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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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On the Training of Mesquite

First of all there are very few members over in the obedience forum so I am posting here. If I need to move it that's fine...

I have had dogs all my life and have usually had no trouble with house training, recall training and the sit command. We have a 6 months old doberman and I am aware that she is likely the smartest and potentially most in need of good obedience training of any dog I have ever had. Initially she was allowed the run of the inside and outside until she "bit" my daughter. Long story short she got a little mouthy with my 4 year old when she thought they were playing. I understand this behavior can be normal, but since that time she has basically been under house arrest. This means she is rarely off leash inside or out. She goes out several times a day and we also have a dog run for her that she will stay in when the weather is nice. She is on a shorter leash with me and my wife in the evenings inside our house so she cannot get too crazy with our 15 month old or 4 year old. With that background out of the way I want to tell you all what I am doing and then ask a question.

When I walk her on our property she has a retractable 26' leash and a prong collar. she is able to do her business but any opportunity when she gets more than about 10 feet away I call her wait for her to commit to the recall, click and then when she arrives she gets a treat. I have pre loaded the clicker command FYI. I do this on my busiest days twice daily for at least 15 minutes each time. On lighter days I may walk her 4-8 times a day and we also supplement this with 10-15 minute off leash sessions in the dog run. She responds the the recall command about 95% of the time on the leash and about 85% in the dog run. On a few occasions I have let her off leash on property and she responds about 85% of the time here as well. However, when she decides she's not coming, she's not coming. We have been doing this routine for the last month.

My expectation is that she come 100% of the time when called whether she is off or on leash.

My question is how long should I expect this regimen to take to get my expected results, if ever.

Thanks in advance,

SC
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 09:14 AM
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I'm going to let the more knowledgeable answer, but that retractable leash paired with a prong collar seems like a recipe for disaster. I found a decent article that explains it better than I ever could.

Quote:
Prong collars are intended to correct a dog for pulling ahead of the owner, using the discomfort of the metal grabbing the dog’s neck.

The flexi lead, on the other hand, is best used as something that encourages your dog to run out in front of you, sniff around, enjoy the scenery. In more scientific terms, the flexi offers an variable schedule of reinforcement for the pulling at the end of the leash behavior – although sometimes when they pull, it produces no give in the leash and they don’t get to move forward, other times the lock unclips and they are free to run ahead. This variable schedule is like gambling


There is also the safety component of using a prong collar with the flexi lead. If you’ve ever seen a dog run full speed and hit the end of their flexi lead (or long-line, or tie-out) after a squirrel or deer or whatever else they are enthusiastic about, you can only imagine the damage that could be caused by hitting a prong collar with that speed and force.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 09:36 AM
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IMO if you want 100% recall you have to use an ecollar, I also believe it's the safest thing for a dog whenever they are off leash. You can train until you're blue in the face but most dobes have far too high of a prey drive to have a guaranteed 100% recall especially at only 6mo. old. If you want the 100%, every single time, then I would train with the ecollar and always have it on when off leash. Dogs are very positive thinkers. If you train something and they do it correctly a million times but on the million and first time they don't, and you don't correct them, they will then think it's ok to do it incorrectly. They say for every 1 time your dog is allowed to break a command it takes 1000 more times of them not breaking the command to instill that particular command. Perhaps if you never let her off leash and constantly trained until she was maybe 1.5-2 years old you may then get a 100% recall but that doesn't sound like what you're hoping to do?

Also, your setup doesn't sound like a good recipe for owning a Doberman. It's very hard to have such an energetic working breed with 2 VERY small children. It sounds like your puppy probably isn't getting the mental or physical exercise that it needs, since it constantly has to be on leash. On top of that, you plan to make the dog live in a dog run with it's nice out? Dobermans are a Velcro breed, they were bred to be personal protectors. They need to be near their humans., not out in a dog run. I'm basing this off of what you wrote so potentially there's more to this than what you communicated?

Please rethink the flexi lead. It's an understatement to say that I hate those things. Especially with you having young kids. I hate the thought of them getting tangled up with your puppy and the damage it could cause.

