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post #51 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-01-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
Maybe your wife will have a change of heart. My hubby was like that with Coco. I let her on the couch and bed but he didn't. Now with Sugar it's a whole new world. They lay on the couch together and every morning when I go to work (he works afternoons) Sugar lays on the bed in my spot until they get up for the day!! I don't mind but quietly giggle to myself about 2nd child syndrome and all the rules going out the window
Well said Coco , lol. When Mr. Business came any rules left the building , then it only took a few days Ali said , what rules ? And she was laying on the couch
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post #52 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-01-2019, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Well said Coco , lol. When Mr. Business came any rules left the building , then it only took a few days Ali said , what rules ? And she was laying on the couch
I guess that is where they see us....so they think they are like us/family....so why not
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post #53 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-07-2019, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Today we had our last of 3 in a series of training. Last time we worked on having Mila do the behavior (sit, down, etc...) with out saying sit or down, use lures. This week we will now put the cue(command) in front of the lure to have her go into position.

We brought up to the trainer our experience with walking on a leash - Mila pulls constantly, we had a martingale collar on so I tried to pull and release (was shown that by first trainer many years ago). But that may be more of an interruption. In any case it did nothing to keep her from pulling.

So we worked on being able to turn her in a circle. First step was to put the collar up under her jaw (higher up on the neck)- like I see with show dogs etc... Control the head control the dog..... Mila did not like that at all! Would not move for anything - even just sitting still she would not even eat a treat. The trainer brought out cheese.

Trainer said I could take a small bite - as it is a good place to hold treats at times. I had a piece of cheese in my hand and she did walk. I bit another piece off and took it out to give to her and she shut down. Went into a sit mode and backed away. Trainer commented on that was strange - the moment my hand went to my mouth is when she reacted. We do not know what occurred with Mila prior but a supposition is perhaps she had experience where previous owner pulled up on her neck with the collar high and pulled her off her feet. But do not know.

Thus we will go baby steps to get her confident that it is not a bad experience. Slowly adapt go get it with collar high up with no tugging, toss the high value treat and let her go. Another exercise is to sit on a chair and show the treat in hand then close it to the "no" hand reach for her collar and then give "yes" hand letting her have the treat. Again working up to where the pressure on the collar is not a bad thing.

Otherwise she is doing good with training. I can do almost anything inside. That environment doesn't hold any distractions. I have worked out in the back yard. She can be lured into a down from stand. Easily sits. I can get her to come with just saying her name (now I have to say here first). Even at times when she is in full run. Not always but she is more often than not returning to me - particularly since I have the treats Understanding this is just the beginning and working with treats a lot.

Anyways - if any have other thoughts how to change her poor experience with a collar high up let me know. Also she definitely has been shown the wrong side of an electronic collar....we put that on her once and she sat down and trembled....so took that off.
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post #54 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-07-2019, 04:18 PM
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Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash? In terms of getting her to move on the leash when she shuts down and won't move, you may be able to just start off, don't look at her, don't pull on the leash--just invite her along, start walking away and see if she will come with you/behind you. Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.

I've had to do the showing that a grab for the collar and pull is not a bad thing with HDD--he's a little head and leash shy, and snatches at your hand whenever it goes past his head/ears to snap the leash on. We've done pretty much what you describe. The trainer told me to hold the bait in front of his nose and let him nibble at the same time as I'm holding the collar and putting some pressure on it, tugging on it (not trying to get him to move, just enough that he can feel it tightening and loosening a bit), reaching for his collar, petting the top of his head, sides of his nose, etc. He doesn't get the whole treat at a time, he just gets to nibble on it while I'm handling him. The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. And your trainer is right there with her eyeballs glued on you--it sounds like you're on the right track.
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Last edited by melbrod; 09-07-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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post #55 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-08-2019, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash? In terms of getting her to move on the leash when she shuts down and won't move, you may be able to just start off, don't look at her, don't pull on the leash--just invite her along, start walking away and see if she will come with you/behind you. Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.

