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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Cool Flying to europe

Hello all,
I am flying to Paris and I am planning to take Leonidas with me. He is 9 years old very well behave but high anxiety. For this reason I don't want him to go to a daycare for 12 days as last time he had anxiety for the 1st day. He is very attached to us.
He is an emotional support animal so he can fly in the cabine with us but it will be the 1st time. We did a 10 days road trip last year and Leo was with us with no problem at all in the car or at the hotel.

Is anyone has a similar experience flying with a dobie. Should have give him some natural anti-anxiety for him to be relax during the 7h. Please share your experience. We are leaving July 17.

Thank you and have a great summer!!!
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 01:48 PM
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Where are you flying from? The US or somewhere else? Is leaving him home with a sitter in your home not an option? I worry about his anxiety and age and if it wouldn't just be better for him to stay home. Sorry to be a downer.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 03:59 PM
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Just call ahead as most airlines after all the bite accidents stopped taking certain breeds and animals as Emotional support animals.
Since We fly frequently to Eu I can tell you it will be a torture for a dog. Lot more anxiety than a fist day in a daycare. The planes are full and barely any space for even your own leg.
Terminals are loud and crowded. Make sure your dog can handle that.

Hopefully everything goes smoothly for you and your doggy


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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:46 PM
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For the sake of the other passengers, please, PLEASE reconsider. This is a bite waiting to happen.

If you go ahead with this (and I hope you do not), please put him in a basket muzzle on the plane for the safety of others. Anxious dogs in unfamiliar situations are so very likely to bite. I would not ever consider putting an anxious dog in this situation. I would really reconsider leaving him home. You can talk to your vet about situational anxiety medication to help him adjust to you being gone, and he would be much safer, and would not be putting others in danger. You also have time to work on getting him used to his dog sitter.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:21 PM
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Airlines have really tightened their requirements for flying animals, especially larger dogs in the cabin (even service animals). I would suggest getting a trusted friend or a sitter that will stay home with him, especially at his age. You could also alternatively work with the boarding facility to get him more used to being there (visits with treats, day boarding, etc) so that his stay is less stressful.

I looked into flights with my dog this year since the drive to Nationals for us is about 24 hrs. Mya is in Top 20 conformation so we cannot miss that. I decided that driving is what would be in her best interest rather than flying (she would have to go cargo).
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 06:27 PM
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Hi DOBBILEO. And welcome from the Pacific NW

So... I have an 85+ lb. intact male. He is the most socialized Dobe that I have ever owned.

Regardless, for his comfort and that of the airline passengers, I would never fly with him in the cabin of a plane. He has a stress threshold that is quite high . Yet, on a plane with no escape, should that threshold be crossed on a crowded plane.... Well, you get the idea.

So, with respect to the other passengers... I don't know if you realize how many average people have an inordinate fear of Dobermans. I don't feel that it would be fair to make their flight any more uncomfortable than it already is. (BTW... I hate flying).

JMO

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 08:39 PM
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If you haven't started checking with airlines for their regulations on flying with a Doberman (in the cabin or in cargo) you are getting a late start.

I'm not in the clinic so I don't have access to the regulations on the Euro health certificate, required vaccines and test for France but I think you are already too late to get some of the paperwork done if you plan to leave on July 17.

I'd be looking for a friend wiling to come to your house and dog/house sit or a vet clinic that also does limited boarding.

10 days in a car with his owners is very different than trying to deal with airlines, airports and foreign regulations. I would not ask any of my older dogs to deal with it.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Flying from New York to Paris. Unfortunately my 2 dog sitters are in vacations.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your replies.
I always fly Delta and in fact I know their regulations and all paperwork are already done with the reservation.
Delta upgrade emotional support animal in comfort and gives you bulkhead seat which has more space, it is the 1st row behind business. As we are 3 flying together with Leo he will have enough room to lay down.

Regulations in France are pretty simple, also we are french. In France doberman is not consider agressive breed.