Good luck.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 10:37 AM
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You're in luck. The Fenzi Dog Sports Academy is running their Calling All Dogs class in the February session. https://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.co.../courses/12090 It covers "real life" recalls, not just obedience ring recalls. And even if you do decide to eventually use an e-collar, you still need to teach a recall in a positive manner.

As for how long it will take... well, it depends on a lot of things. including how committed you are to training. At only 6 months, you dog is still very much a baby, and expecting 100% from a baby is only setting yourself and the dog up for failure.

A large, active puppy of a breed notorious for being landsharks and two young kids.... well, it can work, but it is a ton of work. I found it hard enough to deal with a two year old human and baby Rat Terrier puppy that very atypically didn't chew and mouth everything.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 10:51 AM
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She's a baby. I don't expect a really reliable recall at that age. My rule is...I don't use my recall word unless I KNOW they are going to recall...you're still very much in the training stage. I would never, ever use the recall word when she's off-leash at this stage - she hasn't actually "learned" it yet, and you can't enforce it, so...don't use it. You're going to "poison" the cue word (as in, she's learning that the recall word (probably "come") doesn't always mean come).

I'm not against e-collars, I use them, but I don't use them on puppies. I don't think she's old enough to have truly learned your expectation, and I wouldn't be layering in an e-collar at this point. That's my opinion. I do a LOT of recall training. In my world, recall is FUN! Lots and lots of practice on a long line, with very high value rewards. Never with a prong collar. The key to recall is that you always send the dog back to doing the fun thing they were doing prior to the recall - if you teach them that their fun always ends when you call them, recall is NOT fun and you get a dog that's reluctant to come to you. So teaching recall should be this type of chain...you call the dog with a super excited voice with a very high value reward (often I incorporate me running in the opposite direction), dog comes to me (in the early stage, on a long line), dog gets very high value reward and a big party!, THEN! I send the dog back to the fun thing they were doing prior to the recall with my release word (free! or okay!), and we're done. At the end of our session, I do NOT use the recall word to be done.

Susan Garrett has a great recall course you can do called "Recallers".


Oh, and edited to add - to address the "bite" - I'm not opposed to tethering puppies, but I would be more inclined to set up your puppy to succeed with biting by training your kids to be more low-key with her so she doesn't get amped up. They can't play with her in ways that make her too excited. And she needs appropriate chew toys. In addition, I'd probably use gates and x-pens, so she has some more freedom, and everyone learns to live in harmony. Just my two cents.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 10:57 AM
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Thanks for your post today.
IMO my dog did not show full maturity until he reach 18 months or so, so its important to remember your pup is still a baby.
So just like your toddlers you watch there every move to protect them from danger or getting into trouble.
A toddler might eat a crayon when you are not watching, so as a parent you never give them that opportunity.
Your dog is a puppy also so it is good to keep them on a lead until they exhibit they can be trusted around the children. This also keeps the children from doing things that might cause your puppy to do something hurtful. When you think about it it was not that long ago you pup was romping with his littermates.
So be patient, just as you are with your children. Because their little brains and all over the place experiencing so many new things ....they will blow you off when traditionally they have responded to your command. Sometimes not responding to your command in your dogs world ...its just worth it. So think ahead ....when it appears listening to you is not worth it......"make it worth it"......take some time to just watch your dogs body language......he is watching your all the time......you will find as you study him, just through watching ......you will begin to see through his body language events that are getting ready to happen and be able to redirect his attention. As far as being in a dog run, OK for short spirts to take care of business, but IMO if the dog is by himself for awhile at this age , say more than 30 minutes they begin to self instruct ........as no human around to redirect negativity ......so try to cut back on this if possible.
The only thing that worked for me to tire out Hoss as a puppy was "mental Games" .....hide and seek......things that make them think. Physical exercise is important also, but add the mental games also.
Taking them to classes mentally exhausts them............looking for forward to more posts.
So tonight.......take something that is his favorite...hid it in a very easy place..........tell him to find it......and when he does exhibit your happiness...then treat.
As time goes by you can make the hiding spots more difficult.....
With this game , set pup up for success as you WANT him to win by finding .......try this for 10-15 minutes.
You will have a pup that gets real sleepy once the house has quieted down.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:06 AM
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Tex - first off - I can not say how much I demise them retractable leads - They are a accident waiting to find a place to happen . Like G-Red had said .

As far as the biting of your daughter - I will guess that it's from what we call on here the Dobershark age - It has to do with there baby teeth and , it goes away with them losing them , they are also so young and use to ruff housing with there brothers and sisters and they play bite just to hard in there early life .

At sometime in all of our dogs life's , they have forgot there names ! lol Like G-Red said - E-Collar would or should help , I would never , ever , trust any of our dogs on total recall in a un-fenced in area , Them squirrels , rabbits , other dogs are a magnet for them , even the very best trained Dobers .

A dog run just don't get it for a Doberman - they need a nice sized fenced in area to run and exercise in , Over the years - every breeder we talked to required a fenced in area , just say 'n'

I would enroll Mesquite into some kind of puppy class , It really does help - mostly to help train you to train her , I have did this with every Doberman we have had ( since 1981 ) : ) Mr. Business was our first male we have had - he will be 5 in May - He was the most challenging Doberman we have ever had ! Yet with all the work we have done with him - he is outstanding . Training , training , training - I work with him everyday - just simple things then we have harder days of it - it pays in spades ! One of the best things when Mr. B was a puppy that we worked with was what they call set on the leash - or sit on the dog . this is were you hook them up to there lead and then sit on the lead - leave them some slack so they can lay down - they we not like this at first , but pick up quick - they will lay down and start the clock - start them out slow at first , maybe 5 minutes - if they get up before that time , then it starts over when they lay down again till they make that 5 minutes - this teaches them that this is your time . I did that trick every day when working at my desk - or watching tv - very simple to do and it works .

Like G-Red said - these dogs are Velcro Dogs - Remember this - they not only need attention -- they Demand it

Also - Mental work outs really wear them down lots quicker than running in yard - We have focused on Rally OB training , We had a morning class and a afternoon class here at home the other day- after we got done with the afternoon class the other day - Mr. B walked in , jumped up on the couch next to my wife and took a long nap - lol When I went in the house - Wife said wow , you must have really wore him out - it was all mental .

Take time and look over lots of treads on here with want others do with there Dobermans - Meadowcat - 79 , Lady Di , Rosemary do lots of OB and Nose work training - Chesa I believe does rat hunts with hers , Lot's of Show dogs on here too .

Best of luck !

Doc
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:23 AM
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Small kids and puppies (particularly Dobe puppies who are big, busy and almost always need "no bite" training are kind of disasters in the making.

A friend who always seemed to have a toddler and a Dobe puppy at the same time through four kids and four puppies used an ex-pen to keep both the puppies safe from the kids and the kids safe from the puppies--one or the other was always in the pen unless there was an adult around to make sure that there weren't any unfortunate interactions between puppy and kid going on.

As far as recalls go--at six months as several people have already said--that's a baby--and I don't expect my puppies to be 100% at anything until they are older than that.

And I'm another one who really doesn't like flexi's. I don't train on them and I don't walk dogs on them.

My training for fool proof recalls is a pocket full of treats and never calling the puppy unless it's already on it's way to me. So the puppies are never out of a fenced yard until much later than 6 months. When I do start training for 100% the puppy is usually somewhat older and I am always sort of training for Obedience/Rally I train on a 6 foot leather leash and graduate to off lead work from there.

I'd also recommend getting the puppy into some class type training and I prefer classes aimed at competition since the aim is usually to have a dog that will come when called every time.

I don't use prongs on puppies at that age although I've had some dogs who were always walked on prongs because of unusually high prey drive and deer in the vicinity.

I also don't usually ever use e-collars but there have been exceptions--my Australian Shepherd was trained to the eye teeth but would still run and refuse to come off leash--ultimately we used a e-collar on him. That worked but I only ever used one on one of the Dobes. And I don't think you can't get 100% reliable recalls with Dobes without using an e-collar But at 6 months I don't think I'd want to be using an e-collar on a six month old puppy.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome awesome advice everyone, I really appreciate it!

