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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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We can't go to the dog park anymore

Today, I realized that our dog park days are over. Radar had been playing with a dog he has known for at least a year, and all the sudden got tied up in a fight. They always have played well together, and have been well matched size- wise ( the other dog is a GSD). I ended up in the middle of the fight breaking it up, and wound up getting my hands in the wrong place at the wrong time. Both dogs were fine, but I came out with some pretty serious injuries (bad bone bruising, swelling and puncture wounds requiring preventative antibiotics, thank goodness I was wearing gloves at the time).

I'm really bummed, but I think it is time to get my boy fixed (even though i know that may not necessarily help). If it doesn't help, I'm sad to say that our dog park days are over (much to both of our dismay, we love going to the park).

This whole event has scared the hell out of me. Looks like we will be doing more leash walks from now on.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 12:43 AM
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Hi Radar.

You can reference multiple posts here on DT which, for the most part, discourage taking Dobermans to dog parks for this very reason.

I never take my boys to dog parks any more. It is simply not worth the risk.

I am assuming that both dogs were males. If so, for what its worth, I have personal experience that mirrors yours. The difference was that both dogs were mine and had been best of friends for years before the one boy decided that his "brother" had to die. This is not all that uncommon and one reason why many Dobe owners discourage two male living in the same home.

My experience left me with severe injuries that still affect the use of my right hand some 35+ years later. My boys had to be completely separated until the older one passed. If was stressful and a lot of work.

I have subsequently gone on to have multiple male households but this is having seriously studied same Same Sex Aggression, being very proactive and willing to live with the consequences should SSA rear its ugly head.

Still, this is not something that I would recommend to the usual Doberman owner.

So... A couple of thoughts, again assuming that his altercation was with a male.

- Radar should never interact with other males unless under very strict supervision and ONLY after you become very adept at reading his body language and comfort levels. My 5 1/2 yo intact male is never off leash in public and the only dog he is allowed to rough play with is my son's senior male Dobe. Even now, they are never together unsupervised.

- In my experience and the opinion of many others, neutering your boy will likely have no affect on your boys possible aggression towards other dogs.

Finally... If Radar's fight was with a female, I would still take the same precautions. And, definitely no dog parks. Dobermans frequently do not fair well in the uncontrolled melee of poorly trained dogs and clueless owners that make up many dog parks.

All this is just my opinion, of course.

In any case...
Best to you and Radar.

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 02:00 AM
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Even though I'm kind of infamous for keeping mulitple males (successfully) I never, ever recommend it to other people.

I've been fortunate and very, very careful is part of the explanation and I've had more experience with reading my dogs than others.

And the last time I took any of my dogs to a dog park was when one opened up in an off the beat corner of a biggish Portland park and for the first 1/2 year it was open it was winter, rainy and not much known nor used. Since I lived across the street from it I went, with two intact Dobes and an intact Aussie before the sun even came up and the only person who was ever there at the same time was a woman with three greyhounds (two spayed bitches and a neutered dog). We eventually determined that one of my males at a time could run with her greyhounds and that worked out well and certainly gave my Dobes a running workout not to be missed. The Aussie ran with everyone and all of us left if any other dogs showed up.

And you were really lucky that you didn't sustain more damage than you did--never stick your hands into the midst of a dog fight.

I have used some unlikely things to try to stop a dog fight--there was one between Toad when he was young and brash and an older black male--Rumor. Since Toad was 15 pounds heavier than Rumor and an inch and a half taller he evidently thought he had some sort of advantage. But no one had told him that Rumor was a dirty little street fighter in a former life. I heard the squabble start--the three of us were out in the back yard where I'd been watering stuff early in the morning. I grabbed the nearest thing that came to hand (a perfectly useless plastic leaf rake) that was beside the back door and ran--they came around the corner of the house about the same time I got there and I got a couple of good licks in before Rumor grabbed Toad by the nose.

Toad wanted to give up at that point but Rumor was NOT letting go. I shoved the rake in between them and managed to get the slider open and when Rumor opened his mouth to get a better hold on Toad's nose I pushed Rumor inside and kicked Toad away from the door (not that he was at all interested in any more arguing with Rumor by the time).

After that when they went out together they went out in muzzles and I kept an eye on them at all times.

Rumor seemed to bear Toad no ill will (why would he, he won that fight hands down) and Toad was very respectful of Rumor after that was all said and done.

But I learned, when my very first Dobe was a 10 month old puppy and my mothers mutt and my stepdad's Boxer got into it and as I learned later given two dogs in a fight any other dog will be happy to join in. I was loading my car to leave for three shows in eastern Washington--the puppy launched himself into the fight and I did the stupid thing that everyone does at least once--stuck my hands into the three dog fight. I almost immediately got nailed on the wrist--by my dog thankyouverymuch--which did back him out of the fight. To my horror his head was covered with blood and dog spit--it turned out that the blood was from the Boxers mouth and when I was cleaning it off I also found an incisor that he'd left on the Dobes head.

By the time I got to my friends house to pick up her and her dog, my wrist was swollen to twice normal size and hurt like hell. That was the last time I stuck my hands into a dog fight.

So sorry it happened but boy, there is a real good reason that you find that we regularly harp about not taking your Dobermans to dog parks.

ABTLH
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Last edited by dobebug; 02-16-2020 at 02:03 AM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 07:46 AM
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Oh Boy Radar ! The only thing I'm going to harp on you about is your hand - the others have covered the other base pretty well !

