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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Picking from a litter

Looking for advice on 1st pick from a litter. What should I be looking for? I know that I want a male and black and tan, and want to do obiedence work and psa,but what are the qualities I should look for?

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 03:29 PM
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First find a reputable breeder--one who does complete health testing, who titles their dogs (conformation, and/or advanced titles in other venues--obedience, rally, nosework, protections sports), and one who takes temperament into account when they pick their breeding pair.

This thread should give you some ideas what to look for.

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...e-breeder.html

When you talk to breeders, ask if what they are aiming for in their breeding program is the kind of dog/temperament that would fit well with what you want. Ask if the breeder if they've shown their dogs in those sports.

If you've got yourself lined up with a good breeder, they should be able to help you immensely in terms of which puppy in a particular litter might suit you (there can be differences in temperament even in one litter) Generally a reputable breeder tries to make a good match for each puppy to find a good home for that particular puppy's personality and needs. They care about whether their puppies will be happy in the new homes and whether the new homes will be happy with them.

Actually, beware of a breeder who says that you can choose your own puppy randomly, or who doesn't try to guide you to the individual puppies in a litter who might work for you.

Last edited by melbrod; 02-17-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 04:25 PM
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I told my breeder I wanted a "middle of the road" pup, not the most pushy and not the shrinking violet. They nailed it - she is everything I was hoping for.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 06:42 PM
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A good breeder will not do 1st pick, 2nd pck etc. They will match you to the right puppy, or at least strongly guide you in your choice.

There are not many dobermans doing PSA and not many dobermans who could do PSA. You need to decide if that's something you really want to do, or if you'd be okay with your dog not working out/cutting it in PSA and it's just something you'd end up dabbling in.

Many dobes can do obedience. It will be probably easier to find a middle of the road dog that can do obedience and dabble in PSA at least to a PDC level and/or PSA1, you could potentially also always reconvert to a different bite sport like IGP or Ring, depending on what might have prevented the dog from going further in PSA.


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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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This is the pups father's credentials

work:*ZTP: V-1A, BH; IPO-1

Health
HD: BvWD:*CVI:*


information
IDC 2019 Honour Class Winner black male / IDC Sieger 2016 / HDK yearwinner 2017 (club winner, BOB) / Euro dog show Ukraine 2017 (working class Exc.1) / Europa club show Slovakia 2017 (class winner, Best male, BOB)/ European all star dobermann grand prix 2017 (club winner)/ AIAD J. Sieger 2016/ Balkan youth winner/ HDK youth winner/ BH IPO 1

This is mother
ZTP V1A

Hungarian young club winner
World club show winner
IDC Siegerin 2016
Caliandro winner 2015
IDC working class winner
Young Europe winner





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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 08:24 PM
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Broadly speaking, I agree with what others have already said. However, I'll deviate a bit from it to explain a reasonable exception.

If you are a very experienced owner and have the credentials and/or reputation to back that up, there are times when a breeder might allow you to pick your own puppy. Its unlikely that anyone is given first pick, no matter their credentials, because breeders will pick their best pup for their self. There are some exceptions to this as well, but by and large breeders breed to continue and improve on their own lines. They can't very well do that if they let others have their best pups.

So, what does it mean to be a very experienced owner with the reputation and/or credentials to back it up?

Well, it means you would likely have been "in the breed" a very long time and/or been very active in the the broader purebred dog fancy.

You would be well known (or at least not hard to check-out) because you're probably active in the breed club. If you don't have direct breed experience, then maybe you would be an experienced competitor in sports and have a reputation from that. Or maybe you would have been very active in another breed and have a reputation and contacts in the dog world that way.

But you would have probably titled, or funded the careers of, some to many dogs.

You would be a "sure thing." The breeder would know that you know what you're looking for and you would still likely consult the breeder on the individual puppies in the litter before making a choice because the breeder (ideally) knows his/her lines better than just about anyone and they've raised the litter so they also know the individual pups better. The breeder would also know that you can reasonably assess puppies of the breed, probably have a good understanding of the breeding and pedigree, know what you want to do with the pup/dog AND that probably any puppy that goes to your home will achieve something that is of benefit to the breeder's program.