Couple of clarifying statements. I do want 100% recall eventually, but do not expect it at this time. I am actually very relieved to hear that we are in fact a little ahead of the game and not behind. I also realize that young kids and puppies are difficult together, but I am relatively attached to both at this point, and my wife and I are aware and committed to making it work. We do have a large fenced in area along with the dog run which is about 20' by 50'.

With that in mind here are some changes I plan on making:

1. enroll in puppy class, I also think the Fenzi class looks good, anyone recommend it?
2. no more prong on flexi lead. I will buy her a harness for the flexi and only prong on my short lead

Any further recommendations?

SC
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 12:19 PM
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Another tip...never EVER yell at a puppy or dog once they've come to you, even if it took them 10 minutes to answer your call. A come should ALWAYS be fun. If I know they really really know what I'm saying, I might yell at them while they are actually ignoring me, but the minute they turn toward me (even when they are still far away), I switch to praise and cheer them on in to me.

I would not use an e-collar unless my dog knew exactly what was required, was mature enough to have some impulse control and ability to concentrate, and was blowing me off. Dobes can take up to 2 years, even, before their brains and impulse control have arrived though the girls usually settle a little younger than the guys do, so there IS hope on the horizon.

Someone else has already said this, but also...do not call a dog when she is in the learning/training stage unless you can make sure she has to come even if she ignores you. That generally means that at this point she should be on a leash or a long line when you call her with a formal "come". If it is time for play to end, I usually just go over and get them, or I happily invite them to come see me--but I don't say the word "Come". That word is reserved for times when I want a formal "You must come and sit in front of me NOW."
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdoc77 View Post
I also realize that young kids and puppies are difficult together, but I am relatively attached to both at this point...
Oh come on...surely there are times when you'd like to dump those kids and just keep the puppy. LOL
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 12:30 PM
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I can pretty much give the blanket recommendation that anything taught at FDSA is worth looking into. Not only do you get excellent instruction, you get access to a wider Facebook community, with a main school group as well as student discussion groups for most classes.


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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 12:47 PM
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I still hate flexis, even with a harness.

If the dog is out to the end of it, or decides to make a sudden dash, you really have no control. The only way to stop them is to grab that little cord, which basically means you're in for some rope burn, and you're still not likely to keep her from running out to the end because it is so hard to keep it from sliding through your hand. If it tangles around the dog or your hand and the dog decides to take off, one of you will get hurt.

A flat leather or nylon leash, or a soft rope (lunge line) is much easier to grab and to control.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
I still hate flexis, even with a harness.

If the dog is out to the end of it, or decides to make a sudden dash, you really have no control. The only way to stop them is to grab that little cord, which basically means you're in for some rope burn, and you're still not likely to keep her from running out to the end because it is so hard to keep it from sliding through your hand. If it tangles around the dog or your hand and the dog decides to take off, one of you will get hurt.

A flat leather or nylon leash, or a soft rope (lunge line) is much easier to grab and to control.
AMEN!

I also don't use nylon leashes--they are hard on the hands. For leashes I like a well broken in rawhide and a soft rope (yes, like a lunge line) for distance work.

dobebug
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
I still hate flexis, even with a harness.

If the dog is out to the end of it, or decides to make a sudden dash, you really have no control. The only way to stop them is to grab that little cord, which basically means you're in for some rope burn, and you're still not likely to keep her from running out to the end because it is so hard to keep it from sliding through your hand. If it tangles around the dog or your hand and the dog decides to take off, one of you will get hurt.

A flat leather or nylon leash, or a soft rope (lunge line) is much easier to grab and to control.
Quote:
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AMEN!

I also don't use nylon leashes--they are hard on the hands. For leashes I like a well broken in rawhide and a soft rope (yes, like a lunge line) for distance work.

dobebug
I, on the other hand (no pun intended) can only use a nylon or cotton leash because I will sometimes have an allergic reaction to leather, especially the latigo leather that so many leashes are made of. Hard to hold onto a leash when you hands are so swollen that you can barely bend your fingers.

Flexi type leashes are okay in some circumstances. I know several people that like them for some nosework searches, and someone else who uses them for walking her well trained, but deaf, dogs. However, in most cases they are more of a hindrance than a help. You really have to be on top of things, and be proactive rather than reactive when using a Flexi. Even the all-tape ones can give you a nasty burn or cut if they get wrapped around a leg or hand.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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AMEN!

I also don't use nylon leashes--they are hard on the hands. For leashes I like a well broken in rawhide and a soft rope (yes, like a lunge line) for distance work.

dobebug
Two quick questions...

1. What length lead do you use?
2. What is the difference between a retractable lead you can set the length of (I have a stop on my retractable that I can set at any length) and a lead. By the way this is a real and honest question, I am NOT trying to be confrontational or argumentative I really do want to know...

Thanks in advance,

SC

By the way I went to the Fenzi site and I think this will be a great resource for us, thanks for the heads up!
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:40 PM
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Two quick questions...

1. What length lead do you use?
2. What is the difference between a retractable lead you can set the length of (I have a stop on my retractable that I can set at any length) and a lead. By the way this is a real and honest question, I am NOT trying to be confrontational or argumentative I really do want to know...

Thanks in advance,

SC

By the way I went to the Fenzi site and I think this will be a great resource for us, thanks for the heads up!

1. For everyday walks, I use a 6' lead. I've used a 4' lead at times for formal obedience, but don't care for them as much as I do the 6'.

2. To me, a "lead" or "leash" is typically up to 6' long. Any longer and it becomes a "line" or "long line" depending on the length. I have a narrow 10' line that we use for nosework. It's too long and skinny for just walking, and too short for any real distance training, but perfect for nosework. If I want to work on distance behaviors, or just let my dog have a lot more room, I will use a 20' or 30' long line.

Yes, a retractable lead has the stopper mechanism. However, they can either fail to engage or else get stuck and not release. In the first instance, your dog can wind up way further out that you intended. In the second instance, you all of a sudden have a very thin line or cord with a dangerous amount of slack in it. If that catch doesn't get unstuck, and fast, you run the risk of a nasty rope burn (at best) or possibly a serious cut, or even an amputated digit, if you get tangled in it and your dog takes off again. Not saying that you won't get injured while using a regular long line, but the very narrowness of the line or cord in a retractable lead makes them more dangerous.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:46 PM
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Tex - Good questions - I guess as long as it was locked there would no difference - I use a 6 foot most of the time - I do have a longer one I use sometimes on walks where I can let them be dogs and sniff around some - it's more like 8 feet or so .

Boy she sure is cute
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:48 PM
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I've just never been able to manage a flexi very well - they don't work for me. Like Bug said, some people seem to be able to work them - I'm clearly not one of them. And I have seen some bad injuries (on people, usually, not the dog), so given my ineptitude, I simply don't use them. I'm very good at handling a long line, though, even when I have to "reel it in" quickly, so I'd much rather use one of those. I prefer leather, although I have some that are biothane. Depends on which dog I'm using it with. I have lengths from 10-30 feet, as Rosemary said. I think you just have to get used to using them - the long line "dance" of stepping over them, around them, under them, shortening and lengthening them...all of that. I just prefer it. Most of mine are 3/8 or 1/2 an inch.


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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:53 PM
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I use a 6 foot 1 inch ...leather leash.
We use a 15 foot lead when doing nosework or when I want him to just have more walk around room for sniffing.
Once your pup gets to full size you will find they are very powerful especially when running. I learned the hard way with a retractable with my first doberman.
One of my instructors lost a finger as it got tangled in a retractable.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:54 PM
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This is my GSD on a 30' long line. Would she have taken a wild hare, and decide to dart after a squirrel or something, and wind up in the traffic? Well, we were working, but she is.... fluffy... and it wasn't a chance I wanted to take.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 05:10 PM
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but she is.... fluffy...and it wasn't a chance I wanted to take.

