Meadow cat, and will get my husband to read it and this thread too. Ecin especially, I hear you<>! All the cost are calculated by his weight which is 90 lbs. I think I will call and to ask specifically what is provided by each option. I was thinking that the blood work testing done at the vet could become a sort of a "baseline" of information on Loki.

Are all untested male 1.5 year old Dobies considered high risk then??? Loki is untested, his parents are unknown and his testes are well descended.

We are neutering him , well just to be reasonable , to insure he doesn't ever pass on his likely (bad) byb genes , and hopefully to protect our other dog Bella from his pandering sexist instincts , such as humping and other semi aggressive un-knightly behaviors , and to cut back on the piss- marking. Not that she would put up with any of that bs. but she is 20 lbs smaller!
mhebner likes this.

Last edited by princess bella; 08-12-2020 at 11:58 PM.
princess bella is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to princess bella For This Useful Post:
dobegal (08-13-2020), ECIN (08-13-2020), ellierose (08-13-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-19-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 12:57 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,574
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 8; Lily 6; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 40,418
Thanked 33,026 Times in 10,807 Posts
                     
I would do a vWD test through a company like VetGen, since it's a good idea to know their status anyway.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
ADP-PrCH Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L2 (GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
S-ADP-PrCH CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L2(GC) GPS-SST OD-WD4
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-13-2020), ECIN (08-13-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), MeadowCat (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 07:45 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,043
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,887
Thanked 64,787 Times in 17,310 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Make sure you do the genetic test for vWD, like Melbrod said - that's a swab you send in, NOT a blood test at your vet. That's a minimum requirement you need to know for surgeries on Dobermans, IMO.

I always run the recommended bloodwork on all my animals (cats and dogs) prior to surgery. There are things that can come up that can really affect the safety of surgery.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 NW3-C NW3-E RATI SOG DOG TKN SIN SEN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-13-2020), dobegal (08-19-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-19-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 08:24 AM
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 8,597
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & EG -- RIP Dobie , Chi , Kasia & Ali girl
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 5 & 3 Months
Gallery Pics: 429
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 27,383
Thanked 32,919 Times in 8,224 Posts
Images: 429
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Just for some idea for you , I was at our vets yesterday and they asked about the vWD test on little girl - she had it already , but they said that test cost 225 dollars and like the others has said -- A must have
ECIN is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
dobegal (08-13-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 09:58 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,666
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 85,126
Thanked 67,944 Times in 20,354 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
A test from vetgen for presence of the vWD disease only costs about $75. There are other places to get one; they slip my mind at the moment. You should be able to get a test done for under $100, at any rate.

It is a simple swab test—the lab sends you a kit; you rub the dog's gums with the provided swab and mail it back. They do the testing and send you the results.

It is possible that the test your vet's office was talking about was an elisa blood test, which actually just measures how much vWD clotting factor is in the dog's blood on the day of the test. A dog's vWD factor level will vary from day to day for a number of reasons, and that test not considered accurate enough to tell you the full vWD status of the dog (clear, carrier, affected). It can tell you if your dog will need special care for any surgery done within a few weeks of the test, and if your dog is an affected vWD dog, his factor will likely be low enough that the test will show that.

Vets may do a bleeding time on the day of a surgery, which involves a simple controlled nick of the dog's gums and a measurement of how long it takes for his blood to clot. This has the advantage of showing if there is ANY deficiency in the dog's clotting mechanism (there can be other causes for a prolonged bleeding time), but again, it will not tell you the dog's genetic vWD status, and whether the dog will need special handling in any future surgery.

Or perhaps your vet was talking about a full genetic panel of some sort, which could tell you other things about the dog's genetic makeup—that could possibly give you an idea about diseases which your particular dog could develop. But most of the tests on that kind of panel are not particularly needed for a dobe (they test for things which are problems in other breeds, for example), and even the ones which have some possible applicability (DCM 1 and 2) aren't really considered helpful enough that it is worth getting them done if you aren't planning on breeding the dog, IMO.

Or the vet may have been including other blood tests—a chemistry panel, for example. And adding in his own costs for sample collection/blood draw and specimen handling? At any rate, there is no reason you should have to pay that much for a simple vWD genetic test, and actually no reason you have to involve a vet at all if all you need is that test.
dobebug and mhebner like this.

