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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Fursaver Collars?

I got an email this morning from Dogsport Gear that there was a spring sale, everything in store is discounted, up to 20%.

I figure now is a good time to get a fursaver for Nadia so that we can be street legal so to speak when we hit the IGP fields this spring/summer. (Ironically it will be technically illegal in Montreal starting 2020 as the city has banned chokers and ecollars).

I am just wondering if those of you here with experiences with the fur savers, can tell me if you've noticed any differences between the short link, medium link and regular collars? I will probably get a black one, so I wouldn't mind seeing pictures of your black on black.

For sizing I imagine it will run similar to her tag keepers - I only intend on using the dead ring since the Missus has never worn a choker, unless you want to count the slip style show leads.

TIA!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 07:55 AM
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Artemis- Sorry, but I have no experience using Fur Saver collars.
Has Montreal also banned prong collars such as the Herm Sprenger type, which we used for training on our Dobes?

Looks like there's going to be a rash of loose dogs and broken female wrists & shoulders in Montreal due to squirrel-lurching powerful dogs.
I personally know of two such cases of female broken bones due to dog lurching, one Dobe and one energetic mixed breed.

Here's a shot of Spock wearing Black Herm Sprenger pinch collar in his youth:




My DW will still use a prong on our Eva when we go to highly popular public park with many trails with many joggers, toddlers, bikers, pets, stollers, scooters, skaters passing close by. We don't want to take any chances of her losing control in that setting.


Results of no pinch or Martingale collar on a Dobe walked by small framed lady:


Ten Doberman Rules
Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!

Last edited by spocksdad; 03-29-2019 at 08:03 AM.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Spock sure is a handsome fellow, thanks for the picture!
And yes, I forgot about prongs, but those will be illegal too. I assume most people who currently use them will switch to the type with a sleeve that hides them. Couple of people I know already do to avoid dirty looks.

Unfortunately the SPCA (which in Canada, if you follow the money will lead right back to PETA/HSUS) has lobbied a lot and applied a lot of pressure - we've had several heated municipal elections in the last couple of years. The previous administration wanted to ban Pit Bull Type dogs as well as include a clause saying they could add any dangerous breed or breed deemed dangerous without any sort of forewarning at any time. Many people in a panic had to give away their dogs and the SPCA had to ship dogs out of Montreal - and even the province since the provincial government was discussing a dangerous dogs act and breed specific legislation.

A lot of people were vocally opposed to the BSL, not least of which the SPCA. When the next municipal elections rolled around the most promising mayoral candidate cozied up to the SPCA to make promises etc. As a result, the SPCA now managed to influence legislation beyond just reversing the BSL. Mandatory spay/neuter in 2020. Although when I dropped in to renew Nadia's license one of the workers told me they *think* there will be a breeder permit. I told them breeders aren't the only responsible pet owners to keep their animals intact - show dog owners for example, some working sport owners etc. I also asked them if vasectomy/oss will be an acceptable alternative, because a law that demands mandatory pediatric speuter is not in fact a law concerned with real welfare. I also told them that banning training aids and tools is not going to help make dogs safer members of the community. The more out of control a large powerful dog is, the less likely the owner will take them out for walks/exercising. The less off-leash areas we have access too, the less excercising opportunities the dog will have. The more under-exercised and under-stimulated a dog is, the more dangerous it will become, and the vicious cycle starts all over again until the dog hits a breaking point.

Anyway BSL was pushed back so yay, but they retained other aspects of the dangerous dog act. For example, if your dog kills a squirrel they could be labeled as dangerous or at risk of being dangerous. I need to stop before I go on a rant about de-naturing, over-sanitizing and anthropomorphism of dogs.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 11:17 AM
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@ Artemis.