"fluffy" LOL. Is that the same as a "dumb blonde" human?? Or are we just...um...attention compromised? "Oh, look, a chicken!!"

(Not wishing to cast any aspersions on any blondes out there in our readership...some of my best friends are blonde )
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 05:43 PM
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"fluffy" LOL. Is that the same as a "dumb blonde" human?? Or are we just...um...attention compromised? "Oh, look, a chicken!!"

(Not wishing to cast any aspersions on any blondes out there in our readership...some of my best friends are blonde )
Well...... lets just say that she can be hard to motivate and is easily distracted..... I've got more than one video of her doing nosework where she has to stop and bark at I don't know what in the middle of the search.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 05:45 PM
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Hi Texdoc,

1. I think all of my class, and training as for Obedience and Rally or ring are 6 foot leashes. That is a size requirement dictated in competition by AKC and ASCA(as I recall--it's been years since I had a dog in any ASCA trials.

And I should add that I said rawhide--but they are actually latigo (which is what Rosemary is allergic to--and that's a very legitimate reason for using nylon but I don't have that problem.)

2.The stops on retractable (flexi) leads are NOT in my opinion, reliable and I have friends who have had dogs break those stops (and the entire retractable assembly when they saw something they wanted to go after (squirrel in the case of a breeder I know who had used flexi's for years and taunted those of us who didn't because they were so "handy" for exercising a dog). And if that wasn't enough I also caught a dog for an elderly man and helped him up where he'd done a painful face plant in a graveled parking lot at a dog show. Weimeraner was to blame that time.

I didn't think you were being either confrontational or argumentative. I think somotiimes you need to have seen some these disasters to realize just how bad they can be.

And I think other people have also pointed out the more common one where when a dog on a flexi starts to bolt and the handler does an automatic "grab" for the string when the stop didn't set and ends up with lacerations of the palm that have to be surgically repaired. The "tape" flexi's can do the same thing --they are a flat nylon braid and the edge can lacerate you too.

I think the last time I used a flexi was when I was walking my Aussie with my handler who was walking a Dobe puppy (about 11 months old but still definitely a puppy) when a loose dog went hurtling by us in the field--her puppy fipped out and ran also--jerking the flexi out of her hand--the line retracted as soon as there was no pressure on it--wacked the puppy in the butt which caused him to put on the afterburners trying to outrun the "thing" that was attacking him from the rear.

By that time my Aussie thought something fun was going on and hit the end of his flexi yanking it out of my hand and went after the Doberman puppy. Since at that time my Aussie could not be caught if he was loose I was running and yelling at him--I got lucky the body of the flexi got caught in some downed fencing and I reclaimed the Aussie before he got loose again the Dobe had run down the entire length of the field and we found him in the van--trying his best to get into his crate where he was sure he'd be safe.

There are just so many ways that the advantages of a flexi are far outweighed by the potential problems some of which can do far more damage than just a loose dog.

I've never done nosework and someone told me that their traking coach used a flexi when working her tracking dog--I use a regulation 40 foot leash with a 20 foot marker (that's AKC regulation for a trial.) And I make them out of 3/8 dacron double braid (a type that has a fuzzy cover) and I use them for training since there is a learning curve on handlng the line and if you are after a title you'll have to be able to deal with that and the dog.

For the long leash I use in training for distance for an Obedience type recall I use an old 50 foot clothes line which is cotton (I don't even know if they still make them in cotton) and soft and fuzzy from wear and tear.

The Fenzi training via site has gotten enough rave reviews that I think it's good, very helpful and recommend it. And classes with other dogs are always helpful if the instructor is at all competent.

Good luck and make it fun....

dobebug
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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OK you guys rock. I feel like I have a better feel for when and how to use the retractable. One thing that was said was how much she will grow and how powerful she will be at that time. My hope is that by then I will no longer need the longer line. I really appreciate everyone's input today, I feel much better about where she is as a puppy and what my expectations of her should be. I have reached out to a few local Doberman folks and they are not sure about any particular puppy classes so I may increase my search to the dfw and Austin area...

Thanks again and any further input is greatly appreciated!!!

SC
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