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post #1 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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I'm saying good-bye to Gretchen (somewhat)

I have learned so much from her and she brightens my days in so many different ways. I love her temperament and nearly everything about her. She brought me to where I am today. I could not be prouder of my foolish purchase. She's beautiful, very close to being a finished CH with a 5 point major under her belt and many other obedience titles including her Rally Excellent, most always her scores are in the 90s or 190s. At our local specialty she got reserve with me showing her under Faye Strausse. I went to nationals to campaign for her. I've spoken to many breeders hoping they would breed to her but that's just not how life is in show world, it's a bit unfair really. I don't want to breed her to just anything as that's not fair. On top of that I'm taking my breeding program to what I consider the full Doberman, temperament, health and conformation. Gretchen doesn't have a lot of health behind her on her sires side. It's a bigger gamble than I'm willing to put puppy buyers through.

I spent many nights (months) thinking of what to do. Thinking of a way I could keep her, and I could. My house is small but my heart is huge. The final decision came down to not being selfish. I want to keep her for me, for how she makes me feel, but ultimately she won't be happy if she's not working and being left behind while I take other dogs working and to shows. I have a very close friend with two young girls but really wanted a puppy from Gretchen. When I brought the idea up to her she was OVER the MOON happy!!! Gretchen has been spending a few hours over there and eventually we will be doing over nights, weekends... to make it seem much more seamless. She also lives only a few minutes from my house and I'll be watching G. when they are out of town, which is often. She has already purchased a coat from Meadowcat, she bought her a Kirkland bed, she's bought toys especially for G. and has already set up some personal training sessions with a trainer to keep on working G. She wants to spay G. right away so we have already set the appointment up. I trust Audra more than my own family, as I would never sell a puppy to anyone in my family. Love them, just not their dog sense.

This was not a decision I came upon lightly. I asked close breeder friends that know Gretchen, I asked Breeders on this forum, I asked Mav's breeder and many other people. NOT ONE said I was doing right by her to keep her. Not one. I still tear up thinking about it. I cried MANY nights and still continue to do so. I often try to talk myself out of it but it all comes down to what I feel is best for her.

I'm prepared that I will be judged for my decision and I'm ok with that. But I don't put up false pretenses to anyone, not here and not in my life.





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post #2 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:21 PM
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Kudos to you for being so unselfish and brave, and putting the best life for Gretchen first. I know it was an incredibly hard decision, but as you said she will be very close by with someone you trust completly. And now she will have two mommies
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post #3 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Kudos to you for being so unselfish and brave, and putting the best life for Gretchen first. I know it was an incredibly hard decision, but as you said she will be very close by with someone you trust completly. And now she will have two mommies
I think she'll have 4 mommies! Two are just super young. Audra is careful though. She's a good mother and dog mother. She doesn't allow the girls to do inappropriate things. She knows G. will tolerate it but other dogs/animals won't so she doesn't allow that behavior to happen. They are taught to be respectful to Gretchen.
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post #4 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:57 PM
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I was going to reply privately, but you did put it up on open board. First every one knows how much you love G. Some may dispute the statement of if it is in the best interest of her by giving her to someone else. They may say the love is more important then the work.
Every dog is different. I don't know Gretchen. But I have two Working German Shepherds in the house. I know to them being worked is their highest desire and thought process. They aren't the snuggly sort. A 2 second hug and that is enough to satisfy them. Ultimately you know Gretchen because of spending as much time together. Any one who comments either way will not be speaking from knowledge. They will only be guessing or speaking about their personal experience which won't have any bearing because of different personalities. I understand how hard decisions like this are. Instead of thinking about how hard it will be on you concentrate on how much joy Lovely Gretchen will bring your friend and their family.

Best to you
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post #5 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:57 PM
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I would not judge you in regards to your decision, but I am curious that NOT ONE said you were doing right to keep her. I am wondering if I misread that sentence? 'Cause
I would not think it was ever wrong to keep a dog you loved regardless of never showing or breeding or the size of your house. That's all. Otherwise I feel you would do what is right for your girl.
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post #6 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 01:58 PM
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So you're not keeping her because you can't work, show, or breed her?

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post #7 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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I would not judge you in regards to your decision, but I am curious that NOT ONE said you were doing right to keep her. I am wondering if I misread that sentence? 'Cause
I would not think it was ever wrong to keep a dog you loved regardless of never showing or breeding or the size of your house. That's all. Otherwise I feel you would do what is right for your girl.
Not one thought she would be happy staying with me as much as she would be happy being with a family where she will be the number one dog and not be left behind.
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post #8 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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So you're not keeping her because you can't work, show, or breed her?

I'm rehoming her because she would be happy being constantly being left behind. She gives me a sole crushing look when I walk out the door to work Maverick, and we're just outside. Not everyone knows this but when I leave to go to shows, no one is home. I have no family here in Denver. She would have to be left with a roommate or friend while the other dogs go with me. I think eventually, when she's older she'll be ok not being worked and going to shows but she's no where near that point. She loves the ring in any form and she loves to work.
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post #9 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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So you're not keeping her because you can't work, show, or breed her?

I'm rehoming her because she wouldn't be happy being left behind. I don't have a family in Denver. When I leave, she's alone and has to be either watched by my roommate or a friend or go to a friends house. She escaped 3x when I was in Chicago for the Nationals for 4 days. She gives a soul crushing look if I even take Mav right outside to work him. She loves to work so much she'll nudge my hand when we are hiking or at a park to start working. I could continue to work her and I do, this has been in the pipeline for many months and yet I still just put another obedience title on her. Not every dog is like G. they don't all like to work and they don't all love to be in the ring, and I don't expect people to understand that. I really look at Audra's home as an extension of mine. I'm even paying for G. to be holtered when I get back from the holidays.
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post #10 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:41 PM
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I understand your position. In a perfect world I'm sure you'd have all the time and space and resources to keep & work everyone but as we all know this is not a perfect world. I'm glad it worked out that she'll be so close, that must be a comfort!
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post #11 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:51 PM
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Karen.... Best to you and G. To me it sounds like almost an ideal situation. I trust that it will all work out

Love ya! KIsses to G and M.

John
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post #12 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 02:56 PM
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So you're not keeping her because you can't work, show, or breed her?

Hey green...Please re-read G_R's comment. My take is that she is concerned with the well being of Gretchen given a potential changes and has come up with a really resonable alternative. It makes perfect sense to me... Win/Win.


John
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post #13 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:14 PM
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It honestly sounds like a pretty selfish choice on your part. You can put whatever spin you like on it but you're still opting to get rid of her for a typical reason. Rather than commit to the dog you have which is what normal adult type people do. Instead You're going to get rid of her.... she wants to work and yet you're putting her in a home with someone with two kids? Interesting to see how someone with that much on their plate will be able to commit to 'training'.

I have a dog that didn't end up being what I'd hoped he be so we found something else to do together. It sounds to me that because for whatever reason you're unable to finish her, reputable breeders won't breed with a known byb bitch so you're absolving yourself of your responsibility to her by 'finding her a home that has time for her'.... sounds like every dog reliquished to rescue or shelters all over the world. The responsible thing would be to meet the obligation you signed up for when you purchased her. But by all means spout a song and dance.... fwiw if you loved her as much as you purport you'd find a way to make it work.


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post #14 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:22 PM
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Why get a second dog if you don't even have "time" for the first??? It just makes absolutely no sense to me. There are ways to make it work like only showing/working locally, hire a dog sitter, or paying a handler to do it for you, or better yet change what activities do with the other dog so you can properly provide for both of their needs.

A dog is a lifetime commitment (10+ years) and one can't just change priorities then use those as justification for re-homing. Don't spin this to try and make yourself feel better. I'm sorry I just have no sympathy for this kind of thing. It's different when you're already a breeder and a show prospect puppy doesn't grow out like you hoped, so you re-home it but you purchased this dog as a companion.
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post #15 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:26 PM
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@SieYa

"fwiw if you loved her as much as you purport you'd find a way to make it work.

Uh.... It appears she did. (A little slow on the uptake?) A great home for a well trained, healthy dog, where she wiil have frequnent contact and input. What am I missing?

Sheesh......

John
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post #16 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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It honestly sounds like a pretty selfish choice on your part. You can put whatever spin you like on it but you're still opting to get rid of her for a typical reason. Rather than commit to the dog you have which is what normal adult type people do. Instead You're going to get rid of her.... she wants to work and yet you're putting her in a home with someone with two kids? Interesting to see how someone with that much on their plate will be able to commit to 'training'.

I have a dog that didn't end up being what I'd hoped he be so we found something else to do together. It sounds to me that because for whatever reason you're unable to finish her, reputable breeders won't breed with a known byb bitch so you're absolving yourself of your responsibility to her by 'finding her a home that has time for her'.... sounds like every dog reliquished to rescue or shelters all over the world. The responsible thing would be to meet the obligation you signed up for when you purchased her. But by all means spout a song and dance.... fwiw if you loved her as much as you purport you'd find a way to make it work.
Gretchen is everything I had hoped. She's disproved what many of you have told others, myself included, many times, "A BYB can't make it in the show ring". Not only does she have a 5 point major, she has many other wins as well. She's actually easily finishable, she only needs another major. That doesn't play in it all. But why Finish a bitch and take points away from other dogs when there aren't any plans to breed?

I'm ok with your opinion and what you think of my "song and dance". The difference is, unless I'm very good, it's the same song and dance that I went to some of my best friends who are breeders, I've had the talk with Shelian, I've had it with Whitney Newman, Sharon Marinelli, Nancy Christensen.... In fact it puts me in good company with many breeders that have also rehomed dogs. I'm not doing it because I love her less. I'm doing it because I love the breed and I'm therefore choosing to not breed her. I'm doing it because I LOVE HER SO MUCH THAT ALTHOUGH IT KILLS ME! KILLS ME!!! I want to see Gretchen happy. If I thought I could make her as happy as another home could I would 100% keep her.

I'm not worried about my friend having the time with small children. She's also a horse trainer, and Miss Rodeo trainer. She hires a nanny for when she works all the other times she's a stay at home mom.

Good to see you came back, I wasn't sure after the last reaming you had.
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post #17 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:38 PM
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Then you are rehoming her because you have decided that you will not breed her and as a result you don't have decided to put your efforts towards a new bitch that you will eventually plan to breed? I can understand that.

You don't have the time for a pet bitch. That is why you have decided to rehome her and you have taken the time to try to find a suitable home for her. That's a better explanation. It's not like a pet bitch couldn't come along to shows or be worked, even if it wasn't for titles.

Priorities change- that's fine.
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post #18 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:39 PM
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"Good to see you came back, I wasn't sure after the last reaming you had.

LOL!

Yeah that was a pretty embarrasing "B slap".
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post #19 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:39 PM
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I'm prepared that I will be judged for my decision and I'm ok with that. But I don't put up false pretenses to anyone, not here and not in my life.
Except the false pretenses to Gretchen that she was a part of your family when you bought her from the byb and brought her home to her "forever home".

You've made up your mind and will do what you want but this struck a nerve with me. You lecture people about not doing their research before they buy a byb puppy but you did the same thing and are rehoming her because she can't be a part of your future breeding program.

I too have a byb dog and didn't do my research before my hubby got her. I didn't even want a dog but I've taken responsibility and given her the best life! She's 7.5 and will live here entire life with her family because she deserves that.

I commend you for not breeding her and getting her spayed but I'm miffed that you speak out of both sides of your mouth.



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post #20 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Gretchen is everything I had hoped. She's disproved what many of you have told others, myself included, many times, "A BYB can't make it in the show ring". Not only does she have a 5 point major, she has many other wins as well. She's actually easily finishable, she only needs another major. That doesn't play in it all. But why Finish a bitch and take points away from other dogs when there aren't any plans to breed?

I'm ok with your opinion and what you think of my "song and dance". The difference is, unless I'm very good, it's the same song and dance that I went to some of my best friends who are breeders, I've had the talk with Shelian, I've had it with Whitney Newman, Sharon Marinelli, Nancy Christensen.... In fact it puts me in good company with many breeders that have also rehomed dogs. I'm not doing it because I love her less. I'm doing it because I love the breed and I'm therefore choosing to not breed her. I'm doing it because I LOVE HER SO MUCH THAT ALTHOUGH IT KILLS ME! KILLS ME!!! I want to see Gretchen happy. If I thought I could make her as happy as another home could I would 100% keep her.

I'm not worried about my friend having the time with small children. She's also a horse trainer, and Miss Rodeo trainer. She hires a nanny for when she works all the other times she's a stay at home mom.

Good to see you came back, I wasn't sure after the last reaming you had.
You can name drop all you want and it doesn't change the fact that you are skipping out on he responsibilities you took on and why? If she's easily finished why not finish her other than the excuse if you're not going to breed her... lots of people title dogs that they have no intention of breeding for one reason or other. It's another excuse in a long line you've laid down.
I still don't understand why you have decided to rehome her.... you have many different avenues you could potentially take her down and yet because no one will breed with you (this is a complaint you have made a myriad of times) you're going to go with another dog? What if that dog doesn't work the way you want it to? Will you then rehome that one too perpetuating a cycle of of dogs in and out of your home with a plethora of excuses on why you no longer have them... Being a responsible isn't that difficult. Apparently neither is dumping your 'beloved' pet off on someone else.


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post #21 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:49 PM
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Seems to me like you're getting rid of her because she's not good enough to breed from. Let's hope whoever you're dumping her on will be more committed to her than you are.

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post #22 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:50 PM
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My breeder takes her non-show dog to shows all the time. And despite having a number of dogs, she manages to work with them all. I don't envy her because it's a LOT of work, but I respect the hell out of her.
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post #23 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 04:08 PM
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https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-pup-sell.html


Maybe you should read the first sentence you posted in this thread & practice what you preach?

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post #24 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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You all can judge, I'm ok with it. You don't know me, I don't know you. I'm not going to argue with your opinions and I'm not going to defend myself. You either understand and agree with the situation and reasoning or you don't. Many people have the property and money to do things that I can't. This isn't something that came about willy nilly. It was well thought through with many opinions given. I cry over it often and it hasn't even taken place yet. You can believe whatever you want and think whatever you want. What matters to me are the people that are in my life, that love me and care about me, respect the decision I've made and even encouraged it. I've given back to this breed in the last 2.5 years then most people have in their entire lives owning Dobermans. If you think I should keep Gretchen and have her watch the door as I leave with the other dogs is where she will be happiest then you can believe that. I don't and I'm ultimately the one who had to make the decision. A decision that when thought through was "where will she be the happiest? What can I do to keep her and make her happy" always came down to she would be happier in another home. Not just any home, a home that she's been to often, that has always loved her and that can unequivocally provide for her and give her what she needs.
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post #25 of 106 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 04:33 PM
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How many here posting negative actually know Karen??? This is one of the problems with boards like this. While very useful information can and is posted, When someone disagrees rather then just understanding that we all have different opinions the reaction is more like sharks at the smell of blood. I was told from a few mods when I became rather outspoken that this wasn't that type of board and needed to phrase things better. Does a person ever have the right to reassess things in their life and change direction with out being called a hypocrite? If it is ok for an established breeder why is it not ok for someone else?
Before anyone ever jumps to conclusions no I haven't ever gotten rid of a dog. I have gotten a "show prospect" that never dropped. I kept him till he died on the Dr.'s table trying to remove a tumor at almost 12. But I don't stand in judgment of someone who doesn't. I have 4 dogs at my house and room for more and am able to show 3 of the 4. The fourth one is larger then breed standard. A German Shepherd. Everyone's circumstances are different. What if her money is more limited then mine or her time. Maybe how much room she has, What then? Does she have to drop all her goals because G cannot attain the level that she wants? Or is she allowed to asses where she is at and try a different avenue?
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