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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2020, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Age of onset for becoming "dog selective"

I'm curious at what age you've noticed your puppy/dog transitioning from being dog social / friendly to dog tolerant / selective.

For Fiona, it was like a switch flipped around 18-months of age. She went from being super dog social and eagerly playing with any dog when given an opportunity, to then being her reserved adult self who wanted to lay down the ground rules and only accept dogs who accepted her rules.

I got Tali when she had just turned 2 and she always ranged between dog friendly and dog tolerant. She didn't bother anyone but if they engaged her in play, she was generally happy to join in. If they were mildly rude, she was pretty good about just ignoring them and putting distance between her and the other dog. (If they picked a fight, she would give them one, but that was never her primary goal.)

Dempsey is same-sex aggressive if you give him an opening. That set in around 2-yrs of age according to his breeder (I got him at 3.5 yrs). On leash, he will totally ignore other males. They simply don't exist as far as he's concerned. At agility, he focuses on me and we're a team and, again, no other dogs exist. But if you put him out in the yard with another male or another male was in the house - he would do everything in his power to have a fight. But he ranges from super friendly to polite / tolerant / indifferent toward females. I've never seen him be aggressive or posture with a female. Its not uncommon in terriers in general, although I think its generally seen less in Ratties (but not exactly rare either).

Cypress LOVES little dogs. (little = anyone smaller than herself) So far, she's equally adoring of males and females, they just have to be smaller than her. She's polite and plays very well with them. And she seems curious about other Dobermans. She's interested, she wants to sniff and meet them, but she's not wiggly excited about them like little dogs. However, other dogs - i.e., non-Dobe dogs her size or bigger - she is tolerant to selective. She's 100% fine around them on leash and off leash, she just doesn't want to interact with them at all. Its interesting how she seems to have categorized dogs on a spectrum from adoration to "you're a total waste of my time, and don't even think about getting in my bubble." And she's basically been like that since day 1. Her categories of dogs she likes to dogs she wishes would disappear haven't really changed.

What's everyone else's experience?



Old Drum's Crimson Crisp CGC, "Fiona" 04-21-2009 - 01-15-2018
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin CGC LC-10D, "Tali" 05-09-2008 - 08-19-2018



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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2020, 05:37 PM
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Interesting. Mocha was very tolerant of people and other dogs and with her it was the same, like someone flipped a switch. And I can't remember exactly, but it was somewhere around 18-20 months or so.

Funny thing is, she does tolerate smaller dogs. My daughter can bring her little yorkie over and Mocha acts like she's been around that dog all her life. Maybe it's because Mocha grew up with a Shih Tzu already in the house?
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 06:58 AM
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Rip was around 2 when that happened.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 09:45 AM
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Kiri is five now and I believe that attitude started with her about two years ago and has gotten worse. This is a girl that we showed to her GrCh a CGC, a WAC with no evidence of aggression. At around 3 yrs, she started discriminating against all dogs except Dobermans. We called her a racist. Now it isn't even fun to take her for a walk. She knows every dog in the neighborhood and prepares herself for the meet blocks before she gets there. At the vets last week she took offense at a Berner that came in. I had to move to a far corner in the waiting room to calm her down. After the Berners owner checked in he brought his dog all the way over to me where I had Kiri on a sit stay and quiet. Brought to dog over to meet Kiri for some insane reason nose to nose. Kiri didn't bark or growl or move from her sit until the dogs nose reached hers and bam she had him by the nose. I was so shocked I said to him, 'Why did you do that?' Of course he was miffed and the others in the office looked at my dog as the guilty party.
Regardless, I don't like this behavior and I am considering getting her a muzzle. I worry that it tends to brand them as a vicious dog to others. But, maybe she will get the hint that it is not acceptable.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNfisher View Post
Interesting. Mocha was very tolerant of people and other dogs and with her it was the same, like someone flipped a switch. And I can't remember exactly, but it was somewhere around 18-20 months or so.