Our daycare in Manhattan went out of business and Leo cannot handle it for 10 days he has separation anxiety as he is always with my 2 other dogs. By the way they are flying with us all the time as they are small dogs and they are coming too.
If I had a friend staying in New York for the summer of course it would be the best option but summer = vacations.

I will let you know how it went when we come back.

Thank again for your advices.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 07:10 AM
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The training center I attended worked in the area training service and/or therapy dogs ....part of their training is to regularly visit local airports, travel on airport trams, and spend a lot of hours in high traffic areas around the international airport. Along with teaching their handlers appropriate techniques for pubic interactions as their dogs are at work.
IMO if your dog does not have a proven track record in this area you should take pause..........IMO the whole idea of emotional support should be a dog that will assist you........in the circumstance you have described .....the dog might cause you more emotional stress.
My dog Hoss is my service dog......before he goes into any unusual environment we train by exposing him to the situation over and over again this allows him as well as myself to be prepared for the work he needs to perform for me at a later date.
Suggest finding a caregiver........ just for this trip..........then at a later date .....train ...train....train ....and prepare yourself and your pup for this type of trip at a later date. Seriously a trip like this is a big deal............I hope either way you have a wonderful time.......such a great opportunity to be able to travel to this area........good luck.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 07:48 AM
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My honest opinion is this is a train wreck looking for a place to happen , be it at the airport or at 30 thousand feet , but I will bet it will happen . Will be watching for you on the nightly news .

Sorry , but you don’t have the best interest in mind for your best friend here

Doc
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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I understand. He went to JFK with me many times to pick up my son as he is traveling a lot and never had any problem.
Also we leave Downtown Manhattan in a very busy area. Financial District is very crowd.
If no one that I and he is familiar with is not available I will take the risk to take him with us.
I will keep you updated.
Thank you.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOBBILEO View Post
I understand. He went to JFK with me many times to pick up my son as he is traveling a lot and never had any problem.
Also we leave Downtown Manhattan in a very busy area. Financial District is very crowd.
If no one that I and he is familiar with is not available I will take the risk to take him with us.
I will keep you updated.
Thank you.
Dobbileo : I was not trying to be a A-hole in my reply to you , my wife says it just comes naturally for me

But You asked for opinions and you got great advise on this subject , but I have to add a few things here , I know your new on here and happy you joined up here , welcome !

Dobebug : got her first Doberman in 1959 ! + plus works at a vets office

4x 4 has had Dobermans since the 70’s

meadowcat : nose work champion , notice on the left hand side the list of awards + the RIP’s for many of the posters.

Dob_Mom , another Doberman owner , with a top 20 Dog

greenie, another great poster , currently complaining Hugo .

What I trying to say here is the experience level is off the scale !

my reason for concern is we have been blessed with several senior Dobermans , Kasia was the tops , for now , we took her to FLA camping for a month , she was a great rider , but as she got older , like me , we change , what once was not a concern turns into one .

What changed Kasia was a tornado that crossed our field right behind our house , it changed her life forever . When it stormed , she was off the scale with anxiety! To the point of almost uncontrollable , yet she trusted ole dad , thank God .

My point is , as another posted said , riding in a car and a airplane has no comparison , just like living in the big city , lots of noise and people . What I see as the problem there. Is no escape if something goes wrong , stuck in a aluminum tube for 7 hours would be a night mare , and I , hate nightmares .

There is so many unknowns for the first time out , you understand what i’m trying to say ?

I understand your problem with a sitter , If it was my dog , I would find someway to keep him home or I won’t go .

I know that sounds stupid , one friend told us you can’t live your life around a.dog , well we don’t have a dog I told them , we have a Doberman , and yes , we live our life’s around our pair !

Best of luck , I truly mean it .

Doc
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 11:10 AM
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My question would be whether he has actually ever been on a plane before? Going to the airport or a busy downtown area is a far cry from being cooped up in a pressurized metal tube for nearly ten hours with no place to potty or stretch his legs.