I've had to do the showing that a grab for the collar and pull is not a bad thing with HDD--he's a little head and leash shy, and snatches at your hand whenever it goes past his head/ears to snap the leash on. We've done pretty much what you describe. The trainer told me to hold the bait in front of his nose and let him nibble at the same time as I'm holding the collar and putting some pressure on it, tugging on it (not trying to get him to move, just enough that he can feel it tightening and loosening a bit), reaching for his collar, petting the top of his head, sides of his nose, etc. He doesn't get the whole treat at a time, he just gets to nibble on it while I'm handling him. The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. And your trainer is right there with her eyeballs glued on you--it sounds like you're on the right track.
Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash?
I believe she will follow with out tugging on the leash - But when we started I only had my hand on the collar and tried to walk with her with some slight pressure. If I had a leash, she probably would have moved with me.

Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

Those sound like good ideas - Trainer did have me put the treat down by my leg....but since I was holding her with my hand - no room to let slack/pressure off her much, only the length of my arm. But will try with a long leash.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.
I agree!

The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

So far for the most part I have been giving her the treat directly - Will try the nibbling a bit more so her attention stays there longer vs. why do I have my hand on her collar. Plus once I give it to her I take my hand off then repeat. I can hold my hand there a bit longer with this technique as well.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. No I think you got it....I may have left a few details out as I was getting long winded. What you mentioned the trainer conveyed some as well. Plus you added a couple of ideas to try.

Thank you for some good ideas to try!
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post #56 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-08-2019, 09:37 AM
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I know I'm a bit late popping into this thread, but I think Mel is onto something - I'd really want to start working with her on the idea that touching her collar/pressure on her collar isn't a bad thing. Have you tried any clicker training with her? It might be very different/new to her and so it might not have any prior negative associations. If it were me, I would give it a shot - even if you didn't want to use a clicker, even something like "touch her collar, "Yes!" (in a happy, excited voice) and then treat, and working up to a little pressure, with the same "Yes!" You'd work from just a touch, to a little pressure, to slowly more, sustained pressure.

Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her, because she has such a negative response to it....you might get better results by simply using a LOT of rewards with her for being near you. I've often found that using canned food in a food tube so the dog can get fast, easily delivered rewards work really well - you can buy food tubes online at places like Amazon, or at camping stores like REI. For a dog that needs a really high rate of reinforcement it works well, plus a lot of dogs like a REALLY high value reward, and canned food can really fit the bill there.

Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

You might find with some of the other training that mixing up your rewards helps, too. Kind of a "trail mix" bag can keep dogs interested and working harder - some cooked chicken, steak, braunsweiger....when dogs don't seem motivated I try to really increase the value of rewards, go through a lot of different things to see what really gets them interested and wanting to work with me, and then I also try to have a mix, so they never know what they'll get. I find it makes them work harder, because they don't know if this time it's the piece of steak, or the piece of cheese, or the cheerio, or....

Just some different training thoughts that might help. Throwing them out in case they do.
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post #57 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-08-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I know I'm a bit late popping into this thread, but I think Mel is onto something - I'd really want to start working with her on the idea that touching her collar/pressure on her collar isn't a bad thing. Have you tried any clicker training with her? It might be very different/new to her and so it might not have any prior negative associations. If it were me, I would give it a shot - even if you didn't want to use a clicker, even something like "touch her collar, "Yes!" (in a happy, excited voice) and then treat, and working up to a little pressure, with the same "Yes!" You'd work from just a touch, to a little pressure, to slowly more, sustained pressure.

Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her, because she has such a negative response to it....you might get better results by simply using a LOT of rewards with her for being near you. I've often found that using canned food in a food tube so the dog can get fast, easily delivered rewards work really well - you can buy food tubes online at places like Amazon, or at camping stores like REI. For a dog that needs a really high rate of reinforcement it works well, plus a lot of dogs like a REALLY high value reward, and canned food can really fit the bill there.

Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

You might find with some of the other training that mixing up your rewards helps, too. Kind of a "trail mix" bag can keep dogs interested and working harder - some cooked chicken, steak, braunsweiger....when dogs don't seem motivated I try to really increase the value of rewards, go through a lot of different things to see what really gets them interested and wanting to work with me, and then I also try to have a mix, so they never know what they'll get. I find it makes them work harder, because they don't know if this time it's the piece of steak, or the piece of cheese, or the cheerio, or....

Just some different training thoughts that might help. Throwing them out in case they do.

Thanks MeadowCat - good ideas!

I will have to bump up the treats. Although she is a delicate eater. That is to say my wife gave her a couple of raw tenderloin scraps from last nights supper prep. Mila was easy to take the meat. I was thinking if that was Molly - might have lost a finger or two But she does respond better with the higher value such as cheese.

This morning, I sat on a chair and kept putting my hand on the collar and moved it up her neck as I let her nibble on the hard cookie type treats. Seemed ok. Repeated this quite a few times.

But when I stood up and had her on my left side she was sitting and with my hand on her collar up high...I could sense she was not very happy. So I dropped it and had the treat low and took a step. She did not move....I took a few more steps and she finally came and got the treat.

Quote:
Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her,
The trainer actually had us start all the training with no leash. Only time we put it on her was when she became stressed. Once leash was attached she actually would calm down a bit. Then when we discussed issue with leash walking - as we will have to have on a leash if we are in public places - is when we tried to understand the issue in our last session.

So I will look into the tube and better treats to keep her happy and interested to be near us. As she progresses from the back yard(fenced) then the front yard(non-fenced and new sights), and neighborhood walks....will try more public areas again.

I like the "trail mix" idea....time to do some cooking. We did save the rest of the meat scraps as well so I can start with those


Thanks again!
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post #58 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-10-2019, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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For a few weeks now, a strange reaction from Mila. I thought she would grow out of but hasn't.

When I come home from work in my uniform, she seems almost afraid....not quite but her tail tucks a bit. But once I change out all is good again. Tail happy ready for hugs, petting and some spins. I still have the T-shirt on and I haven't showered so the "work smell" should still be on.

Is it the uniform or the length of time I have been gone? Thinking of this weekend just putting on a uniform for the day....would that help or at least narrow down what she is unhappy about?
I meant to update on this - It does appear she is anxious of my uniform mostly. For a week or so now, I take off my shirt prior to coming into the house. That seems to have done the trick. She doesn't appear afraid or anxious....happy to see me. Early on I had shown her the shirt in my hand and she backed a way a bit. Strange. But 2 days ago she was up in the morning when I left to work and didn't seem to be as much of an issue. Maybe combination of time and shirt....

Anyways I will keep an eye on this and see if I observe anything else.
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post #59 of 59 (permalink) Unread 09-18-2019, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Another update on Mila

Today we took her to the vet to get her nails trimmed. Wanted to have a professional work with her first. Even with all the good information, I was a bit nervous to do it myself.

We have been squeezing and tapping on her nails last 2 weeks or so. Brought out the Dremel and left on floor, then moved up to having it on while she was in the room - and of course yummy treats while doing so

The nail trimmer person, also owns a dober so was very familiar with them. She sat on the floor with Mila first and talked and petted her and looked her over a bit.

Then she took her out to the other room to get her nails done. I could hear the Dremel at times and "good girl".

Procedure used to trim Mila's nails (as described since wasn't in the room).
1. She had Mila laying in her lap.
2. Used nail clippers to just nip off the tips - staying away from the quick.
3. Ran the Dremel on the nails briefly to get her used to it without a lot of discomfort.
4. Secret weapon! She covered Mila's head with a towel while in her lap....guess like a bird.

She said after a few times and Mila becomes more comfortable then we could try at home.

Mila seemed good so we were happy!
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