Last edited by melbrod; 08-13-2020 at 10:14 AM.
melbrod is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
dobebug (08-13-2020), dobegal (08-13-2020), MeadowCat (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 11:32 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,382

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 15,718
Thanked 30,967 Times in 7,556 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
There is actually a difference between the low cost clinics and your regular vet.

While there isn't anything wrong with low-cost clinics, they don't do the same types of pre-surgery screening and work-ups that your normal vet will do, and they don't have the same kind of post-surgery monitoring. I can say this with confidence, as I have friends who work as staff in those clinics. They provide a great service for those that need them, and I don't hesitate to recommend them for those that truly can't afford to go to their regular vet. However, I wouldn't use one purely out of the desire to save money on the cost of surgery when I could afford to go to my regular vet. There's a reason it costs more to do a full surgery at your regular vet, and I would personally chose that level of care every single time.

Edited to add - this is a very good description of the common differences between surgery at your regular vet verses a low cost clinic. Please take time to read it: https://drandyroark.com/the-difference/
Boy, oh boy--it'd be nice if every vet clinic--low cost or regular neighborhood vet or high profile specialty clinic--any of them that do surgeries had a hand out to go along with any estimate of cost for a surgical procedure, especially spays and neuters. That link should be a must read--excellent information. Thanks MeadowCat for including it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by princess bella View Post
Wow>> thanks everybody for your input! I did read that article, Meadow cat, and will get my husband to read it and this thread too. Ecin especially, I hear you<>! All the cost are calculated by his weight which is 90 lbs. I think I will call and to ask specifically what is provided by each option. I was thinking that the blood work testing done at the vet could become a sort of a "baseline" of information on Loki.

Are all untested male 1.5 year old Dobies considered high risk then??? Loki is untested, his parents are unknown and his testes are well descended.

We are neutering him , well just to be reasonable , to insure he doesn't ever pass on his likely (bad) byb genes , and hopefully to protect our other dog Bella from his pandering sexist instincts , such as humping and other semi aggressive un-knightly behaviors , and to cut back on the piss- marking. Not that she would put up with any of that bs. but she is 20 lbs smaller!
Princess Bella--I do want to add something here when it comes to reasons for neutering males. Some of the things you mention as reasons for neutering aren't really solved by doing that. Yes, it will keep your Loki from breeding a bitch and producing another litter of puppies with at least 1/2 unknown problems since he was a 'found' dog. But humping, sniffing and definitely marking are at least as much training issues as not.

I start out with every puppy as a potential show prospect and they are left intact (in fact the only reason I neuter my males is because of a medical issue that would indicate it was an appropriate choice. So many of my males have remained intact all of their lives--and, none of them mark in the house (I don't really care if they do so outside, they don't hump other dogs except on the rare occasion that they are being bred to an in season bitch --on purpose--and sniffing is dog behavior--if they stop when I tell them to stop that's good enough for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
I would do a vWD test through a company like VetGen, since it's a good idea to know their status anyway.
YES! And I do test for vWD and I do it early if I don't know what the status is because of parentage. Vet Gen is the first of the genetic test offerers and are still the most expensive. Less expensive are the gene testing companies like Gen Sol (which is likely the most inexpensive right now) There is also EMBARK--which for about $200 does a test which covers not only vWD but all other gene driven Doberman issues (and those of other breeds as well--but if you are wanting ALL available gene tests for Dobermans--the EMBARK test is a bargain.

What is NOT a bargain is the blood test offered by the average vet clinic--it is an Elisa assay--and is measuring ONLY vWD factor in the blood--and only for the moment that the blood was drawn and is affected by so many outside factors and the fact it usually takes a couple of days to come back because the test is read by an outside lab--it may not reflect much of what is really going on at the time of surgery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Make sure you do the genetic test for vWD, like Melbrod said - that's a swab you send in, NOT a blood test at your vet. That's a minimum requirement you need to know for surgeries on Dobermans, IMO.

I always run the recommended bloodwork on all my animals (cats and dogs) prior to surgery. There are things that can come up that can really affect the safety of surgery.
I usually do a full blood panel on presurgery dogs but that does not include the very expensive Elisa assay which measures only vWD factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Just for some idea for you , I was at our vets yesterday and they asked about the vWD test on little girl - she had it already , but they said that test cost 225 dollars and like the others has said -- A must have
ECIN--I think your little girl had the EMBARK test (the whole litter was tested as I recall? The test your vet quoted you was not (I'd bet) a genetic test but the Elisa assay--for vWD factor.

There are very few times that I would ever have my regular vet do an Elisa assay--if I thought there was some reason that the dog might have low vWD factor--I'd actually do that AND I'd have the mucosel bleeding test (they nick the mucous membrane and time the length of time it takes to stop bleeding--and that would be done immediately before the surgery.

But I have not had any vWD positive dogs nor have I had any dogs who have been scheduled for long complicated surgeries (usually things like various orthopedic surgeries) where even a carrier or clear dog can (but rarely do) run out of sufficient vWD fact to allow proper clotting.)

And that's entirely enough about what tests I'd have done and since I work for a vet clinic and have for many years now that's where I have any and all surgeries done.

dobebug
LadyDi likes this.
dobebug is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-13-2020), MeadowCat (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-13-2020), VZ-Doberman (08-19-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
Princess Bella
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 101
Location: Chatsworth, California
Dogs Name: Bella; Loki
Titles: The 1 in a Million Really Red Dobie Princess, The natural American Fawn Dobie BOY
Dogs Age: Bella 8. Loki 1
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit princess bella's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 336 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Would Loki if neutered be less likely to get in a fight with another dog/ male? He is very dog reactive and I know it is a ( slow but steady exposure) training issue, for the most part. This could only happen if the other dog were off leash.

He is pretty crazy about marking. He even went under a rose bush or a cactus ( on leash). He was a little frantic because of a dog across the street and I was focused on that too...and he ended up with thorns stuck in his ears and looking like a Beirut survivor. We are working on leash manners especially in general and every time we are out. He is food crazy, so that helps a little. We are taking them to a dog friendly cabin in Idyllwild (small mountain resort town) for 3 nights next week and will maybe try an out door restaurant. I'm sincerely hoping that the fencing is very high and solid like in the photo and that there are no local dogs roaming around off leash, but its a gamble.
LadyDi likes this.

Last edited by princess bella; 08-13-2020 at 12:50 PM.
princess bella is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to princess bella For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 01:00 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,043
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,887
Thanked 64,787 Times in 17,310 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess bella View Post
Would Loki if neutered be less likely to get in a fight with another dog/ male? He is very dog reactive and I know it is a ( slow but steady exposure) training issue, for the most part. This could only happen if the other dog were off leash.
Neutering is very unlikely to have any effect on his dog reactivity. That's both an issue of temperament (fear/anxiety) and same-sex aggression, neither of which is at all affected by neutering.
dobebug and LadyDi like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 NW3-C NW3-E RATI SOG DOG TKN SIN SEN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
dobebug (08-14-2020), dobegal (08-19-2020), LadyDi (08-13-2020), melbrod (08-13-2020), Rosemary (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 02:13 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,670
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 46,611
Thanked 20,247 Times in 5,835 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess bella View Post
Would Loki if neutered be less likely to get in a fight with another dog/ male? He is very dog reactive and I know it is a ( slow but steady exposure) training issue, for the most part. This could only happen if the other dog were off leash.

He is pretty crazy about marking. He even went under a rose bush or a cactus ( on leash). He was a little frantic because of a dog across the street and I was focused on that too...and he ended up with thorns stuck in his ears and looking like a Beirut survivor. We are working on leash manners especially in general and every time we are out. He is food crazy, so that helps a little. We are taking them to a dog friendly cabin in Idyllwild (small mountain resort town) for 3 nights next week and will maybe try an out door restaurant. I'm sincerely hoping that the fencing is very high and solid like in the photo and that there are no local dogs roaming around off leash, but its a gamble.
Your funny...LMAO on the Beirut comment.
My previous Doberman Mafia.
That dog chased anything with wheels and took me surfing so many times so I understand those wild rides.
You made me laugh so hard on this post. Thank you.
mhebner and princess bella like this.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
melbrod (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 09:18 PM
Lil Dog
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 52
Location: Greater NYC Metropolitan Area
Dogs Name: Hudson (Black & Rust) Cooper (Red & Rust)
Dogs Age: 10/23/2016
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit DobieGang's Gallery
Thanks: 19
Thanked 176 Times in 49 Posts
             
300 dollar question

Im with ECIN on this one and speak as a male too. So far I’ve refused to neuter unless absolutely necessary for his health.

