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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2020, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Interim Between crop and posting

Hi. I’m new to the Doberman world specifically as it relates to cropping and posting ears. Can anyone tell me if there is an issue long term with ears standing if ears are not posted soon after cropping? The breeder I am working with had the ears cropped at 9 1/2 weeks and did not use cupping method. The breeder waits 10 days then removes stitches and then lets ears flop until there are no sign of scabs and ears are thoroughly healed. With that said it has been 4 1/2 weeks and posting will begin later this week. Will there be an issue. I read that if ears are not posted by 12 weeks that cartilage hardens and makes it less likely ears will stand. Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2020, 05:11 PM
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That method--works fine.

If you go back far enough it used to be the common way to deal with newly cropped ears. Crop the puppy between 7 and 12 weeks--not cropping by 12 weeks may cause difficulty in getting ears to stand. Sometimes they will and sometimes they have developed creases etc that are hard to remove with posting.

Once the puppy was cropped the ears were allowed to just hang loose or could be taped (avoiding the cropped edge) across the head) until the sutures were removed. Sutures were usually removed between 10 and 14 days. And yes, they the ears were allowed to hang until all scabs, raw spots etc were completely and entirely healed.

The cartilage doesn't harden fast enough to be a consirable concern. It's something that takes place over months. Not days.

If the breeder had the ears cropped at 9.5 weeks the method that is being used is fine.

Essentially the time frames are 1)crop the puppy. 2)remove sutures between 10 and 14 days and allow the ears to hang or tape them across the top of the head 3) when the ears are completely healed--no scabs or raw spots start posting--that is usually about two weeks after the suture remove. So you would start posting at roughly 4 weeks (and that's a more or less--every puppy is a little different) post cropping.

What you read didn't really explain what is happening with ears post 12 weeks. If you look at uncropped puppies (Dobes, Danes, Boxers etc) their ears can and do develop creases that cause ears to rise at odd positions--sometimes it's flying nun look but those creases (not really hardened cartilage) are often really hard to get out with posting and the longer ears remain uncropped the more difficult it can be.

I know a couple cases where breeders didn't crop puppies at their normal 7 or 8 weeks because one or more of the litter was sick or very small compared to the rest of the puppies--and much much later--6 months or more--the uncropped puppy was looking very promising so they were cropped and posted and did successfully stand.

So that 12 week mark isn't carved in stone.

Does this help?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2020, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much!!! This helps enormously. As I said I am very new to the Doberman seen and I just want to do everything exactly the way it should be done. I have been doing as much research as possible. I really appreciate you responding. Thank you again and stay well.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 05:55 AM
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Welcome to our forum and stay in touch.
Would love some pics of your new pup.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 07:46 AM
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Just post, don't fret. We have some great tutorials here or maybe your breeder can help.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you.... great to be a part of the community. I will definitely stay in touch as I am sure I will have questions.

With that may I ask what food you use? I’ve read that a raw diet is best but I have also read that breeders especially show breeders like the Purina Pro Plan. I thought of using the Purina but subsidizing with some organ meat and vegetables.

Any thoughts?
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 02:20 PM
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Valexitch,

I don't feed raw--for a couple of reasons. I have never had the facilities (which would include at least one good sized freezer) and because I have shown all my dogs in Conformation and later in various performance venues and raw feeding is kind of a pain if you aren't at home when feeding raw. I know it can be done and I know people who do it but my dogs are all basically fed kibble.

I like Purina ProPlan and my go to food for many years has been their Salmon and Rice or the Chicken and Rice. I no longer try to feed lamb of any sort--none of my dogs has done well on it and I see no point in trying it after three failures.

I do feed other things than just the kibble. My dogs from puppyhgod on get yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs and bits and pieces of an assortment of vegetables and fruits if they are around when I'm cooking.

They get a tablespoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese with breakfast and they get an egg (hardboiled because they have to share them with me and I like egg salad sandwiches). And if I've found a good deal on ground turkey or beef--I'll cook it lightly to a sloppy Joe consistency with a little water--freeze most of it except one container that I refrigerate and add a spoonful or two to their dinners along with the egg.

So they will all eat practically any fruit except for citrus (I had one dog that liked lemons--(I know, it amazed me too). But apples, pears, peaches, necteriines, apricot and vegetables--celery, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, cabbage etc. I don't feed onions or garlic. You can look up why not on the internet.

As far as organ meat goes--be careful of what you are thinking of as organ meat. If you feed very much liver (which is an organ meat) it'll provide you with a dog with a nice case of diarrhea--a little goes a long way. But stuff like heart, gizzards and I can't think of it--maybe kidney are actually not organ but muscle. I make treats and bait (for training and conformation showing) from liver. But I buy chicken gizzards and heart from time to time, freeze and feed frozen as treats at home. I also buy small frozen fish (smelt is the one I find most often) sardines occasionally and give those frozen as a treat.

I'm sure some of the other posters can elaborate on stuff that they feed beside the kibble (oh yeah, berries of any kind--and I have a friend who has an extensive garden and her dogs always teach my dogs how to pick only the ripre berries. I only grow tomatoes and I think it's the squirrels that teach my dogs to pick tomatoes)

Again, I hope this helps some.

dobebug

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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This is all great stuff. Thank you. You are right I was considering the heart meat as organ meat. I will definitely take note of the liver. I was planning on putting the meat and veggies in food processor and then freezing small portions to subsidize the kibble food. Great idea for the treats.

I am just so surprised that everyone leans towards the purina versus foods like Origen or the like which is just so much more expensive. Really good to know!!

I am learning a lot from you!! Thank you for all of your help . Greatly appreciated.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 09:58 PM
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Every dog is an individual. The key to picking a good food is to find one that keeps your dog energetic, his skin and coat healthy, his digestive system in good shape. On top of that the food should be coming from companies who have a long history of testing their foods and conducting studies to determine what a dog's nutritional requirements actually are--who are not just going with what seems like it *might* or *should* work, in part based on how people think their dog should be fed.

Some of the designer brands are geared more toward selling the latest fad foods without really having done a lot of testing to see if the particular fad does everything it is claimed to do in terms of the dog's health.

Anyway--the take away here for me is that you find a food that works for your dog. It doesn't have to be the most expensive food out there; price alone doesn't insure quality. It probably shouldn't be the cheapest one either, of course.

It just seems that Purina Proplan fits a lot of dobes' systems; the price is reasonable; Purina has years of testing behind their products. Your mileage with your individual dog may vary, but I think, from my personal experience (and as you can read, a lot of folks agree), that the Proplan foods are a good place to start.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valexitch View Post
Thank you.... great to be a part of the community. I will definitely stay in touch as I am sure I will have questions.

With that may I ask what food you use? I’ve read that a raw diet is best but I have also read that breeders especially show breeders like the Purina Pro Plan. I thought of using the Purina but subsidizing with some organ meat and vegetables.

Any thoughts?
The best food is one your dog likes to eat, does well on, and that you can afford to feed.

What's best for some dogs isn't best for others. Pro Plan is a popular food, and one I'm currently feeding to my dogs, namely the Sensitive Skin and Coat Salmon and Rice formula.

Yes, heart is muscle meat, not organ. So is tongue. Organ meat is things like liver, sweetbreads, kidneys, and all the other gross innards that usually get lumped together as "by-products" when included in commercial pet food.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you... much appreciated. I have only had European boxers in the past and boxers stomachs are sensitive to EVERYTHING. I tried all the expensive foods and found .... truth be told... the Kirkland brand from Costco to be the one that worked for them. They had long healthy lives. With that said I feel the Doberman is like a fine machine that must be well maintained and part of that is with a great diet. Again as I have said I am newer to the Doberman world and I am just very excited about the breed. Such a prestigious dog.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valexitch View Post
This is all great stuff. Thank you. You are right I was considering the heart meat as organ meat. I will definitely take note of the liver. I was planning on putting the meat and veggies in food processor and then freezing small portions to subsidize the kibble food. Great idea for the treats.

I am just so surprised that everyone leans towards the purina versus foods like Origen or the like which is just so much more expensive. Really good to know!!

I am learning a lot from you!! Thank you for all of your help . Greatly appreciated.
Hi Valexitch,

Sometimes expense isn't (or shouldn't be the best item to choose food) I think Origen is a perfectly good food but over time it has turned out to not be the best thing to fee puppies--a awful lot of puppies end up with continuous soft stools or diarrhea when fed Origen. And I think for it's price it's not the best thing to feed if you are considering your pocket book along with value.

I also prefer to use foods that are manufactured by company's that use vet nutritionists to create formulas and then actually field test the product on live dogs to see if the formula does what it's supposed to do.

A lot of years ago I asked my vet what the best food to feed was? He said, buy from the big company's--the ones who make and test the foods on dogs.

So I've kind of done that since 1959. And it seems to have worked for me and my dogs.

But the bottom line is that what you feed should be what your dog likes and eats eagerly. It should give you a dog who has bright eyes, great energy, shiny coat, solid stools and you shouldn't have to feed a ton of it to keep the dog in good weight.

Not all dogs do well on the same thing--not even similar formulas from the same manufacturer.

One of my Dobes was very hard to keep weight on--over a period of time I finally ended up feeding him a diet that was 50% ProPlan Chicken and Rice and 50% Costco's regular Adult Chicken and Rice. And I've had at least one dog who needed and got a prescription diet for most of his life. And at the other end of the scale one of my roommates had a Beagle who had terrible skin and had outbreaks of allergy type stuff that made him itch, scratch himself raw and I was in a big feed store buying food for my dogs and there was a guy who was buying food--I recognized him from dog shows as a Beagle breeder and asked what he was feeding. Told him about my friends Beagle and the skin problems that had him on steroids often.

He told me what they were loading into his truck was what he fed and recommended it. I bought a bag--the ingredients were terrible--it looked kind of like floor sweepings. But we fed the Beagle that and only that and by the end of the first bag no more itching scratching--skin healed up and he never had a problem again.

A lot of times what is the best food for your dog has nothing to do with price--it's what works--and sometimes trying foods to hit on the best one is appropriate. But if you are working your way through a trial and error on food make sure you are feeding a trial food long enough to get a real idea of if it's working.

The bottom line is between two and three months but the exception to that would be if your dog doesn't eat a food eagerly from the beginning --try something else.

Good luck with your puppy to be.

dobebug
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 10:42 AM
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Price definitely does not indicate that a particular food is better than another. I don't know if you remember Evo? At one time, it was the most highly recommended food out there, and one of the more expensive one, to boot.

I figured I'd give it a try, since people "in the know" seemed to be horrified that my dogs were eating Bil-Jac kibble. I wound up throwing away the last ten pounds or so of a thirty pound bag. Both my dogs, a Standard Rat Terrier and a mutt, had loose stools (these were dogs with cast iron stomachs...), flaky skin, and rough, dry fur. They had also both lost weight, because to see if it was just over-feeding that was causing the loose stools, I had cut back on the quantity I was feeding.

I also tried another highly rated brand that was on the pricey side, and wound up with the Rattie coming down with acute pancreatitis. Meanwhile, the mutt had turned into a walking snowstorm, she had such bad dandruff.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 02:22 PM
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I also feed Proplan, and like Bug, prefer a food formulated by veterinary nutritionists (many of them on staff at Purina), and extensively tested, including digestibility studies.

My dogs get eggs maybe once or twice a week, sometimes raw, sometimes hard boiled. They get a tin of sardines split between the two of them at least 2-4 times a week. A little dollop of cottage cheese pretty much every day. I sometimes give a little bit of canned green tripe (I like the Trippett brand). Sometimes a little fruit, if I'm having some. They get "tastes" of things if I'm having something and feeling generous, but I don't feel like I need to add anything to their kibble for them to have complete meals. The only additions are their fish oil/vitamin E, one is on a joint supplement (he's almost 8).


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Great information. Thank you! All of you Doberman owners are so kind 😁
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