Dog Food Conundrum - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Doberman Related Chat If your post does not fit into any other category post here.

 15Likes
  • 4 Post By greenkouki
  • 2 Post By MeadowCat
  • 1 Post By LadyDi
  • 2 Post By dobebug
  • 2 Post By LadyDi
  • 3 Post By dobebug
  • 1 Post By MeadowCat
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
Dog Food Conundrum

I have read a multitude of posts on the dog food dilemma and I am more confused than ever.
I am getting my puppy in a few weeks and I want to feed mostly dry kibble, could do some canned or home prepped mixed in.
My concern is the possible grain free link to heart disease and now I am thinking I should feed a kibble with grain. But which one??
Most of the best rated brands are all grain free.
Should I mix a best brand grain free food with a kibble with grain? Just go with the grain?
And if so, which one?...they all have something "not great" in the ingredient list.
All comments are greatly appreciated!!
mybabyshai is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mybabyshai For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:27 PM
Super Moderator
 
greenkouki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,825
Location: SC

Gallery Pics: 77
Visit greenkouki's Gallery
Thanks: 19,611
Thanked 30,272 Times in 9,801 Posts
Images: 77
                     
Click here to find out how greenkouki became a supporter
There are plenty of quality kibbles not by the "big five" that are grain free but do not contain legumes and some of the other "red flag" ingredients for nutritional dcm. Also many super premium food companies do have foods with grain. My advice is to feed what the breeder is feeding for a few bags before you make a switch. I am currently feeding sport dog food but you will have to decide what to try (hopefully with some help from your breeder). The biggest DCM concern for dobes is not nutritional but genetic, so I hope you are purchasing your puppy from a reputable breeder who has the sire and dam health tested prior to breeding.
dobebug, 4x4bike ped, ECIN and 1 others like this.
greenkouki is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to greenkouki For This Useful Post:
dobebug (08-09-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019), melbrod (08-08-2019), Rosemary (08-08-2019)
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 07:09 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,053
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 46,523
Thanked 56,020 Times in 15,374 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
I personally feed Proplan. My dogs are doing great on it. I know a lot of Doberman people who have fed it for many, many years with very long lived dogs. I feel comfortable with it.
dobebug and ECIN like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-10-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 07:30 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,619
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,125
Thanked 12,876 Times in 4,556 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Via gk: "My advice is to feed what the breeder is feeding for a few bags before you make a switch."

Yup^^^

McCoy's breeder was feeding and recommended Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy. I trust her, so that's what I did until he was almost 1 1/2 years old. Never an issue. I moved him to Orijen, then Acana. Same thing. Loved it... Thrived on it.

Currently, at almost 5yo., He is being fed Purina Pro Plan Savor (Salmon and Rice). Again...All is great.

I was pretty lucky with this boy and his base kibble.

You are just going to have to roll with it! LOL.

John
Portland OR
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019), MeadowCat (08-08-2019)
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:34 AM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,702
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 21,021
Thanked 7,520 Times in 2,991 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Yes it is all so overwhelming as you read the different reports on dog food.
Yeah your new pup will have enough new changes so stick with the current food until things settle down for the pupper....no harm in that.
I was using a grain free food Earthborn.....but recently changed to Pro Plan Focus Chicken......Hoss loves the food.....and he is producing nice solids poopers. Dang the things we talk about!!! LOL
Anyway ......all the media was freaking me out to so I just decided to go with the knowledge on this forum........some of these folks have used this product for 30-40 years .........our corn farmer spoke of all the regulation Purina goes through as they accept corn....sanitation testing etc.
Some folks will say Purina is not good.....but I have decided to focus on other things like keeping my dogs weight down, healthy and safe exercise.....these are the things that I can control to enhance a longer life for Hoss.......good luck with your new pup....looking forward to some pics.
dobebug likes this.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (08-09-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019)
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:59 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,540

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,203
Thanked 21,062 Times in 5,719 Posts
                     
Oooo--good points LadyDi--I'm one of the long time owners who has been feeding pretty much the same food for many years despite the fact that it sometimes isn't high in the rating.

But the bottom line is that in some cases I know that the rating is done by folk who mean well but really don't have a lot of knowledge about what is really important when it comes to dog food.