Radar I have had a bad bone bruise Alone with a puncture wound - - the bone ended up getting infected and after 3 major surgeries and 3 minor surgeries - and AFTER almost 3 and a half years on antibiotics - I'm finally cleared up !

Keep after taking care of that hand ! Watch for fever - chills - lack of energy - anything !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have them full blood work up after they take you off the meds - it could still be infected - white blood cell count tells lots of stories !

If you think I'm trying to scare you - you right ! I have been threw it and its NO fun !

BTW - A nice Chain lick fence is a lot more fun to play in than a dog park

Wishing you a quick recovery !

Doc
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 08:11 AM
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So sorry about your experience. I've never been a fan of dog parks for numerous reasons but that being the main one. Any dog can react at anytime and when you add other dogs into the mix, anything can happen....and quickly. Ditto on what Dobebug said, dogs will join in and then its chaos. You have to be two things with Dobermans, creative and "gas station ready"-----ALWAYS ready for anything!
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:16 AM
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I'm sorry about your hand, and glad you're okay.

Not much to add that others haven't already said. Neutering is unlikely to change his behavior towards other dogs; this is pretty common in the breed. Most Dobermans, males in particular, mature into dogs that are not necessarily tolerant of other dogs.

It's super important for dog owners of all breeds to understand that adult dogs are different than puppies. They tend to become particular of their playmates, generally becoming "dog selective", and some breeds in particular become "dog aggressive." It's incredibly normal for adult dogs to be dog selective. It's like people - we don't want to hang out with absolutely everyone we meet. This is an excellent read: https://badrap.org/training-resources/dogdog-tolerance

My two are outside the norm - Richter is incredibly dog social, which is pretty odd for a male Doberman. Sypha is pretty dog tolerant. I STILL watch them very carefully with any dog interactions because I'm well aware that things could change, even as adults.

Take care of yourself and heal up. Don't feel badly that he can't play with his "buddy" anymore. It's not something he needs to do.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:26 AM
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Ouch! Scary. It's amazing how much damage a dog can do when he really bites down--it makes you realize how restrained your dog is actually being when he nails you instead of the toy you're both tugging on. Did you get a lecture at the doctor's about your "mean" dog?


I was out in the middle of nowhere up in the mountains one day, and wouldn't you know it...here comes a guy with his large mixed breed, off leash like mine. And of course (well, naturally ) the two dogs decided they didn't like each other. The other dog's owner picked up a rock about a foot in diameter and was going to bash them with it (which scared me as much as the dog fight), so I grabbed his dog's tail (obviously I couldn't grab Caesar's nub) and pulled him away. I stood there hanging onto the one dog and screeching at mine at the top of my lungs, and fortunately he backed off.

But I don't think it was as intense a fight as some are, or maybe they just hadn't had time to really get started.

From all I've heard, neutering a same-sex aggressive dog won't help curb the aggression.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for tour responses. My hand is doing alright today. Still very sore and swollen. Stupid of me to stick my hands in there, but who thinks of that in the moment? Not me.

I should clarify, this isn't the only reason I have been considering neutering Radar. He has been exhibiting a lot more "undesirable" Male behaviors lately. Maybe he is finally maturing. Whatever it is, I think it's time to let them go.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 01:50 PM
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Sorry that incident happened to you Radar!
You know your dog better than anyone else so do what you feel is best for him.
Your family has always been one to do your homework on such things so follow your instincts.
Get better soon !

Hoss
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 02:51 PM
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While we are on the subject.

Neutering a 2 1/2 year old intact male may not have the results vis a vis his "Male Behaviors" that you anticipate. It is certainly not a given.

Our 10+ year old male was neutered at about that age. He still matches McCoy, an intact male, sniff for sniff, lick for lick, mark for mark and crotch poke for crotch poke!

Neither leg humps as that was discouraged from Day 1. (Thank goodness LOL).

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 04:24 PM
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If you are able, a solid strike with you fist to the side of their chest knocks the wind out of them and won’t hurt them. I have broken up two fights that way but it really is better to avoid dog parks. The owners are the biggest problem.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 08:07 AM
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I think I may be one of the few that like dog parks but I think its simply because I am the park lead of my dog park and we try to do everything that we can to insure that there are no issues. We don't have a "small dog" park but a small "dog park" that all can use to avoid situations like this. My male is reactive and doesn't do well with certain breeds (Thank you to his previous POS "owners") so I will keep in him there. We have a very good team of regulars who go at various times of the day to help enforce the rules and keep an eye on this.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-17-2020, 11:04 PM
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I've broken up several fights between bitches..... and not once did I ever stick my hand in there. Ideally if there are two people, each person grabs the rear of a dog, lifts it off the ground and backs away. I've used a kitchen chair (really too heavy), and last time used a backless counter height stool.... which worked pretty well. I'd prefer not to have to break up fights... and can't even imagine trying to break up two 90 lb males.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I STILL watch them very carefully with any dog interactions because I'm well aware that things could change, even as adults.

Take care of yourself and heal up. Don't feel badly that he can't play with his "buddy" anymore. It's not something he needs to do.
I couldn't agree more with this! Over the years, dog fights I have been part of actually happened when an older (and later found to be ill) dog starts acting "off" and everyone else reacts. Even when you think you know your dogs to a T, you have to be ever-vigilant.

I hope you heal well. I am sure you can keep your buddy occupied with walks and things that don't involve dog parks. Truly it is not something he needs to thrive.
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