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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Extra teeth

Not sure where to put this. Sort of a general question, I guess.

Nadia passed the Breed Survey of the United Doberman Club this past Sunday. I will be making a thread detailing our epic adventure, but I'm waiting on pictures. Anyhow, as her dentition was being examined the judge said her teeth were all there, her bite was perfect and... in fact she has 43 teeth! She has an extra molar. I cracked a joke and said I guess with us doing bitework it's good she has a spare.

But that did make me wonder if extra teeth are a phenomenon that is documented by breeders and if we know whether that is a genetic characteristic or a fluke. Nadia's only other female littermate who was the breeder's pick was eventually rehomed due to a missing tooth or missing teeth. And this I know missing teeth are genetic. Interesting that you'd get one with teeth missing and one with extra teeth in a same litter. I wonder if the two things are at all related.

Maybe Nadia stole that molar in-utero cause she figured she'd be needing to use it more than her sis ?
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 12:42 PM
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I don't know if breeders track extra teeth nor do I know the underlying genetics of extra vs missing teeth but my girl, Tali, had an extra molar on both sides, top and bottom. The vet told me after finding them during the one teeth cleaning Tali ever had; she was about 7 yrs old.

The vet took photos and gave me a copy of them but I've misplaced them now or I'd share them.



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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brw1982 View Post
I don't know if breeders track extra teeth nor do I know the underlying genetics of extra vs missing teeth but my girl, Tali, had an extra molar on both sides, top and bottom. The vet told me after finding them during the one teeth cleaning Tali ever had; she was about 7 yrs old.

The vet took photos and gave me a copy of them but I've misplaced them now or I'd share them.
Very cool! So she had 46 teeth total then, that's wild!
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post

Maybe Nadia stole that molar in-utero cause she figured she'd be needing to use it more than her sis ?
If she is anything like Capri was, she would be perfectly comfortable with stealing anything another dog has. Poor Kip.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 04:20 PM
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There is still a difference of opinion when it comes to extra teeth. Most vet dentists will tell you that it is genetic but much less common than missing teeth and generally most of the specialists believe that the genetics is not the same and missing vs extra are not caused by the same gene pattern.

I had a male who had extra molars--in the bottom--generally referred to as 'popcorn teeth' because they are generally smaller that the molars in front of them. Pat and Judy Doniere disagreed about how to evaluate extra vs missing teeth. Both of them judged that dog when he was being shown. Judy ignored the extra molars. Pat looked in his mouth and said to the handler (Michelle Santana) "This dog has two extra molars..." Michelle didn't miss a beat--she said "Make up your mind, Pat--the last dog I showed you had one missing tooth and you complained about that--now you're complaining about this dog's extra molars--make up your mind!" The expression on Pat's face was priceless.

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Last edited by dobebug; 11-26-2019 at 04:29 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
There is still a difference of opinion when it comes to extra teeth. Most vet dentists will tell you that it is genetic but much less common than missing teeth and generally most of the specialists believe that the genetics is not the same and missing vs extra are not caused by the same gene pattern.

I had a male who had extra molars--in the bottom--generally referred to as 'popcorn teeth' because they are generally smaller that the molars in front of them. Pat and Judy Doniere disagreed about how to evaluate extra vs missing teeth. Both of them judged that dog when he was being shown. Judy ignored the extra molars. Pat looked in his mouth and said to the handler (Michelle Santana) "This dog has two extra molars..." Michelle didn't miss a beat--she said "Make up your mind, Pat--the last dog I showed you had one missing tooth and you complained about that--now you're complaining about this dog's extra molars--make up your mind!" The expression on Pat's face was priceless.

dobebug
How intriguing then that you've got an example of both in the same litter, and both bitches! As far as I know her finished littermate had 42. I'll never know for the others that went to pet homes.

Here the judge was Mr Ray Carlisle. He did not seem to be bothered by it nor did he fault her, and on the evaluation sheet he wrote that she had 42. The UDC permits up to 2 missing teeth, but since the standard is the same as AKC, it does not fault extra teeth, therefore I took it to mean that inso far as evaluating conformation the extra tooth was not relevant.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 03:58 PM
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My Louise had one extra pre molar and produced it in all 11 of her puppies. I think different judges look at extra teeth differently. Our standard calls for 42 teeth, so I guess technically, extra would be a fault. Most don't seem to care.

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