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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe it was meant to be!

When my husband FINALLY came to be saying that he thinks he is ready for another dog. (Been pestering him for 4yrs, lol.) We decided that we wanted to get a Doberman. We both liked Blue, Rust, and Standard, but I was really stuck on getting a Blue male. I poked all over the internet looking on sites like Petfinder, and Puppyfinder, but never really cared for those places, because they post dogs that are at the local shelters, and while I would love to adopt from there, they make it nearly impossible to do so with such ridiculous guidelines to be able to adopt. Things like, must have completely fenced in yard, dog can not be outside on it's own AT ALL for ANY period of time, you can not have any other animals in your home, any child must be at least 5yrs, and older. Someone must be at home with the dog at all times. Can only take dog to approved list of vets, etc. It's crazy I tried to adopt several years ago, and it was a no go, because of all the requirements.

So I remember that when I was breeding, and selling rabbits I often used Hoobly. I liked the sight, because posters seemed to give more care into providing information about their animals, and taking time to answer questions. I came across this beautiful Blue male pup about 3 hours from us. The poster had everything we were looking for. Cropped, docked, dew claws removed, been around small children, and other animals $750. I was hooked when I saw him. So I sent them a message, and waited.... and waited... and waited some more. It said that they had viewed the message, but they never replied. They had their phone number on their post. I called the number, and left another message, but still no reply, and I honestly felt a little crushed...

I looked around at the other ads, some where nice, some not so much, but I could not get that blue boy out of my head. As reluctant as I was my husband convinced me to JUST LOOK on Craigslist. I really really do not like Craigslist, let alone getting an animal from there. I've seen, and heard too many horror stories about it. I find another poster who had a blue male, cropped, docked, etc for $950. Again they had a phone number, but this time I sent them a text with what we were looking for, and little information about us, and our family. Shortly after I sent the text, they called me. The woman said that she did have the blue male, and his sister that is white. She said that the male was already spoken for, and the gentleman was supposed to be coming to get him that Sunday, BUT if for any reason he was unable to make it, we would be next in line, and she would call us right away. It was Friday night when we spoke. About 20 minutes later she calls us back, and said that she called him, and he told her that he was not going to be able to come get the puppy. We got to talking a little more, about our family, how long she has had Dobermans for, and that she didn't breed her dogs regularly for a profit, but from time to time to bring in a little extra money. I asked her if she was still thinking $950 for the pup since we're not getting any papers. She said oh you must have looked at an older ad. With how old they've gotten we're now asking $750. I thought wow, great! Right into our budget! She went on to say that recently she was in a wreck while she was driving into work, and it had broken her right leg, and left foot, and was in the hospital for a short time, and it made it harder for her to be able to respond people asking about her pups. We agreed on a pick up time for Saturday, and she gave me her daughters number, because she would be the one handing off the pup, and showing me how to post his ears.

We get off the phone, and of course I am excited, but I still thought of the blue that I first laid eyes on. Idk why I wanted him so much, but he just seemed to call to me. Saturday morning hits, and we all pack into our Jeep, and head off to pick him up. After what seemed like forever we are finally there. We meet her daughter, the pup, and the pups mother. Everything in my mind checks out well.

As we are in the car heading home with this cute little boy sitting on my lap I decided to check my phone, and look at that blue boy one more time. I started staring at his picture, and noticed that the pup had a slight scar on the top of his head. I then looked down at, who's now named Lucifer, and notice that he also has a slight scar on top of his head... Hmm....??? I looked at the number that was posted in the add, and then quickly checked the number of the woman who I just got Luc from... It was a match!!

Luc is the blue boy that first stole my heart, and the woman did not respond, because she had been in that accident the morning that I sent her that first message.

I still find it a little crazy about how it all worked out, but I can not help, but feel that Luc was meant to be with us!
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:15 AM
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:07 PM
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I must be reading this wrong, but you bought a puppy from an albino breeder?
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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His mother was all white, and so is his sister.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
I must be reading this wrong, but you bought a puppy from an albino breeder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeccaGore View Post
His mother was all white, and so is his sister.
So yes, then.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BeccaGore View Post
His mother was all white, and so is his sister.
Did you do any research before buying? Literally any at all?

Because the person you supported with your money is a heinous individual who isn't in it to improve the breed - they're in it for greed, plain and simple. They lack ethics.

Lack of health testing is terrifying in this breed. Did you look into the health problems that plague this breed? I guarantee this "breeder" did none of the recommended health testing. Not to mention potential temperament issues from deliberately breeding for color, without considering the temperament of the dogs being bred.

There are so many issues with this purchase I don't know where to begin.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:46 PM
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By the way, they're albino. Not white. Albino.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:52 PM
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I must be reading this wrong, but you bought a puppy from an albino breeder?
Please, give it a rest....

She/they have a dog they love.

That's awesome for Becca, the pup and whomever else is involved. My first boy (1974) was so BYB that our vet suggested that we hook up with a Doberman authority. Dr. Jim Morrison who was a Doberman judge and show cropper pronounced my "AKC Britten David' as a wonderful example of the breed.

'Britty" outlived my friend and veterinarian Jim. His single vet practice exists today, over 40 years later.

So. If you want to advise folks. Wonderful. But an, after the fact, chastisement is a waste of time and energy.

I have no clue from whom they got Lucifer. Honestly, who gives a sh*t....

John
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:16 PM
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Now that you know that you supported a byb please strive to do the right thing next time. I too was in your shoes when my hubby was determined to get Coco over 8 years ago. I really didn't know what a byb was at the time because I never wanted a dog. When I found this forum I was shocked discovering what I had done and the whole big picture.

Coco was $750 also and your post caught my eye earlier when I was lurking but now I'm compelled to log in and post. I promised myself once I discovered what we had done that I would use my voice to try to educate.

When we know better we can do better and that is our responsibility to this wonderful breed and our darling dogs. Next time I will go to a reputable breeder or a rescue. I won't support a byb again.

Cocos byb seemed like lovely people whose dogs had an 'accidental' litter. They lived inside and their house was clean. They emailed me once after she came home and I never heard from them again. They have no idea what kind of life she has had or of she is dead or alive. And they don't care. Because they got their money for her and with bybs that's all that matters.

Coco has had a fabulous life with us and will always have this until her last day because she is a part of our family. She has been extremely healthy and I feel blessed everyday by this. But I have fed her raw for the last 7.5 years and try to use natural remedies to prolong her life as long as I can since I don't know her health history. Recently we had a cancer scare which wasn't cancer but long story short I spent almost $10000 to rule out cancer and save her leg from amputation and ultimately her life because one vet recommended putting her to sleep. I still have ptsd from this ordeal because although I made a horrible mistake she has brought immense joy to my life. She is the best mistake I have ever made but will not make it again.

Love that boy because he is a part of your heart now. Feed him the best you can. Use the best vet that you can and ensure that he has a wonderful life. He is a little hellion now but he will grow into a great dog. Coco drove me crazy but she became the best girl.

Toughen up your skin a bit in this thread as you are going to hear things you don't want to but members here are passionate and want the best for all dobes.

Sorry for the novel. I don't post much but when I do watch out lol.
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Kin's Sweet Revenge aka Sugar December 31/18

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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falnfenix - Uhm, ha. Again this person is NOT a breeder. She had 2 dogs. Both that they had, had for a while.

Before you jump MY a*s over how I spend MY money please take a moment to consider I did look into things. Luc is not Albino. He is a Blue, and in good health for that matter.

There is NO need to take an attitude with me. So don't sit there, and try to hi jack what was supposed to be a nice cute story with your crap.

Who are you to run around telling someone what they should, and shouldn't be doing? I am happy with Luc, he is a great pup, and guess what?! IF any health issues do come into play he will be well taken care of, thank you.

If you want to voice your opinion that is fine, but you do not need come at someone with such aggression.

Last edited by BeccaGore; 11-18-2017 at 09:26 PM.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:23 PM
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Are you talking to me?

Because I certainly didn't have an attitude with you.



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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Coco Loco - Thank you for your input. I am glad Coco had a wonderful life, and Luc will too. I still speak to the woman about once a week, or so. She will text me, and ask how he is doing, ask for pictures, etc.

When we picked him up she sent us with a trunk full of supplies for him. A toy that he had since he was born, a bag of food, list of suggested vets. They were a little too far for us to regularly see, but still it was a nice thought.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Oh no no hun, I was talking to falnfenix. Sorry! I tried to edit it so it would be directed to them.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:49 PM
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I'm sure Luc will have a great life with you as I can tell he already is.

Members are passionate here about preserving the breed because there are so many health issues even in dogs from reputable breeders that do all the health testing and not just how we take our dogs for a simple check up.

I'm sure the lady is a nice lady but she let her albino dobe have a litter and she made money off of Luc and his siblings. And this probably wasn't the first litter and it's probably not the last.

We put money into these people's hands and they make money off of their dogs reproductive organs. This is what members get upset about. Bybs also don't vet people to see what kind of owner they will be because they just want our money. Maybe I will be wrong about this lady and she will stay in contact with you for Lucs whole life but I won't be surprised if she drops out. Cocos byb initially wanted us all to get together with the dogs but I only heard from her once. The next time I emailed her she didn't respond and by then I knew and I didn't care because she doesn't deserve to know about Coco.

Believe me I know what a shitty feeling it is to realize that things may not have been as we thought.

But he's a part of your family now and he looks like a lovey. I have always had a soft spots for the blues. When Coco was a pup she used to play with an old blue girl.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 10:22 PM
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So....

I doubt you will see dilutes being bred by responsible and ethical breeders in the future. Forget about albinos. It's been a foregone conclusion for years that it was very detrimental to the Doberman breed.

That being said, my current boy's Grandfather is a dilute Fawn: Ch Foxfire's Gold Toed Monster BN CD RE OA AXJ NF CGC CGCA ROM BFL-1 LC-10L.

The last of the great dilute Doberman sires. His greatest progeny was probably Foxfire's GCH Tell Me About It. (Jewelia).

Toad turns 12 in 2 days!.

In case I forget....

Hey bug! Hey Toad.....

John and McCoy are wishing Toad a happy 12th on the 20th!

MAN I LOVE LONGEVITY IN DOBERMANS!

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
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Please, give it a rest....

She/they have a dog they love.
No. I care more about the breed than that. People who breed albinos are some of the worst people in the breed. Normalizing it and accepting it is just as abhorrent to me.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 09:38 AM
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Becca -

You clearly love your boy, and many, many of us started in Dobermans with a dog from the type of breeder that we call "backyard breeders." I did. I didn't know anything about how to research breeders, or why I should. I didn't know why certain types of breeders were harmful for the breed overall. All I knew was I really liked Dobermans, and I wanted a puppy, and I had no clue that I even SHOULD research, so I really didn't do any. And I got a puppy from a breeder here in Minnesota. And she taught me a lot of things...she brought me to this site.

I won't get too much into her story, but I'm also going to say that thankfully I was open and wanting to learn more about Dobermans. And partly because of that first girl, I learned that the types of breeders we buy from really matters. There were people on the forum back then that spoke truth in the way that CocoLoco is - not harshly, but just to say, hey, it's awesome you love your puppy, please stay on the forum, but hopefully you are wanting to learn more about the breed and about breeders...there's a ton to learn. I hope you are someone who becomes passionate about Dobermans. It's true your boy is blue, but one starting place you may want to educate yourself about is that his breeder bred albino Dobermans. From the National Doberman club, here's information on how albino Dobermans came into being and why their breeding is not supported: DPCA | The Doberman | Albino Dobermans.

I'm not judging you for buying this puppy...like I said, lots and lots of people started in this breed how you did...we fell in love with the breed and bought a puppy. The question now is whether you are open to learning more and growing in this breed. Love your boy, train him well, make him a lovely breed ambassador that represents our breed well. And when you decide you can't live without another Doberman, I hope that you will have grown in your knowledge about breeders and will want to buy from one of the really amazing ethical breeders that are doing so much to breed for the betterment of our breed.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 09:39 AM
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I agree that it's a little late for some of these comments considering Becca has her pup and he's obviously not going anywhere. Maybe instead we can show her what great breeders do and why they do what they do so that in the future she can buy a puppy from one of these breeders instead.

Becca- if you visit the Doberman Pinscher Club of America's website www.DPCA.org you can see what the club has to say about albinos and why we should not support breeders who breed them. The DPCA strongly recommends owners of albinos and their relatives be spayed or neutered as well.

If you have registered your puppy you will probably have gotten some literature on this through the akc when you received his papers back. Have a read through there if you haven't already. If you don't have this I'll try to explain shortly.

Albinism is a genetic mutation which causes a lack of pigment in the skin and eyes. This increases risks for certain types of skin cancers and vision problems (think of it like there is no UV protection built in). Albino dobermans first showed up in the 1970s and have been heavily inbred by crummy breeders since then in order to keep producing the dogs. Since they are rare they can be sold for big bucks to unsuspecting buyers. Because of this inbreeding there are temperament and structural problems in addition to the health problems I already mentioned. These can occur in the albino dogs as well as the non albino descendants from them. I don't mean to scare you, and I don't think you did anything "wrong" here since you just didn't know, but I'm just trying to help put it in perspective as to why some members might get ruffled feathers about albino breeders. It is just that they are very passionate about the breed and want to ensure it has a positive future. Condoning the practices of these breeders is looked down upon by folks who've been with he breed for a long time.

While you're on the DPCA's site I really recommend checking out some of the public education material that's available there. There is a lot about the history of the breed as well as what is "correct" for a doberman based on the doberman standard. There are also some great articles on raising puppies, how to look for a great breeder, and other FAQ's. You may also even read about fun things you can do with Luci when he grows up like agility, obedience, lure coursing, etc. Many of these articles are written by people who've been with the breed 30, 40, 50 years so they really know their stuff!
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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greenkouki, and MeadowCat - Thank you both so much for your input. That is why I joined this site was to learn more. I do know about being Albino. I am eager to learn, I want the best possible life for Lucifer.

I did not get any papers with him so how would I go about Registering him? I didn't think you could register a pup unless you had their papers, or proof that their parents were registered. I will happily take a look at all the websites you guys provided.

If anyone has any further websites, or advice they would like to give me, please feel free to message me!
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 12:42 PM
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You can register him with AKC after he's been neutered via the purebred alternative listing: Purebred Alternative Listing (PAL) - American Kennel Club

Upon registering him he will be able to compete in AKC events except for conformation.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeccaGore View Post
greenkouki, and MeadowCat - Thank you both so much for your input. That is why I joined this site was to learn more. I do know about being Albino. I am eager to learn, I want the best possible life for Lucifer.

I did not get any papers with him so how would I go about Registering him? I didn't think you could register a pup unless you had their papers, or proof that their parents were registered. I will happily take a look at all the websites you guys provided.

If anyone has any further websites, or advice they would like to give me, please feel free to message me!
Becca,

Since you aren't going to be showing him in conformation, I would recommend you look into the PAL registration (Purebred Alternative Listing): Purebred Alternative Listing (PAL) - American Kennel Club. That would allow you to compete in any sports (if you ever decide to do that). There's really no other reason to register him if he's just a companion for you.

Glad you are open to learning more!


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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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Ha! Great minds think alike, Dobe Mom!


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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeccaGore View Post
I did not get any papers with him so how would I go about Registering him? I didn't think you could register a pup unless you had their papers, or proof that their parents were registered.
If you didn't get an application for registration when you got him, then you are out of luck. To be honest, not providing registration papers is another sign that she wasn't a responsible breeder.

If you decide you want to do AKC events, then you can apply for a Purebred Alternative Listing after he is neutered. For UKC, you can get a Performance Listing. ASCA requires a QT (Tracking) number. There are also a slew of other organizations that offer events in a wide variety of sports.


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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 01:12 PM
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Becca- Sorry, I just assumed you had gotten AKC papers when you purchased him. It's not really a big deal that you didn't because as others pointed out, you can send in an application to get his PAL if you decide to compete in anything with him. I got a PAL for my girl since she was rehomed 2 times before she was re-homed with me and I had no registration papers. I'm glad we did because she's recently found her calling in nose work, a new sport with the AKC, and I'm planning to trial her very soon!
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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It's no problem hun. He is mostly just a family dog. We won't competing, or anything. Though I did sort of plan on having some small guard dog training done with him.
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