I always say to my fiance and others.....I wouldnt neuter my own child, the same goes for my two dobie boys.

Again if he needs it done, please look into the best care you can provide him. 200 bucks for a procedure doesnt even seem like a lot considering my fiance and I spend more than that a month on groceries.

Loki, if your listening be on your best behavior! Hopefully you wont have to go through this! I’m trying my best for you buddy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LadyDi likes this.

Last edited by DobieGang; 08-13-2020 at 09:40 PM.
DobieGang is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DobieGang For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-14-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
Princess Bella
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 101
Location: Chatsworth, California
Dogs Name: Bella; Loki
Titles: The 1 in a Million Really Red Dobie Princess, The natural American Fawn Dobie BOY
Dogs Age: Bella 8. Loki 1
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit princess bella's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 336 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Just asking, sorry for my incompetence. Just to clarify.....What is vWD and Why should I know if he has it.
LadyDi likes this.
princess bella is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to princess bella For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-14-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-13-2020, 11:22 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,666
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 85,126
Thanked 67,944 Times in 20,354 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
This website gives some of the basics:

https://dogtime.com/dog-health/59753...ses-treatments


vWD is a bleeding disorder. The affected dog's blood will take longer to clot than is normal. There are a few different types of vWD found in dogs; the kind found in dobermans is mild.

The condition is genetically caused—in general, in order for the dog to have symptoms, he needs to have inherited a mutant gene from each parent. A genetic test, like the one vetgen offers, will test for the mutant gene and tell you whether the dog is clear (no mutant gene), a carrier (one normal gene, one mutant gene) or affected (two mutant genes.) If the dog is a carrier, typically he will not have a bleeding problem. Even if he is genetically affected with two mutant genes, he may not seem to bleed excessively or spontaneously under ordinary conditions, and you may not realize he has a problem.

But an affected dog may have prolonged bleeding during surgery, so before any surgery, if his vWD status is unknown, a dobe should have some kind of testing to be sure his clotting ability is normal. Because a dog may need to go into surgery on an emergency basis, it is very useful if you know whether he is a genetically affected dog, so the vet can take extra precautions during the surgery. For routine surgeries like a neuter or spay of a vWD affected dog, the vet should ensure that he has supplies on hand that will help if the dog has problems during surgery.
dobebug, ECIN, LadyDi and 1 others like this.

Last edited by melbrod; 08-14-2020 at 10:03 AM.
melbrod is online now  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
dobebug (08-14-2020), LadyDi (08-14-2020), MeadowCat (08-14-2020), Rosemary (08-13-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2020, 07:45 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,043
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,887
Thanked 64,787 Times in 17,310 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Here's a short overview of the major health issues in Dobermans you should be aware of:

https://dpca.org/breed/health/


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 NW3-C NW3-E RATI SOG DOG TKN SIN SEN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-14-2020), melbrod (08-14-2020), yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-19-2020, 12:37 PM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Fallbrook CA
Dogs Name: Baron Von Hebner
Dogs Age: 4
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit mhebner's Gallery
Thanks: 6
Thanked 39 Times in 23 Posts
Images: 1
     
I'm probably going to get a lot of flack here because of what I believe. Neutering is actually a very simple procedure and I believe the low cost clinics are the way to go. That said, I would definitely do the vWD test first. The removal of his testicles will definitely change his behavior because of lowering his testosterone level. Because of the possibility of him accidentally breeding a bitch somewhere in his lifetime I think it's wise to neuter him. Darn, my horse vet just lays my dogs out on a table or the tailgate of his truck and does the surgery. I've NEVER had an issue
bigblackdog likes this.
mhebner is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mhebner For This Useful Post:
yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-21-2020, 11:08 AM
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit RLM37's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Am new to DT and not seeing your boy’s age but have become very negative about early spay and neuter. If he is not at least a year old I would read up on the subject first. The UC Davis vet school study a few years back linked early spay and neuter to several health issues in larger dogs-bone and joint and ligament and I seem to recall others as well. After losing two male Dobes (in succession and unrelated but both having been neutered when a few months old and one also required ligament surgery) to bone cancer, our new girl, Tasha, will not be spayed until she is about 18 months old. She will have her normal hormones until she is grown.
RLM37 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RLM37 For This Useful Post:
yuki_cos (09-22-2020)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome