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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Same Sex Aggression

Question here for those who have multiple dobermans in the home at the same time. We have heard about dobermans and same sex aggression. How prevalent is it, does it depend on the individual dog/s, ages, etc.

Our quandry- We have an 8 year old male who is a mixed breed, 75pounds. He and our late female doberman grew up together. There were never any issues between the two. We are hopefully in 2020, getting another female doberman. We would like to have 2 dobermans. How do we do make that work?

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 08:49 AM
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Good morning Pam ! We have always had females here on the farm and they got along fine - then after Kasia passed , we got Mr. Business . I was worried about him being bigger and stronger and if there would be a problem between him and Ali - I asked the breeder about my worries , I never will forget that moment - Cindy looked at us and said don't you worry about Ali , She will take care of herself and she did - it didn't take long for Mr. B to have high respect for her , sometimes it was not pretty as little Doberson would come running to ole dad crying . He brought on a lot of that himself - ding , donging her and most times she had gave him fair warning , but he did not pick up what she was putting down , lol Like your 2 - they became best of best friends .

Now from what I have read on hear having 2 males is a different ball game - John 4x4 and Aunt Bug can tell you much better than me on that thing

Have a good one !
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 09:39 AM
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I always had Bacchus with a neutered male small dog (lhasa or shih tzuX) and no problems. I had enforced a NO BITE-NO FIGHT rule from the very beginning with Bacc but I was watchful in the beginning and shut anything down the second the "vibes" started. I ENFORCED that that behavior would not be tolerated in the home or in public. He had been jumped 5 times at trials but he was never the aggressor. He certainly defended himself but never started it.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 09:52 AM
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So, are you planning to have three dogs total, two Dobermans and your male mix? If so, I'd probably plan on two female Dobermans. Same sex aggression is more common in male Dobermans, and it doesn't matter if the other male is a different breed, or neutered. The only possibility I'd consider if I was adding a male Doberman (down the line) would be if the male currently in your house was elderly enough that he was likely to be deceased by the time the male Doberman matured (age 2-3). It's really hard to predict which males might become same-sex aggressive as adults...you won't see it in a puppy. Even if you choose a male from lines that tend to get along with other males, it doesn't guarantee anything, so you'd have to be prepared to live a crate and rotate lifestyle. It's possible two bitches may also not get along - it does happen - but it's less common.

Neutering, training, etc. does not have an affect on TRUE same-sex aggression. Once you've seen it happen, anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't really seen it. The switch has been flipped, and the dogs are NOT safe together.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Neutering, training, etc. does not have an affect on TRUE same-sex aggression. Once you've seen it happen, anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't really seen it. The switch has been flipped, and the dogs are NOT safe together.
Reading MC's post made me realize I had forgotten to mention that in NO WAY would I have brought another male Doberman into the household with Bacc. That would have been asking for trouble. The dogs that lived with Bacc were always small dogs. I can't imagine trying to break up two 90#+ battling Dobermans determined to kill each other. No one wins a dogfight.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:00 PM
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I would love to have a male Doberman of my own, but with my daughters male Doberman and since we do so much together with our dogs, I would not even risk bringing a second male into the scene.
I do agree SSA can occur with bitches, also, but as MC mentioned in her post, it is less likely. We have not seen it happen with our two, but we are still very aware it could happen and so remain on guard.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:11 PM
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I can't imagine trying to break up two 90#+ battling Dobermans


Boy that's no kidding ! It's bad enough trying to keep just one in the bath tub ! Which just a few moments ago Mr. Business had enough bath time and jumped right into my arms - I'm just as wet as he was at 90 + - Ole doc needs to hit the weights ! 2 ??? No way
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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MeadowCat thanks for the information. Our thoughts are if the most common ssa is male to male, we would for sure get two females. Do you feel we should stagger the ages a bit?

Pam
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamlocke View Post
MeadowCat thanks for the information. Our thoughts are if the most common ssa is male to male, we would for sure get two females. Do you feel we should stagger the ages a bit?

Pam
Oh, YES. Never two pups together (take a read through this: https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-c...-syndrome.html). Personally, I find 3 years apart to be ideal. The older dog is pretty solid in their training by then, and you have a lot more time for training the new pup. The older dog isn't SO much older they aren't interested in playing. Plus, it's hard to lose two dogs really close together...it could still happen, of course, but when ages are staggered it's less likely.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Meadow Cat thanks for reposting that link. I now remember reading that some time ago. Have had a lot if information passing through this head lately Our male has been very needy and lonely since Zuri passed away. We don't want to go too long without adding another to the pack. We spend lots of time with him but do feel as though he needs a canine companion. We are hoping the addition of a puppy won't stress him too much though.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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I'm one of the people who have kept multiple males (mostly intact Dobermans) successfully. I don't recomend it in general. I've got years of experience with Dobes (got my first in 1959) and I can spot trouble coming a mile away between two males. I'm very careful about choosing puppies and sometimes I've been growing out a puppy for a breeder and by the time they decided the other puppy was the one they wanted to keep for show I was certain enough of the temperament of the one I had that I opted for 2nd pick--worked for me.

