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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
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Dog sleeping in bed, and baby on the way

I am pregnant with our first child and baby is due in 4,5 months. Our doberman is a little over a year now. She sleeps in bed with us every night, always under the covers down with our feet. She has been sleeping in our bed since she was 4 months and loves it obviously. My question is, how should we start training her to sleep in a crate or in her dog-bed (which she never uses), so that when the baby comes she is used to not sleeping in our bed? Do any of you have experience from this situation with a newborn? I guess it's not an option to have both dog and baby sleep in our room (unless dog is crated)?
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 07:04 AM
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Why can't she sleep in your bed and the baby in a crib? Is she crate trained?
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 08:17 AM
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Have NO experience with this kind of situation , But I will add - It's very hard to take away the privilege our your Dober to sleep with yeah - My guess is she will keep up at night more than the baby or putting her in a crate . Its hard to undo things .

Agree with Greenie - Baby in there bed , Dober in her bed with you .
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Have NO experience with this kind of situation , But I will add - It's very hard to take away the privilege our your Dober to sleep with yeah - My guess is she will keep up at night more than the baby or putting her in a crate . Its hard to undo things .

Agree with Greenie - Baby in there bed , Dober in her bed with you .

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 09:07 AM
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It's always a bit of a challenge to retrain a dog to take away a privilege they've had previously. If your dog is not already crate trained you'll be starting from scratch, so you simply would need to start on crate training overall, and slowly wean her away from sleeping with you.

If you've not looked into it yet, I highly, highly recommend anyone who is expecting a baby and has a dog take a class like "dogs and storks". Preparing your dog for a new baby is really important, rather than assuming it will simply go well.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 09:50 AM
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I had dobermans and babies at the same time; I don't remember any bed-sharing problems. Of course, sleep did not seem to be an option with my first baby but generally if the baby was sleeping, he was always in his crib or next to me when I lay down, or being held.

The main space sharing problem I can remember, at the beginning especially, is that if I lay down on the floor with the baby, my dobe always tried to lie down between us. Carefully and gently, but still....it was actually rather funny.

But I do highly recommend that you take the kind of class Meadowcat recommended above relatively early in this process, so you have time to train the pup or mold his behavior if there are places where that could be a problem. You may also find out there are some potential problems or some new behaviors you'd like to have in place already that you hadn't thought of. There is a learning curve for sure when it comes to new babies.

One command I like to teach all of my dogs, but which I found especially useful with a baby in the house, is a "wait" command. It is basically a sort of freeze in place, no matter what the dog is doing--sitting, standing or lying down; it's an informal "stay". It is useful when you're trying to navigate with a baby stroller or an armful of grocery bags, and a tangled up dog leash; useful when you open the car door and don't want him to jump out right away. It's useful if the dog is off leash and you don't necessarily want to call him to you, but want him to stop heading in the direction he is going until you give him permission to keep moving. I don't like to call a dog to come just so I can put him on a leash--I just tell him to "wait" and go get him.

It is a casual command; I'm not expecting the dog not to move a muscle and to focus intently on me without looking away as I might do with a formal stay. And it can help prevent a stepped-on baby, or limit a dog's immediate and perhaps clumsy response in a situation when the baby or toddler wants to occupy the same space as the dog. A very useful command for me.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 11:26 PM
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Whiteelephants - Congrats on your new human baby.
- but your girl is already treated, like a baby...and nothing wrong with that
- and our girl, sleeps on the bed too, covered up with dads old cotton robe
- to late now, she won't ever sleep in a crate

My girls, never would sleep in a crate...and that is more than fine, so we a crate-less family here.
- while baby goes in a crib at night, when the family took a nap...a newborn, a Doberman, and mom & dad...made it work