Having said that, considering that you are here on an internet forum asking what qualities you should look for in order to pick out a suitable sport dog, I would suggest that perhaps the breeder you've identified isn't your best option at this time.

I don't mean to be rude but, any breeder that will approve you for "first pick" for a sport dog when you clearly don't know how to evaluate puppies for that, is just looking for your money or they are way overestimating your ability to independently evaluate a litter of pups. And it will be a crapshoot as to whether or not you get what you're hoping for from that kind of breeder. You might. You certainly could. But it would likely be by pure luck. Those aren't great odds.

You would probably be better off if you were to identify a breeder who is able or willing to provide more help in identifying the "right" puppy for you. Someone who you can ask a lot of questions about the pups and have discussions on individual temperaments and how they're developing and what assessments will be done, how each pup is scored, how the breeder identifies traits that they believe will align with what you want in your adult dog. It will be a fantastic learning experience for you in addition to being far more likely to get what you want. Then you'll learn a whole 'nother truckload about temperament and drives and, and, and through training and competing. And you might still not (probably won't, honestly, if you go to a good breeder) pick out your own puppy the next time around, but you'll be far more prepared to explicitly list traits that you want in your next dog.

Those are my thoughts. Take what you want, leave what you don't. Good luck.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2020, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvenuto11 View Post
This is the pups father's credentials

work:*ZTP: V-1A, BH; IPO-1

Health
HD:B vWD:*CVI:*


information
IDC 2019 Honour Class Winner black male / IDC Sieger 2016 / HDK yearwinner 2017 (club winner, BOB) / Euro dog show Ukraine 2017 (working class Exc.1) / Europa club show Slovakia 2017 (class winner, Best male, BOB)/ European all star dobermann grand prix 2017 (club winner)/ AIAD J. Sieger 2016/ Balkan youth winner/ HDK youth winner/ BH IPO 1

This is mother
ZTP V1A

Hungarian young club winner
World club show winner
IDC Siegerin 2016
Caliandro winner 2015
IDC working class winner
Young Europe winner


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Using this information I am guessing the male is Eutay del Nasi - not a working dog at all. Typical East Euro showlines and on top of that he is closely linebred on dogs who have died suddenly (Fedor del Nasi + his mother Akuna) or died of confirmed DCM (Gino Gomez) + his two parents, and has additional instances of such.
The size of these dogs tend to be exaggerated and will not have the stamina, speed or agility to handle the rigours of PSA. Drive is really a crapshoot with these lines too from what I have seen.

I can also tell you the health testing is incomplete on both parents.

What is the female's name? I'm unable to find the information unless IDC 2016 Siegerin is referencing Tijara del Nasi?
In which case her pedigree has better longevity in the first two generations, however she also has Gino twice and has some other sudden death and DCM dogs that also appear in Eutay's pedigree. So the puppies would be tripled on these high risk dogs. She also does not come from working lines at all, same East Euro show lines story, where drive is a crapshoot. I often see these dogs with IPO1 or IGP1 but rarely see higher levels on them. If they can't get an IPO2 I doubt they can get a PSA1.

I also have seen some shady **** coming from East European kennels, such as but not limited to, titles that are bought out and granted, with no proof the dog was ever present at the trial. I've also seen fudged/faked/stolen holter and echo reports, especially where Pride of Russia is concerned.

I think you have a much better bet looking at a breeder in North America, it will be easier to confirm health testing, and find a breeder that will match you to the right puppy.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2020, 09:45 AM
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Everything brw1982 said.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-23-2020, 01:43 PM
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As you get to know your breeder (if they are reputable) they will know what you want. I have had great choices in the dogs that the breeder chooses for me. They have been able to observe the pup since they were born and are the most qualified at picking/identifying what will fit your wants.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-23-2020, 08:39 PM
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