I also had an Australian Shepherd, who for nearly 13 years, lived with and got a long with all of the male Dobes.

But--the bottom line with the situation you describe, I think a bitch would be a better choice. Same sex aggression is possible between two bitches but more likely with two males.

I always keep at least 2 years and as much a 4 years between dogs--that way you are getting dogs who are resilient enough to interact together but you aren't trying to train two puppies at the same time. All of my puppies who were raised with older dogs learned desirable behaviors from the old guys. (Although I have a friend who tells me the only thing puppies in her house learn from the older dogs is BAD behavior--but I think that's her problem--not the dogs).

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 02:28 PM
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Yes, puppies really do learn well from older dogs. You call your adult over to sit and get a treat....puppy tags along and watches big guy get something special. You can see the wheels turning around in their little BB brains. If you kinda do a hand signal at the same time, which I just do automatically after years of dogs, they get that hand signal down pat without ever really been taught it.

We used to play race games---whoever sits or downs first gets the treat first. Competition of that sort can work wonders.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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OMG! They're like synchronized swimmers!!
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 03:06 PM
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LOL I like it at the end when they both turn their heads to the cameraman and back to me.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 10:19 PM
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I'd never ever ever have two male Dobermans together - but know that some people (like Bug) have done so successfully. I have had SSA with two sets of bitches, and while I manage it, it is stressful. I currently have one almost 12 year old male, and two bitches that are 6 years apart in age. The two girls do occasionally get into it, and we've had some nasty fights. I'm hoping to never do two bitches together again either. That pretty much means only having two dogs.... which is the ideal number IMHO.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 12:33 PM
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I have had 2 females who were staggered in age pretty far (about 8 yrs - the young one we adopted at 1 1/2). They got into it several times...more like a disagreement than a fight...and it was competing for affection. Like MC mentioned...you will definitely know if it was a real fight. After making it clear that it wasn't acceptable behavior, the quarreling stopped too. They were free roam in the house the whole time, even when we weren't home. No problems at all up to the point that Kaili passed at a month shy of 13.

We now have an American Bulldog that has taken her place (a little over a year old) along with a male Dobe who is about 3 1/2. I don't trust the AB and the female when we aren't there, so the AB gets crated when we are gone, not to mention she still chews stuff. The female Dobe is very bitchy in her "old" age almost 8 and will snap and snarl (more like a warning) at the other 2 if they even play to close to her and not interested in playing herself. The AB heeds her warning for now, but I don't want to see that switch flipped. From what I have heard, once females hate each other, it might be less common, but is usually worst than the males, but I can't confirm this personally.

The male will badger her for the fun of it sometimes like it's a game. He is faster and stronger so he makes his own rules with her. Funny to watch sometimes. Like a bigger brother making trouble to the younger one just to get a rise out of him.

Hope you have the same good luck as others have had.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2019, 03:36 PM
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Hm.... I'm always very intrigued by this conversation

I have 2 male dobermans and 1 female. The boys lived together first though and did so happily for several years before we added their sister. While I support the argument that the smartest and safest course of action is to have a boy and a girl but my troubles thus far has mostly been with my female and when we foster other females. Lots of....sass.... so I think their personalities are really what make it work.

Now all the being said, Merrill, our "first" is now 6 and he definitely doesn't play nice with intact male dobes but seems alright with neutered males or puppies.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 02:31 PM
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I've wondered about this. We have a male/female Weimaraner combo. We are wanting to try a European working line Dobe for sport/competition down the road. Both intact still.
My male Weim 3.5 is much more mellow/laid back, the bitch is the alpha really at almost 2....I read about SSA with male dobe's...we had figured if we got another dog down the line we would go with another male as she is so dominant...but it might change things if it's a Dobe I'm guessing.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-08-2020, 09:12 PM
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I have had 3 dobes since 1977...all different.

Tanya was medium prey drive.............super smart

Amy was soft prey drive...............human smart / understood real threat, always a thinker // she had superb filters and used Logic.

Kelly was super high prey drive (off the map).....red zone switch, as a young puppy
- extremely had to flick off, for 10 weeks old
- slow to train & change behavior // brain logic shuts off, when she got ramp'ed up

^^ FM Kelly at 10 weeks old & sons little 8# Male YorkiePoo (Trevor @ 6 years old)...both Alpha dogs.
- both wanted to fight (Trevor was the size of a cat) // and little dog grew up with previous Amy...perfect together
- Kelly dried to injure little Trevor, when doberman pup was 5 months old
- took 1.5 years, before Kelly and little T-Man would sleep together
- we supervised 24/7 when little dog was over..for first few years
- now perfect together (Kelly is 7 and Trevor is 13 y/o), in our no-crate & free roam home // but we LAID THE LAW DOWN
- so we had one OPPOSITE SEX AGGRESSION (O-S-A)

Temperament Evaluation (Low - Medium - High) is Key to accessing RISK, in a multiple dog home.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 01-08-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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