Funny story, last girl I sent after a stray black cat...under our bird feeder.
- only when Dobe was practically on the skunk...did I see the white stripe
- so after repeated tomato juice baths, at 3:30 am in the morning
- a crap blanket went on the old couch...and dad and former Amy, slept nose to nose...sharing a pillow
- the smell woke me up, every 15 minutes // but I'm her dad, so I did what I had to do
- she would NEVER sleep alone, and I would never break her heart...she was family
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 12:45 PM
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I let mine sleep on the bed for a few months until I realized that having a big dog in a bed with 2 people is simply uncomfortable. He was previously crate trained, but I was afraid that he would put up a fight if I suddenly transitioned him to a crate. Nope. I started crating him for the night with no problems. He sleeps about 6 hours without interruptions. You may have an issue if your dog has not been previously crate trained. Try an e-collar.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 06:40 AM
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Try an e-collar. ????? Your kidding , right ? Your shocking him or her to be quite ? Personally - I just don't think that is a good idea .

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
I let mine sleep on the bed for a few months until I realized that having a big dog in a bed with 2 people is simply uncomfortable. He was previously crate trained, but I was afraid that he would put up a fight if I suddenly transitioned him to a crate. Nope. I started crating him for the night with no problems. He sleeps about 6 hours without interruptions. You may have an issue if your dog has not been previously crate trained. Try an e-collar.
If you mean an electronic collar, I think that's wildly inappropriate for this. I'm not against e-collars, but I would never use them for this situation.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 10:57 AM
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Yeah, I wouldn't be using an electronic collar for that purpose either.

I don't let dogs sleep with me--as puppies they all sleep in a crate next to the bed. My vry first Dobe convinced me that even puppy Dobes could (and did) shove me out of the bed and all are bed hogs and have bony elbows and knees.

They also don't get to get on furniture--I had my first Dobes back when you had to wear the kind of clothes that had to be dry cleaned so I just eliminated dogs on furniture by never letting them on furnitures even as darling lil' puppies.

Dogs have selective memories--if you let them do something once (they will always try to do it again, and again and again.) If you want a dog not to do something don't let them do it EVER.

So the puppies sleep in crates and graduate to a dog bed inside an ex-pen beside the bed (that's so that they go to sleep instead of trying to get any other dog sleeping the bedroom to play with them or pester the cat who is sleeping on my bed) and from there I remove the ex-pen and they have the big cushy dog bed to sleep on.

If I have more than one dog sleeping in the bedroom there are as many dog beds as there are dogs (even though sometimes in the morning all dogs are sleeping on the same dog bed. And there a dog beds in every room except the kitchen (it has a big crate with bedding in it--both the dogs and cats hang out in it when they think I may be passing out treats while I'm cooking).

And as far as crates go--eventually with every new puppy I'm planning on showing them--so they need to be well crated trained before we start going to show. And they are.

If you have to change the house rules about where your dog sleeps expect to spend some time doing a retraining. Just remember, you were the one who let the dog sleep in the bed so now you get to retrain...

Good luck...

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 02:24 PM
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Our dogs all sleep in dog beds in our bedroom now.... but did not do so when we had babies..... mostly because our bed was only a queen back then. It would be hard to retrain a dog to sleep in a dog bed on the floor when they are used to sleeping in your bed. If you feel it is necessary, I'd do a crate. I'd start well before the baby comes.

My second baby would never sleep on her own.... not even in a cradle right next to the bed. So she did sleep right next to me for probably the first 4-5 months (I hardly slept the first whole year with her.... zombie land for a year with a baby and 2 year old that didn't take naps) I could never have done that with a dog on the bed! Luckily we had a king sized bed by then - haha. Just as an fyi, my kids are now 23 and 21... they survived with multiple Dobermans.

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 07:21 PM
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If you mean an electronic collar, I think that's wildly inappropriate for this. I'm not against e-collars, but I would never use them for this situation.
E-collars are good tools to correct unwanted behavior if used correctly. Nobody is saying you should be blasting your dog on the highest setting. E-collars also have a vibration setting.

I should've mentioned that trying to crate train a dog first would be helpful by luring her into the crate and giving her treats. If it works, then great. But if she decides to scream and throw temper tantrums in the crate in the middle of the night because she is used to sleeping in the bed, there is nothing wrong with using an e-collar. It just depends on what you prioritize more, trying to get some sleep while your baby is asleep or tending to a screaming dog when you should be sleeping.