Many years ago a vet gave me some really good advice about choosing kibble. "Buy it from a big company, one who maintains a colony of dogs who eat the things they make and do well on it or it never sees the marketplace." And many years later another vet said that scoring well on invented testing wasn't always the way to go--he said pretty much the same thing the first vet had told me. Stick with the bigger companies who use nutritionists to first develop food formulas and then to evaluate if the food does what it was intended to do for the dog. And always see if the dog actually likes the food and looks good when he's been eating it for awhile.

So I stick with the big manufacturers who sometimes get a bad rap about food which often turns out to be for pretty nonsensical reasons. I've fed Iams and Eukanuba (which is actually Iams upper echelon label), Hills, Royal Canin and Purina.

My fall back food for many years now has been Purine, ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach (Salmon and Rice)--almost all the dogs I've owned or raised have done well on this (dispite the corn, and other stuff that various peple have objected to) their eyes are bright, their coat is shiny, they carry appropriate weight without having to feed ridiculous amounts of food and their poop is compact and solid (Lady Di--if you thing we talk about some strange stuff--you should sit in at a table of dog show folk at lunch some time).

This is a fairly medium formula--but my experience especially with Dobermans has been that they actually do better on a moderate formula than many of the high powered formulas. Particularly if you are feeding puppies of young dogs. My older dogs seem to be able to eat anything without problems but not so true of the younger guys.

GreenKouki brought up a really good point in view of the recent findings about DCM and grain free food. Dobermans DCM is a known genetic form and while the cardiac testing goes on and there are some Dobes with DCM who were on grain free kibble the testing hasn't shown a link that would also indicate that there is a taurine deficiency.

Most of the studies mention that the grain free problems may be more related to micro ingredients that aren't present in the grain free kibbles and that's what may cause problems. But all of this testing is really in its infancy at this point.

dobebug
ECIN and LadyDi like this.
dobebug is online now  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-10-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019), MeadowCat (08-09-2019), Rosemary (08-09-2019)
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 01:05 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,702
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 21,021
Thanked 7,520 Times in 2,991 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Yeah....
For the novice dog owner like me.....all of the recent food science is overwhelming........so I figure ..........Purina has the big bucks and wants to keep selling food to us for a long time so I will go with it.......shoot I did not realize how soft Hoss's poops were till I recently changed to Purina Pro Plan ...............now dark and has the texture of pellets ......yep I check his poop daily for thingys that look like rice !!!!! LOL
Oh......just as a special treat.........I will have to make sure to send all of you a nice enlarged picture Hoss's weekend production !!!!!! I am just so funny!!! I love me!!!
ECIN and mybabyshai like this.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-10-2019)
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 01:40 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,540

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,203
Thanked 21,062 Times in 5,719 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Yeah....
For the novice dog owner like me.....all of the recent food science is overwhelming........so I figure ..........Purina has the big bucks and wants to keep selling food to us for a long time so I will go with it.......shoot I did not realize how soft Hoss's poops were till I recently changed to Purina Pro Plan ...............now dark and has the texture of pellets ......yep I check his poop daily for thingys that look like rice !!!!! LOL
Oh......just as a special treat.........I will have to make sure to send all of you a nice enlarged picture Hoss's weekend production !!!!!! I am just so funny!!! I love me!!!
I heard this story from a Purina rep--way back--a breeder judge and I were talking about the GSD judging when the Purina rep stopped by and joined the conversation--the judge asked him about the new dog food they were working on and the rep ended up telling us, not about the new dog food but about their forey into Flamingo food.

Now Purina had been making specialized diets for quite awhile--for circus and zoo animals--for lab animals and of course for our pets. There is a race track (you probably know which one it is LadyDi--I can't remember and it was a long time ago and I've never even lived close to Florida) in Florida who has flamingos in the center of the track area--along with a man made (I think) pond. They live there year around and are maintained by the track.. But they had a problem--the flamingo weren't pink any more--it takes a certain amount of a certain kind of small pink shrimp to keep them pink and they wanted Purina to develop a food they could feed their flamingos during the winter months when the shrimp weren't present in the local waters.