Funny thing is, she does tolerate smaller dogs. My daughter can bring her little yorkie over and Mocha acts like she's been around that dog all her life. Maybe it's because Mocha grew up with a Shih Tzu already in the house?
Yeah, I wonder if there's something to that as well. Cypress' litter was raised with a Jack Russell Terrier and she's lived with Dempsey since coming home. So I think that has likely shaped her perspective on small dogs. Her favorite dog from our first puppy class was an itty bitty Chihuahua puppy. She thought he was absolutely amazing and he was soooooo confident. He didn't hesitate to play with her. It was a pretty adorable pairing.

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Kiri is five now and I believe that attitude started with her about two years ago and has gotten worse. This is a girl that we showed to her GrCh a CGC, a WAC with no evidence of aggression. At around 3 yrs, she started discriminating against all dogs except Dobermans. We called her a racist. Now it isn't even fun to take her for a walk. She knows every dog in the neighborhood and prepares herself for the meet blocks before she gets there. At the vets last week she took offense at a Berner that came in. I had to move to a far corner in the waiting room to calm her down. After the Berners owner checked in he brought his dog all the way over to me where I had Kiri on a sit stay and quiet. Brought to dog over to meet Kiri for some insane reason nose to nose. Kiri didn't bark or growl or move from her sit until the dogs nose reached hers and bam she had him by the nose. I was so shocked I said to him, 'Why did you do that?' Of course he was miffed and the others in the office looked at my dog as the guilty party.
Regardless, I don't like this behavior and I am considering getting her a muzzle. I worry that it tends to brand them as a vicious dog to others. But, maybe she will get the hint that it is not acceptable.

Ugh. I'm sorry that happened. I absolutely cannot stand when other dog owners think their dog(s) need to meet other strange dogs. Especially when one dog has expressed a dislike of the other. I've surprised and annoyed more than a few other dog owners when they want to introduce our dogs and I shut them down. Just because two dogs are out in the same general area, why do some people think that means they need to meet? I don't go around introducing myself to or making friends with every other person in the grocery store just because we're all there at the same time.

Its fascinating how temperament develops. Some dogs seem to always be one way. Others seem to shift over time and settle into a temperament.

Dempsey and Cypress have far fewer strictly social interactions with other dogs than Fi and Tali did. In part, its because of their temperaments but also in part because my involvement in dogs has become less social and more purpose driven or goal focused. So they're around a lot of dogs but really never interacting with them apart from each other at home.

I used to dog-sit for my friend Barb when I had Fi and Tali. She had two Whippets, both bitches, and they were the only two female friends that Fi and Tali really had. Like, all of them could be loose together in the house and yard and there was never a problem. Tali would even cuddle with both of them and Fiona never snarked at them over toys - not once, which was HUGE for Fi. But Whippets are amazing like that. You can double and triple up on Whippets in a single crate and not have any problems. They're like the Switzerland of dogs. haha



Old Drum's Crimson Crisp CGC, "Fiona" 04-21-2009 - 01-15-2018
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin CGC LC-10D, "Tali" 05-09-2008 - 08-19-2018



Sirai's Novel Weapon TKN, AKC S.T.A.R. puppy, "Cypress" 05-08-2019 -
AKC/UKC CH Bur-way's Unscripted CA TKN, "Dempsey" (Rat Terrier) 11-04-2014 -

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 10:53 AM
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Athena never really had that issue but Kenai, pretty much since the day I got him so around 13 months. I tend to call him a breedist because he doesn't do well with certain breeds, boxers and pits, but his previous "owners" were not the greatest and used him as a bait dog so I don't blame him for his reactivity. The boyfriend says Tahoe was probably around 2 but Tahoe just is very picky about a lot of things, including dogs he hangs around with.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 11:24 AM
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Only two of mine were troublesome around other dogs, though they didn't really get the chance to play with any outside the family. But they all seemed more interested in their family people as in other dogs, really.

Caesar, my first, had a thing against Golden Retrievers. He had been attacked by one as a youngish dog, and he could pick out the breed a mile away. And we used to call him "racist" (breedist??) too. It's weird how dogs can pick a certain breed to dislike.

Capri HATED puppies. I guess they were rude, as puppies generally are? But she would be sure to go after them if they got in her face. I never let it get to the point of a fight, so I don't know if she was just warning them off or if she would have really attacked.

But I don't remember any of mine posturing for fight or pitching an aggressive fuss while on leash.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 11:34 AM
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Sypha was always tolerant of other dogs, but just generally uninterested in playing with anyone except Richter, except when she was a puppy-puppy. Like, in puppy class. We could go to the park (and yes, entirely different discussion), and she would very appropriately greet any other dog (sniff, etc), and then just move on. She never really showed any desire to play with anyone. There was ONE time she played - it was with another Doberman. But we've seen other Dobermans at other times, and she didn't really want to play. So I don't think it was a breed thing, just her.

Interestingly, AFTER she was spayed this year (age 4), she's played with other dogs a couple of times at the park. I was really shocked. It's still rare - she's pretty indifferent to other dogs.

She did have a problem with one bitch, ONCE, in a smaller fenced yard, after a Nosework session, but it didn't escalate (and of course I'd stepped in and both of us leashed up and moved away). She was fine being leashed and nearby. I think she was partly just tired and maybe overstimulated. They'd been running loose together and checking things out together for about 10 minutes with no issues.

Because this thread is about dog-dog tolerance, I'm going to provide the link for dog-dog tolerance from Bad Rap, because I think every dog owner should read it and be familiar with it: https://badrap.org/training-resources/dogdog-tolerance


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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 01:47 PM
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Interesting thinking there 82 ! I would almost guess that your in some sort of research

I had to do some thinking on your question - But all our dogs have been like people - No one the same .

Now Chi was a all around dog lover , never meet a dog she didn't like .

Kasia was 2 faced - lol Take her out of the house or the fenced in area and she did very well - never growled at another dog - Now the 2 face part - we would walk over to the neighbors on nice evening here - they had a Lab and Buster loved when Kasia came over - they got along great , One day Tom came over and brought Buster - dang it was hot out - we had a built in pool and I told Tom , bring in Buster and have him go swimming , As soon as he entered the fenced in area - We had a girl I had never seen before - Kasia went right for him - teeth peeled and she meant business - It was all I could do to keep her from attaching him while Tom got Buster out of Dodge ! I guess this was HER place and other dogs were not welcome . BTW - She got along with Ali great when we got her - Well I guess wasn't over joyed at first - but she never attached her .

Kadin was raised with other males in the kennel where he came from and he thought he was a big boy when we got him home - he ding donged Poor Ali till she put him in his place - And being a slow learner , he had to have a reminder course for a few months .

I have posted on here about Kadin and other dogs - Had a deal like Cressrb sort of - had to get him over to the other side of the room - it wasn't pretty - even a Vet walked out to see what was going on - He seen Kadin and laughed and walked back into his office lol

But you know - I can not pinpoint one age were where they had a change in attuite to other dogs , it was like they were when they were puppies - you like them or you don't . lol
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 01:56 PM
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I think Brandy always thought that she was THE bitch and as long as everyone else thought that too, she was fine. It wasn't until she was older 5/6, that we had to stop taking her to the dog park. She didn't tolerate other dogs around her and developed a hatred for small, black dogs. I'm still not sure where that came from.
Newton has always been wary of other dogs. I had to work with him a lot! I'd never trust him in a dog park and he has only a couple close dog friends. He was attacked twice, once through no fault of his own (we were waiting our turn at nose work class and a reactive dog was let off leash and made a beeline right for him and attacked) and the other time was with another male Dobe. It happened so fast, we're not sure who started it.

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 02:05 PM
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It happened so fast, we're not sure who started it.


79 - what I have noticed is its the eyes ! Once one stares at the other - If I miss it - and it only takes a second - it's game on .

I have to distract Mr. B quick , then he's ok - well for that moment
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 02:51 PM
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It seems to be true, Ken, that each Doberman we have had (4) have been unique in themselves, just like people.
Kiri was a different dog in the show ring, used to judges going over her head to tail, but out of the ring and especially
at home, she could not tolerate someone in front of her staring her down. Most of my daughters friends were used to
Duggan's personality - he knew no stranger and loved, loved children. When friends would come to visit my daughter
she would say to them, just ignore Kiri, do not make eye contact and just talk to me. Kiri would sit by my daughter
watching and listening and after 5 to 10 minutes she would walk over to the person and make friends. She is that way
even now. I mentioned once on here that when Kiri took her WAE the only test we feared her reaction was the 'friendly
stranger'! I am making myself vulnerable to others reading this perceiving her to have a bad temperment. I don't think
she does. My daughter lives alone and says she really is okay with this attitude.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 04:18 PM
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My first Dobe was eventually very same sex aggressive--was inclined to ignore other dogs at shows but that was more training than anything else. A friend who had a Basset and I used to go to shows together--my Dobe didn't like the Basset one little bit--they got along in the vehicle but tried to fight once out of it. My Dobe would pin the Basset on his back and the Basset would try to disembowel my Dobe--lovely pair of dogs.

The rest of the dogs were a bunch of boys with different attitudes. Colt who as largely Array breeding on his sires side was and stayed a male you could put out with any other dogs--male, female, neutered , of any age. The only dog he didn't like was his red litter brother--Jeep evidently said something that Colt didn't like at a show ring as the were leaving and Colt threatened to kill him. But that was one dog one time.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:03 AM
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About sexual maturity at ~2ish is when I was told Pen started to become dog aggressive, particularly with a Golden in the same neighborhood. To compare, the last family dobe was dog-friendly and even dog park safe until he passed.

After a bunch of work, she graduated dog tolerant and polite at the vet but, like @brw1982 's kiddo, more neutral to other dobermans. Initially, all it took was a stare (bully breeds were the worst at this) and she would go for it. We did muzzle train but she was making progress as long as we worked on diffusing tension and managing triggers.

You learn to become aces at reading body language with a selective dog. Boy howdy.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:07 AM
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Steris said:
"You learn to become aces at reading body language with a selective dog."

This is so true! Almost like learning a second language, isn't it.
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"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
Steris said:
"You learn to become aces at reading body language with a selective dog."

This is so true! Almost like learning a second language, isn't it.
Right? Everyone present could write an essay on watching that tension run through a dog like electricity.


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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:38 AM
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Yes. I have been in a show ring and not even looking at my dog, but felt that tension thru the lead!

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-08-2020, 09:56 AM
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Thought I'd add this video link to the thread. Bad Rap has a really nice video on dog/dog tolerance and, importantly, how it changes over time!

https://vimeo.com/210692574?fbclid=I...pwPgaQoG5_m7QE
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DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG TKN WAC
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What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-08-2020, 10:31 AM
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That's a nice video--short (which is always an advantage with my attention span ), very clear and to the point. AND it has a dobe in it!!
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 10:04 AM
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Harvard was just turned 7 months when I took him to his first show. We were waiting to go in the ring when I felt him rumbling - looked to see what he was rumbling at, and it was a lovely male special. I knew right then that he would never tolerate another male.
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Mary Jo Ansel
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AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 02:12 PM
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Starbuck was about 3 when I noticed it happening. She went from extremely playful and dog social to dog tolerant, probably overnight. She still prefers certain breeds of dogs, but she'll ignore dogs completely if they're not her style. I can take her to the dog park now, and excepting polite butt sniffs, she ignores other dogs in favor of running in circles and interacting with me.

This is the dog that had to be crated or physically retrained to keep her from playing at 2 years old...

At 5, I'd say she's crankier and bitchier than ever, but there's no real dog aggression (yet).
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