It's a little funny that people lose their minds at the thought of "shocking" a dog, instead of finding a way to allow a young mother and her baby to sleep at night.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 07:57 PM
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Using an E-collar to shock a dog because it's upset it's in the crate and not the bed where you trained it to be is, JMO, the worst thing you could do. Look at it from the dog's point of view, after all, that's the reality of the situation. Imagine you're no longer allowed to sleep in the bed (happy) and are relegated to a crate. Think about how upset you would be. Add to that that when you hoot and holler about your unhappiness, out of the blue you get zapped. Think about that. Nice way to make your puppy to never want to go into the crate....any crate, because that's where you get hurt.

Would you use an E-collar on a baby because it cried when you put it in its crib?? Again, JMO.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 08:10 PM
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Using an E-collar to shock a dog because it's upset it's in the crate and not the bed where you trained it to be is, JMO, the worst thing you could do. Look at it from the dog's point of view, after all, that's the reality of the situation. Imagine you're no longer allowed to sleep in the bed (happy) and are relegated to a crate. Think about how upset you would be. Add to that that when you hoot and holler about your unhappiness, out of the blue you get zapped. Think about that. Nice way to make your puppy to never want to go into the crate....any crate, because that's where you get hurt.

Would you use an E-collar on a baby because it cried when you put it in its crib?? Again, JMO.
Firstly, babies are not dogs and using e-collars on babies is illegal. Also, using babies as an analogy in this situation is absolutely and positively asinine.
Secondly, and once again, nobody is saying that you have to blast a dog to oblivion with an e-collar.

From the dog's point of view, now they sleep in a crate and they don't want to and they want to rebel. It's your prerogative whether you want to spend sleepless nights trying to put up with with a dog crying in a crate and hope it will get corrected with treats, or use a mild correction and put a stop to it IMMEDIATELY so you and your baby can sleep.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 08:30 PM
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Why is a human baby's (a 6 week old, for example) behavior not a good analogy for a puppy's behavior?

E collars are used to proof a dog's behavior once he knows what a command means. If you have your dog trained to come, and he decides to ignore you, that is a time when you can use an e-collar to reprimand him for not following your command. A puppy learning to be alone in a crate has NO idea how he is supposed to act; he just knows he's unhappy.

Zapping him does nothing to help him feel more comfortable in the crate. It only makes him fear it. A dog that is crate trained thinks of his crate as a den--a safe and comfortable place to sleep. If he is zapped when he is in the crate, he will hardly think of it as his den.

You don't correct a dog's whining in the crate with treats...you help make the crate a fun place to be with treats. But you do not reward a puppy WHEN he is whining by giving him attention or treats. That is a sure way to teach the puppy that whenever he hollers he'll get exactly what he wants.

You show him a crate is a good place to be with treats or even by giving him his meals inside the crate. You do not yell at him, bang on the crate or zap him if he is whining or barking; you simply ignore the puppy's complaints and only give him attention once he has been quiet for a few minutes.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 08:30 PM
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To think I was advocating using an E-collar on a baby shows a lack of comprehension of my statement. Calling me asinine is rude and unnecessary. Secondly, blasting or a mild buzz is still something the puppy could equate with the crate. It's not a matter of the puppy rebelling, more a case of the puppy being unhappy with the changed situation and it's voicing that. Punishment whether a blast or something less does not work as well as patience and some tolerance on your part. Cover the crate, ignore the puppy and the situation will resolve. The crate should ALWAYS be a safe place and not one that is unpleasant.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Why is a human baby's (a 6 week old, for example) behavior not a good analogy for a puppy's behavior?

E collars are used to proof a dog's behavior once he knows what a command means. If you have your dog trained to come, and he decides to ignore you, that is a time when you can use an e-collar to reprimand him for not following your command.

A puppy in a crate cries because he is unhappy not being with you--zapping him does nothing to help him feel more comfortable in the crate. It only makes him fear it. A dog that is crate trained thinks of his crate as a den--a safe and comfortable place to sleep. If he is zapped when he is in the crate, he will hardly think of it as his den.

You don't correct a dog's whining in the crate with treats...you help make the crate a fun place to be with treats. But you do not reward a puppy WHEN it is whining by giving it attention or treats. That is a sure way to teach the puppy that whenever he hollers he'll get exactly what he wants.

You show him a crate is a good place to be with treats or even by giving him his meals inside the crate. You do not yell at him, bang on the crate or zap him if he is whining or barking, you simply ignore the puppy's complaints and only give him attention once he has been quiet for a few minutes.
It's not a good analogy because humans and animals are different and you will likely go to jail if you put an e-collar on a baby. No normal human being would put an e-collar on a baby. Eventually babies grow up and understand language, dogs understand words that they associate with actions. I can't believe I had to explain this. Did you really just ask me that question?

E-collars are used to train, period, whether a dog knows a command or not. Dog whines, you say "no" and click. Soon, the dog will know that whining = discomfort and stops whining in the crate. If you actually know anything about e-collars, you would realize that the "shock" is more equivalent to a poke. There are certain brands of e-collars that use blunt stimulation instead of the standard sharp "shock". Do your research.

Ignoring a whiny puppy can exacerbate the situation and turn whining into a psychotic outburst because the dog gets overstimulated and overly excited. Correcting the situation is the best and most humane way for both the dog and the owner.

I didn't say that a dog's whining should be corrected with treats. I said that crate-training should be done with treats. If all positive attempts fail, what do you do next? Why does the dog's comfort take precedent over the human's? Oh god forbid we make the dog uncomfortable, but a new mother and baby can deal. Great advice!
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 08:59 PM
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Great advice!
Thank you!!

I chopped the rest of the nonsense off because that's just what it was. BTW you HAVE gotten great advice here. The posters who have been kind enough to respond to your posts have a tad more experience in Dobermans and training than you can imagine.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 09:20 PM
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A 6 week old baby is very much on the same developmental level as a similar aged puppy.

You can use an ecollar as a preventative--to stop barking, keep a dog in the yard, etc, (though even in those cases it is best if he already knows what you want--if you've taught him a "quiet command, or the yard's boundaries, for example) but you are using it strictly in an aversive fashion. The collar uses physical discomfort or even pain to teach the dog what NOT to do. It may stop the unwanted behavior (barking in the crate), but it will not teach the dog what the proper behavior is (enter the crate willingly when it is bedtime or whenever he wants to be alone.)

I don't think the OP here wants her dog to dread the crate; she just wants him off the bed when she and the baby are trying to sleep there.

In this particular case, you are aiming for more than a dog who simply will not bark in the crate because he knows unpleasant things will happen if he does--you want the dog to be comfortable in his crate and actually even use it preferentially as a bed. You want him to go into his crate fairly willingly--you don't want to have to drag him in and lock him into the crate as a cage. A crate is simply a tool to keep him safe when you can't watch him or let him loose around the house, or when he is likely to get in the way of something you want to do (including sleep).

An ecollar may stop the barking or whining in the crate--it will not help the dog be comfortable there.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 09:21 PM
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Thank you!!

I chopped the rest of the nonsense off because that's just what it was. BTW you HAVE gotten great advice here. The posters who have been kind enough to respond to your posts have a tad more experience in Dobermans and training than you can imagine.
You chopped the rest because you couldn't care less about the original poster or giving her helpful advice. You are really not interested in having a conversation, you just want to be immature and throw around personal attacks.

Posters have been "kind enough" by responding to me? Isn't that what you do on the forums?

And by "a tad more experience" you mean sleeping with their dogs and giving a pregnant woman no advice that can help her. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

This has been really enlightening. Bye!

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An ecollar may stop the barking or whining in the crate--it will not help the dog be comfortable there.
A baby is still a bad analogy because you won't actually put an e-collar on a baby for comparison.

You make a dog comfortable by putting a nice bed in the crate, giving her treats, toys, and feeding her there. E-collar is not meant to make the dog comfortable. It is meant to stop unwanted behavior for the benefit of the human.

Last edited by Yulie; 02-27-2020 at 09:26 PM.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post

Ignoring a whiny puppy can exacerbate the situation and turn whining into a psychotic outburst because the dog gets overstimulated and overly excited. Correcting the situation is the best and most humane way for both the dog and the owner.
If you have rewarded the puppy's whining or barking with attention or even letting him out (and yelling or banging on the cage is sometimes perceived as attention by the pup), then he IS likely to escalate his behavior, because he knows that eventually you will give in. It's the same kind of reasoning that a toddler uses when he blackmails his parents by throwing a tantrum if he doesn't get what he wants. He's probably found out that sometimes pitching a fuss works, so why not keep it up?

But when you crate train properly, yes, you will have a whining puppy for a few days (longer if the dog is older or is an adult with set habits), but he will fairly rapidly learn the barking isn't worth the effort because it doesn't get him what he wants.

But right now is the time the OP should be working on the crate training, if she chooses to go that way. Once the baby arrives and good sleep is on the utmost importance to mom and baby, the pup will already know where he can sleep comfortably.

Note:
True separation anxiety will complicate crate training and may require some different methods, because the dog's unbalanced temperament will lead to more extreme behavior. But there is no hint here that the OP is talking about a dog that shows separation anxiety.
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Last edited by melbrod; 02-27-2020 at 10:02 PM.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 09:53 PM
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You chopped the rest because you couldn't care less about the original poster or giving her helpful advice. You are really not interested in having a conversation, you just want to be immature and throw around personal attacks.

Posters have been "kind enough" by responding to me? Isn't that what you do on the forums?

And by "a tad more experience" you mean sleeping with their dogs and giving a pregnant woman no advice that can help her. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

This has been really enlightening. Bye!



A baby is still a bad analogy because you won't actually put an e-collar on a baby for comparison.

You make a dog comfortable by putting a nice bed in the crate, giving her treats, toys, and feeding her there. E-collar is not meant to make the dog comfortable. It is meant to stop unwanted behavior for the benefit of the human.
"Immature and throw around personal attacks" and what exactly was your response in your previous post? Oh, yes.....you referred to me as asinine.

Believe it, we have been "kind" to you. There are a number of these forums where posters would have ripped into you for a lot less.

What you should be aware of is that the members here have been trying to help the OP with many many years of experience and success by also explaining why your advice was poor at best.

The analogy was an appropriate one. Whether you understand it, accept it or not. So I will spell it out for you.....a puppy and a baby are similar. I'll repeat....a puppy and a baby are similar. Making the place (crate/crib) something that is not merely unpleasant or painful when you complain/cry but actually frightening is another example of similar. Bottom line....punishment will not get you the solid, consistent (best) results whether it is a child or puppy. And when you use punishment as motivation for a specific behavior the child or puppy responds from a position of fear.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 10:10 PM
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This discussion is starting to get confrontational, with comments that are in danger of crossing the line into unacceptable behavior.

We need to move on to other hints or advice to Whiteelephants and keep the personal attacks off of this thread.

Whiteelephants, if you want to learn more about crate training, I can recommend a couple of websites to you:

Confinement and Crate Training
By Jean Donaldson -
https://bmorehumane.org/wp-content/u...e-Training.pdf

Crates 101: A Guide to Crate Training
Crates 101: A Guide to Crate Training | The Barking Lot
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-27-2020, 11:27 PM
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I would start by teaching a "crate" or "kennel" command and do drills that build on themselves. At first, in the crate, out of the crate, then in the crate and wait to be released, then in the crate, door closed, wait to be released, etc. if the puppy has no experience with the crate, there shouldn't be any kind of anxiety with it and we want to keep it that way. You can graduate to giving her a special chew or puzzle toy when she is in the crate with the door shut to build a positive association with the crate. Like the others said, never give in to whining, don't let her out or give any attention if there is whining and crying, you can certainly disagree with the behavior with a firm "no" or "quiet" etc. to get her to stop whining, and then let her out when she stops. This will allow her to understand the connection of whining=no attention or getting out, quiet=being let out/positive attention. Hope that helps!
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