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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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My question would be whether he has actually ever been on a plane before? Going to the airport or a busy downtown area is a far cry from being cooped up in a pressurized metal tube for nearly ten hours with no place to potty or stretch his legs.
^^^ This. Dogs who haven't been trained to be basically in a "down-stay" in one place for that kind of flight...it's just really asking a LOT of a dog. Even for actual service dogs that's a very tough task, and they've trained for YEARS to be able to do it. You're not even talking about a short flight - this is an overseas flight...long! I know people with service dogs that have done a TON of work to teach their dogs how to handle flying. How to eliminate in the airport potty areas (which often are strange and not very much like normal potty spots), how to tuck under the seat area, which is super uncomfortable for long flights, how to ignore all the strangeness of flights - the tight quarters, strange noises....even then, you can't really prepare for the pressure changes they'll experience.

It feels like we can't talk you out of this, but I really hope you are open to hearing what a bad idea this is. If you simply google "ESA bite on plane" you'll find numerous stories in the last year or two of this exact kind of situation!
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 01:03 PM
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Well Folks..

I feel the although the OP's plans were already set and as we responded not to the original question, that the OP was gracious in that he/she read our posts and thanked each one. Taking proffered advice on the internet is simply an option. Especially when the advice is unsolicited.

@ DOBBILEO: I hope all goes well and you have a congenial flight. Let us know how it turned out.

Also... I hope that you return to this forum. It would be nice to have you around.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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So today, I contacted many hotel resorts (boarding) as Leo has separation anxiety. Also like your dog he goes in panic with thunder storm.
Good reputable hotels for dog are already sold out.
So we had a family talk today as Leo is my son's dog but because he is traveling a lot for business, Leo stays with me.
Long story short and final decision I am not going to France. My son and his girlfriend are going to see our family for a week. I will go at another time of the year.

You see I listen to you guys. I am 61 and I had dogs in my whole life, labradors, papillon, chihuahua.

Leo is the only one staying in New York when I am going oversea. We had 2 bad experiences with daycare, especially boarding in Manhattan and believe me it wasn't cheap. We could see how Leo was doing with the video on line and it was painful to look at him trying to get attention. He looked so depressed that we decided not to look at the video for the rest of our stay. I called the daycare everyday and of course everything was perfect..... He only staid 4 nights.

Anyway thank you so much and I didn't think you were rude. I really appreciate your concern about Leo for him to be safe.

All the best!!!
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 08:04 PM
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I think that's a great decision! Best for him...good for you!
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 10:14 PM
Big Lil pup
 
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Yup^^^^

John
Portland OR
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:59 AM
Alpha
 
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Great news.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:04 AM
Alpha
 
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Dobb , I hope you stay on here and keep posting up , I think you would be a good fit with the other posters on here

There are a few of us in your age group , then we have the young guns , then the older owls as I will call them lol

Even though We have had Dobermans since the early 80’s , I have leaned on this group a few times for advice , to which they have never failed me

Have a great day !

Doc
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
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Here some pictures of Leo!
Flying to europe-img_1023.jpg.jpg

Flying to europe-jpeg-image-j253ak.jpg

Flying to europe-img_0855.jpg

Flying to europe-img_1066.jpg

Flying to europe-img_4549.jpg
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 02:11 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
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Hi Leo!

He looks to be a happy young fellow, certainly not 9 in those pictures!

Who is the Frenchie with him??
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
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The last picture is from last year so 8 years old. The frenchie is my french bulldog "Buddha"
Leo had ears infection on both ears so they are not up anymore.
Leo think he is a puppy and he is still acting like a 1 year old Lol . He has a lot of energy.
Here more pictures of my 3 dogs.
I just took the 1st one and the 2nd one is about 2 weeks ago. The 3rd one is Diego my chihuahua.
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 07:38 PM
Always Grateful
 
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Such an awesome decision to honor your senior guy like that. It really brought tears to see how much you care for him that you refuse to put him through a lot of stress. You must have an awesome bond!
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THE BOONDOGGLE
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