And Purina did it--it took almost a year but they developed a feed (called it Flamingo Chow) containing the shrimp and I think they still make it. It made news headlines--Purina is obviously attentive to public opinion as well as their bottom line.

You are too funny and we all love you--if you are really hunting for those little grain of rice like things the other place to look is in the dogs bed--after they dry up they look a lot like sesame seeds (now we've fixed it so no one will ever eat rice (in any form) or sesame cookies again).

dobebug
ECIN, LadyDi and mybabyshai like this.
dobebug is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-10-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-09-2019), Rosemary (08-09-2019)
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
Thank you so much for your response. I researched breeders and indeed found a wonderful reputable breeder who monitors her dogs, including echocardiograms and Holtor monitoring. She has not had any of her dogs with DCD, thankfully.
I have spent 100+ hours looking at kibble brands...that's why I turned to this forum...I am overwhelmed and just want to know what other people are feeding (brand names) that doesn't make me have to get a second job when I just want to spend time with my dogs. My breeder is feeding a wonderful dog food from Australia!
mybabyshai is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mybabyshai For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-10-2019)
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
Thank you kindly!!!
mybabyshai is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mybabyshai For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-10-2019)
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
Thank you soooo much!
mybabyshai is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mybabyshai For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-10-2019)
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
Thank you...y'all are making me feel much better!
mybabyshai is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mybabyshai For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (08-10-2019)
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:53 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,619
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,125
Thanked 12,876 Times in 4,556 Posts
Images: 9
                     
via dobebug: "GreenKouki brought up a really good point in view of the recent findings about DCM and grain free food. Dobermans DCM is a known genetic form and while the cardiac testing goes on and there are some Dobes with DCM who were on grain free kibble the testing hasn't shown a link that would also indicate that there is a taurine deficiency".

Our only dog to die from DCM related issues, was never on a grain free diet.

Still... The recent studies on diet involved DCM is the only reason I switched McCoy from Acana Prairie to Purina ProPlan.

It may turn out to amount to nothing where Dobermans are concerned. But, WTH... Since my youngest will eat anything and do well on it, why not?

John
Portland Or

Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 08-09-2019 at 11:56 PM.
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
ECIN (08-10-2019), LadyDi (08-10-2019), MeadowCat (08-10-2019)
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 09:23 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,053
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 46,523
Thanked 56,020 Times in 15,374 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
via dobebug: "GreenKouki brought up a really good point in view of the recent findings about DCM and grain free food. Dobermans DCM is a known genetic form and while the cardiac testing goes on and there are some Dobes with DCM who were on grain free kibble the testing hasn't shown a link that would also indicate that there is a taurine deficiency".

Our only dog to die from DCM related issues, was never on a grain free diet.

Still... The recent studies on diet involved DCM is the only reason I switched McCoy from Acana Prairie to Purina ProPlan.

It may turn out to amount to nothing where Dobermans are concerned. But, WTH... Since my youngest will eat anything and do well on it, why not?

John
Portland Or
Bold mine. That's how I feel, John. Given that I know many breeders and long time owners (like Bug) who have fed Proplan with good results and long lived dogs for many many years (like, 30+ years), it seems silly to me NOT to feed a food my dogs are doing well on right now while research is being done to figure out what's going on. Just my feelings, but it's what works for me.
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-10-2019), dobebug (08-10-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019)
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 11:38 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,540

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,203
Thanked 21,062 Times in 5,719 Posts
                     
Well, STJ and MeadowCat have discovered my basic reason for feeding the Purina ProPlan kibbles--my dogs do great on them, they look good, they feel good I don't have mountains of poop to pick up and miraculously they have survived on it--realistically a good many of my dogs have had DCM in their later years but I've actually only lost two dogs (my very first--CHF in 1968, and a 9 year old to sudden death in 2013) The other Dobes were like Toad who certainly has DCM at 13 years and 8 months but doesn't seem to be about to die from it.

And <grin> they seem to like it a lot--I've been using it for training treats for years...

dobebug
dobebug is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (08-10-2019), ECIN (08-10-2019), MeadowCat (08-10-2019), Rosemary (08-10-2019)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome