Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

I'm saying good-bye to Gretchen (somewhat)

17K views 105 replies 33 participants last post by  melbrod 
#1 · (Edited)
I have learned so much from her and she brightens my days in so many different ways. I love her temperament and nearly everything about her. She brought me to where I am today. I could not be prouder of my foolish purchase. She's beautiful, very close to being a finished CH with a 5 point major under her belt and many other obedience titles including her Rally Excellent, most always her scores are in the 90s or 190s. At our local specialty she got reserve with me showing her under Faye Strausse. I went to nationals to campaign for her. I've spoken to many breeders hoping they would breed to her but that's just not how life is in show world, it's a bit unfair really. I don't want to breed her to just anything as that's not fair. On top of that I'm taking my breeding program to what I consider the full Doberman, temperament, health and conformation. Gretchen doesn't have a lot of health behind her on her sires side. It's a bigger gamble than I'm willing to put puppy buyers through.

I spent many nights (months) thinking of what to do. Thinking of a way I could keep her, and I could. My house is small but my heart is huge. The final decision came down to not being selfish. I want to keep her for me, for how she makes me feel, but ultimately she won't be happy if she's not working and being left behind while I take other dogs working and to shows. I have a very close friend with two young girls but really wanted a puppy from Gretchen. When I brought the idea up to her she was OVER the MOON happy!!! Gretchen has been spending a few hours over there and eventually we will be doing over nights, weekends... to make it seem much more seamless. She also lives only a few minutes from my house and I'll be watching G. when they are out of town, which is often. She has already purchased a coat from Meadowcat, she bought her a Kirkland bed, she's bought toys especially for G. and has already set up some personal training sessions with a trainer to keep on working G. She wants to spay G. right away so we have already set the appointment up. I trust Audra more than my own family, as I would never sell a puppy to anyone in my family. Love them, just not their dog sense.

This was not a decision I came upon lightly. I asked close breeder friends that know Gretchen, I asked Breeders on this forum, I asked Mav's breeder and many other people. NOT ONE said I was doing right by her to keep her. Not one. I still tear up thinking about it. I cried MANY nights and still continue to do so. I often try to talk myself out of it but it all comes down to what I feel is best for her.

I'm prepared that I will be judged for my decision and I'm ok with that. But I don't put up false pretenses to anyone, not here and not in my life.




 
See less See more
2
#3 ·
I think she'll have 4 mommies! Two are just super young. :) Audra is careful though. She's a good mother and dog mother. She doesn't allow the girls to do inappropriate things. She knows G. will tolerate it but other dogs/animals won't so she doesn't allow that behavior to happen. They are taught to be respectful to Gretchen.
 
#4 ·
I was going to reply privately, but you did put it up on open board. First every one knows how much you love G. Some may dispute the statement of if it is in the best interest of her by giving her to someone else. They may say the love is more important then the work.
Every dog is different. I don't know Gretchen. But I have two Working German Shepherds in the house. I know to them being worked is their highest desire and thought process. They aren't the snuggly sort. A 2 second hug and that is enough to satisfy them. Ultimately you know Gretchen because of spending as much time together. Any one who comments either way will not be speaking from knowledge. They will only be guessing or speaking about their personal experience which won't have any bearing because of different personalities. I understand how hard decisions like this are. Instead of thinking about how hard it will be on you concentrate on how much joy Lovely Gretchen will bring your friend and their family.

Best to you
Reggie
 
#5 ·
I would not judge you in regards to your decision, but I am curious that NOT ONE said you were doing right to keep her. I am wondering if I misread that sentence? 'Cause
I would not think it was ever wrong to keep a dog you loved regardless of never showing or breeding or the size of your house. That's all. Otherwise I feel you would do what is right for your girl.
 
#8 ·
I'm rehoming her because she would be happy being constantly being left behind. She gives me a sole crushing look when I walk out the door to work Maverick, and we're just outside. Not everyone knows this but when I leave to go to shows, no one is home. I have no family here in Denver. She would have to be left with a roommate or friend while the other dogs go with me. I think eventually, when she's older she'll be ok not being worked and going to shows but she's no where near that point. She loves the ring in any form and she loves to work.
 
#13 · (Edited)
It honestly sounds like a pretty selfish choice on your part. You can put whatever spin you like on it but you're still opting to get rid of her for a typical reason. Rather than commit to the dog you have which is what normal adult type people do. Instead You're going to get rid of her.... she wants to work and yet you're putting her in a home with someone with two kids? Interesting to see how someone with that much on their plate will be able to commit to 'training'.

I have a dog that didn't end up being what I'd hoped he be so we found something else to do together. It sounds to me that because for whatever reason you're unable to finish her, reputable breeders won't breed with a known byb bitch so you're absolving yourself of your responsibility to her by 'finding her a home that has time for her'.... sounds like every dog reliquished to rescue or shelters all over the world. The responsible thing would be to meet the obligation you signed up for when you purchased her. But by all means spout a song and dance.... fwiw if you loved her as much as you purport you'd find a way to make it work.
 
#16 ·
Gretchen is everything I had hoped. She's disproved what many of you have told others, myself included, many times, "A BYB can't make it in the show ring". Not only does she have a 5 point major, she has many other wins as well. She's actually easily finishable, she only needs another major. That doesn't play in it all. But why Finish a bitch and take points away from other dogs when there aren't any plans to breed?

I'm ok with your opinion and what you think of my "song and dance". The difference is, unless I'm very good, it's the same song and dance that I went to some of my best friends who are breeders, I've had the talk with Shelian, I've had it with Whitney Newman, Sharon Marinelli, Nancy Christensen.... In fact it puts me in good company with many breeders that have also rehomed dogs. I'm not doing it because I love her less. I'm doing it because I love the breed and I'm therefore choosing to not breed her. I'm doing it because I LOVE HER SO MUCH THAT ALTHOUGH IT KILLS ME! KILLS ME!!! I want to see Gretchen happy. If I thought I could make her as happy as another home could I would 100% keep her.

I'm not worried about my friend having the time with small children. She's also a horse trainer, and Miss Rodeo trainer. She hires a nanny for when she works all the other times she's a stay at home mom.

Good to see you came back, I wasn't sure after the last reaming you had.
 
#14 ·
Why get a second dog if you don't even have "time" for the first??? It just makes absolutely no sense to me. There are ways to make it work like only showing/working locally, hire a dog sitter, or paying a handler to do it for you, or better yet change what activities do with the other dog so you can properly provide for both of their needs.

A dog is a lifetime commitment (10+ years) and one can't just change priorities then use those as justification for re-homing. Don't spin this to try and make yourself feel better. I'm sorry I just have no sympathy for this kind of thing. It's different when you're already a breeder and a show prospect puppy doesn't grow out like you hoped, so you re-home it but you purchased this dog as a companion.
 
#85 · (Edited)
Just look at the past ones who did the same- BIB,
I also thought of BackInBlack when I read this thread. I know there were a good number of people on this forum that also knew her in person.

Personally, if I were Mav's breeder, I'd be seriously worried that if he doesn't stack up to be everything you think he should be, he'll be the next one out of your house. And I have a hard time believing that your obligations to his breeder include tossing out the first dog so you can concentrate on him.

While I'm at it, how "soul crushing" is it going to be for Gretchen when new owner goes to work the horses and goes to play rodeo? Isn't it really just the same thing?
If you have the perfect dog you should keep her. I would give anything to get back all of mine that are gone but not forgotten, even though none of them were perfect.
I had to re-post those as they were so right-on to the thoughts I had when I read this.



I'm going to comment here mostly for those who may be reading and are not sure where the confusion and frustration is coming from by some members here who are not at ease with this situation.

And for those of you who may know Gretchen_Red in person, please be advised that those of us reading her words are responding to just that. Her own story which she chose to share in her own words.


There is a big difference between a breeder placing a dog and placing a dog to become a breeder.


Many people have to make the difficult choice between making dogs their whole lives and doing whatever dance it takes to make it to the shows, work, trials, events, etc. I know it is very tough and you give up a lot of other areas of life even if you aren't interested in breeding. It is very time and energy consuming.

On top of all of that, so is breeding. And you need to do the above to make breeding possible, as an ethical reputable breeder (especially so if someone wants to seek breeding the 'total doberman').

So it is hard to take seriously this commitment on words alone when someone starts out, essentially, saying they cannot handle a two dog situation after less then 2 years and less then 3 years owning the breed.



I cannot speak to the exact character of Gretchen_Red or her full intentions but as an aside, from reading past posts, I would feel greatly that she too would be missing out on what the two of them could accomplish together.
 
#17 ·
Then you are rehoming her because you have decided that you will not breed her and as a result you don't have decided to put your efforts towards a new bitch that you will eventually plan to breed? I can understand that.

You don't have the time for a pet bitch. That is why you have decided to rehome her and you have taken the time to try to find a suitable home for her. That's a better explanation. It's not like a pet bitch couldn't come along to shows or be worked, even if it wasn't for titles.

Priorities change- that's fine.
 
#47 ·
Actually you can't bring a none competing dog to a show according to AKC rules. I'm not going to leave her in the car. And, although I like that you are ok with that pet bitch reason, that's not my reason for rehoming. I actually went to Nancy and said, "I've thought of a wait to keep G! I'll just spay her and enjoy her!" And we sat down and talked and came to the same decision... She'll be happier being the number one dog in another home.
 
#19 ·
I'm prepared that I will be judged for my decision and I'm ok with that. But I don't put up false pretenses to anyone, not here and not in my life.
Except the false pretenses to Gretchen that she was a part of your family when you bought her from the byb and brought her home to her "forever home".

You've made up your mind and will do what you want but this struck a nerve with me. You lecture people about not doing their research before they buy a byb puppy but you did the same thing and are rehoming her because she can't be a part of your future breeding program.

I too have a byb dog and didn't do my research before my hubby got her. I didn't even want a dog but I've taken responsibility and given her the best life! She's 7.5 and will live here entire life with her family because she deserves that.

I commend you for not breeding her and getting her spayed but I'm miffed that you speak out of both sides of your mouth.
 
#24 ·
You all can judge, I'm ok with it. You don't know me, I don't know you. I'm not going to argue with your opinions and I'm not going to defend myself. You either understand and agree with the situation and reasoning or you don't. Many people have the property and money to do things that I can't. This isn't something that came about willy nilly. It was well thought through with many opinions given. I cry over it often and it hasn't even taken place yet. You can believe whatever you want and think whatever you want. What matters to me are the people that are in my life, that love me and care about me, respect the decision I've made and even encouraged it. I've given back to this breed in the last 2.5 years then most people have in their entire lives owning Dobermans. If you think I should keep Gretchen and have her watch the door as I leave with the other dogs is where she will be happiest then you can believe that. I don't and I'm ultimately the one who had to make the decision. A decision that when thought through was "where will she be the happiest? What can I do to keep her and make her happy" always came down to she would be happier in another home. Not just any home, a home that she's been to often, that has always loved her and that can unequivocally provide for her and give her what she needs.
 
#27 ·
If you think I should keep Gretchen and have her watch the door as I leave with the other dogs is where she will be happiest then you can believe that.
That's a little like saying "Would Gretchen be happiest rehoming her or having me push her off a cliff?". Those aren't the only two choices. Why is having her watch the door as you leave with other dogs the only other choice to rehoming her?

Yeah, I don't know you. Nor do I understand how anyone who has a commitment to and bond with their dog could put the dog in another home when they have the choice to alter their own life in order to put their dog first.
 
#25 ·
How many here posting negative actually know Karen??? This is one of the problems with boards like this. While very useful information can and is posted, When someone disagrees rather then just understanding that we all have different opinions the reaction is more like sharks at the smell of blood. I was told from a few mods when I became rather outspoken that this wasn't that type of board and needed to phrase things better. Does a person ever have the right to reassess things in their life and change direction with out being called a hypocrite? If it is ok for an established breeder why is it not ok for someone else?
Before anyone ever jumps to conclusions no I haven't ever gotten rid of a dog. I have gotten a "show prospect" that never dropped. I kept him till he died on the Dr.'s table trying to remove a tumor at almost 12. But I don't stand in judgment of someone who doesn't. I have 4 dogs at my house and room for more and am able to show 3 of the 4. The fourth one is larger then breed standard. A German Shepherd. Everyone's circumstances are different. What if her money is more limited then mine or her time. Maybe how much room she has, What then? Does she have to drop all her goals because G cannot attain the level that she wants? Or is she allowed to asses where she is at and try a different avenue?
 
#29 · (Edited)
No I don't know her nor do I feel like I can be compared to a shark. I rarely post on here nowadays. I prefer to lurk and read.

But lately there have been lots of posts about what should I do with my puppy/dog and everyone always comments about the poster going to a byb and not doing research and being ill prepared blah blah blah. I'm not saying I disagree with this because I was educated on this forum and it was a slap in the face when I learned I supported a byb because I really didn't know.

So when a long time poster who has given people the gears for buying from a byb, says what is posted in this thread, it got me hot because to me it is hypocrisy and I have a right to diplomatically and respectfully state my opinion as I did. I actually commended her for not breeding Gretchen and committing to having her spayed.

I am not a breeder nor will I ever be but we are all entitled to our opinions on here.
 
#26 ·
Everyone is different, and at least you are finding her a really good home - what does her breeder think?

I've had multiple non champions and non breeders in my home - Jezebel is one of them. I keep a maximum of 3 dogs in my home - but prefer having two (which is what I have right now). There may come a time when I will rehome a dog, but I'm not there yet. So far every dog I've had has been a forever dog...... so for that reason, I'm not breeding or showing right now because I'm not ready for another dog. There also comes a time in every dogs life where their show career is over, and they are spayed or neutered. There would have to be a seriously compelling reason for me to rehome a dog at that point (like big time fighting with another dog.... and even then I worked around it). When I neutered my Harvard at age 7, it would have been like tearing my heart out to rehome him because he was not showing or breeding anymore. He will be 9 this month and is laying by my feet right now.
 
#36 ·
So we're all supposed to shut up because we happen to disagree with her decision? Last time I looked there was still this thing called freedom of speech.

You obviously haven't been here long. I've seen no end of newbies torn to shreds in threads in the time I've been here. Should a long time poster be immune to criticism when newbies seem to be fair game?
 
#34 ·
I am very much ok with people having their opinions and thinking I'm a hypocrite, you're probably close to right, I think most people are hypocrites at some point in life. Although I believe there's a major difference in posting an ad on Craigslist, or dumping her off at a shelter or willy nilly finding someone to "take her off my hands" and making a slow transition to a new well thought out home, where she will still be coming over my house regularly, but maybe that's me looking at the bright side.

No I haven't contacted the breeder, I own Gretchen outright and I would NEVER allow her to go back to them, EVER.
 
#37 ·
coco when a person says something is ok for a breeder but not ok for someone else. I don't agree with double standards for anyone. It becomes attacks when it becomes personal. A person can disagree with out calling someone a hypocrite. Just because you don't understand or even disagree with a person's line of thinking doesn't make them wrong. None of us know all the circumstances in each other's life. Why? Because it isn't any of our business. Therefore each of us know very limited information about the subject.
 
#40 ·
OK I see now you're coming for me. :2smile:

Personally I have never made a comment about being ok with a breeder rehoming a dog so please don't lump me into that category.

You're right it's none of my business. So why post it on an Internet forum for the world to see and expect to receive only accolades about your decision? That's not logical to me and I'm a very logical person. So now it's on the Internet forum that I have been a member of for years and I have a right to comment on this thread.

I never pretend to be perfect and have been a hypocrite at times in my life. The difference is that I own my **** and I take responsibility very seriously to all living, breathing creatures be that human or animal.

The bottom line is again.....i have the right to respectfully and diplomatically express my opinion on here when someone posts a thread.
 
#38 ·
Joey I'm 54 and I have been also seen new persons reamed. but you haven't seen me involved in it. I rather try to work at things from the positive side. I see nothing good coming out of attacking people with any kind of insults. What positive do you think is going to happen or result from insulting someone? Or do you think maybe calmly rationally appealing to some one in a kind way so they feel like they are talking to a friend instead of a critic would work better?
 
#44 ·
Joey all I'm saying is look at your objective. This is supposed to be a help board. One that encourages proper care of Dobermans. Notice the word encourage. that should be positive. Each one of us needs to look at how we present ourselves. I used to come across as a bully. You know what I don't like who I used to be. (neither did others) But that isn't who I am anymore. I sleep much better.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Reading this I was a little shocked, but not totally surprised.
- there is almost Zero justification, for re-homing, unless one is too old & sick to care properly, for their pet(s)
- dogs are just like children
- we don't get a choice, to select the less than perfect kid, and ship it off to the good neighbors, to raise
- with visitation privileges...Give-Me-aBreak

Now that you have fallen out of Love with Gretchen / don't go onto the next flavor of the month.
- any replacement pups in your household, should be avoided (at all cost) / time to grow up

Until you sort out your own life personally, which may take years / I say this, in a most respectful way.
- your just not ready to expand the pet family
- given your lame duck excuse, for doing so / the good neighbors, might be a better home for your Dobe
- now, that you are tired of your pet choice / given the positive & negatives scorecard
- your boy just might do very well, with a change of environment

Sorry to say !!
- some parents are not meant to have large families &/or multiple dogs (if any)...do whats best for your boy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top