Yeah... I use a Lola Secret Power training collar to avoid the stigma of a Dobe on a prong. It looks like a Martingale and the prongs are moveable (removable). I use the one that clips on. It makes it so much easier to put on. When I really want control, like in heavy crowds or around lots of dogs, I use it with a 4' Ruffwear Knot A Leash. The combo gives me awesome control.

https://lolalimited.net

John
Portland OR
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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I'll be sure to let other folks know about it John. There are a few people I know who have working dogs who live in the city. When you have a hardass, dickhead of a KNPV-line adolescent Dutch Shepherd, a front clip harness just doesn't cut it.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 03:21 PM
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Oh.. BTW Artemis.. I use the 2.3 mm Prong size collar. It comes, in the size that I use for McCoy with 8 prongs. Lola never puts a prong on the front of the throat (tracheal/larynx area). At 4 1/2 years old, I am down to 4 prongs. It's just a reminder to McCoy that he is still in a training collar. McCoy is an average sized intact show line male 85-87 lb.

I also check his neck every time I put his walking collar on. There are never any issues. It's just a habit that I got into when I first started walking him on a prong.

John
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Nadia's black fur saver arrived yesterday and she looks as sleek as I hoped she would. She'll be the classiest bitch on the BH field this side of the St Lawrence river!



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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:57 PM
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Looks great!

Please get back and let us know how well it works.

Your neighborhood looks very interesting.

John
Portland OR
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
Looks great!

Please get back and let us know how well it works.

Your neighborhood looks very interesting.

John
Portland OR
Neighbourhood was covered in snow today. There are some architectural quirks that are specific to Montreal, this neighbourhood is very typical of the older established areas - our house (a triplex) is over 100 years old.

I took it for a test drive yesterday by clipping the active ring to one of the links (just to adjust it properly) and using it as a 'dead ring'. Walking to one of Nadia's favourite places (the pet grocer and supply store), off-duty, because I know that's when she's likeliest to be eager. Held up well, it seems pretty sturdy.

As a bonus the clerk was impressed with her manners and how obedient she was when I put her in a down stay while paying for her food, in spite of the fact the store's two dog-hating cats were at the cash register (actually that's exactly why I put her in a down stay a few feet away because I've seen those cats tackle dogs before - she used to love cats and was very friendly to them until she got a bad experience with them in one of her crucial fear periods (towards the end of the last one at around 1.5 years). It's been a work in progress getting her de-sensitized but her obedience and focus is necessarily good so I've always been able to override when she's in drive/working. She briefly broke focus and got up and looked his way with her lips slightly wrinkling (and I could see she was tempted to bark) when one of the cats hissed and growled at her but she laid back down again when I told her to, didn't even have time to get a bark out).

The clerk was even more impressed when I told her about her history with cats and gave her a dried liver treat in exchange for a few OB commands.

On the way home she put some more weight into the collar knowing damn well she was gonna get to eat the dried fish skin stick I let her pick out. That's when I took those pictures. Haven't tried the choke ring as I do not have any need for it at this point in time.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:59 PM
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@ Artemis.

I Thought it might be Montreal. I grew up in Detroit. Crossing back and forth to Canada was very common. My family was really into downhill skiing. At least once a year would travel to Mount Tremblant in the Laurentians. As a kid I spent quite a bit of time in Montreal. I really liked it. As a young kid my French was poor, but I could get by. My father was truly multi-lingual. While he wasn't as fluent in French as he was in English, Portuguese or Spanish he was conversational.

I really like the concept of that collar. I am going to research it.

John
Portland OR
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 11:29 AM
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I always wonder why anyone with a Dobe is using a fur saver collar. Back in the middle ages when I was young and IPO hadn't replaced Schutzhund fur saver collar appeared.

They were specifically intended for use on coated dogs (like German Shepherd Dogs) because the longer link (in theory at least) didn't tangle in the coat as easily as a conventional link did and did not wear the coat as much.

I tried a friends one time and except that they didn't give a first click when the collar was being used as a slip collar I couldn't tell any difference. And I use a conventional slip chain (short link) while training and while trialing because I want that little click to be a reminder to the dog that he is out of place and moving ahead of me.

Sounds like either the fur saver or any other kind of slip chain is now going to be illegal and the concealed prong is about the only thing you'll be able to train with or use for control of a dog who hasn't learned to walk quietly at your side yet.

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