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View Poll Results: Is SSA more common in bitches or dogs?
More likely in bitches 1 11.11%
More likely in dogs 7 77.78%
50/50 1 11.11%
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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SSA in Dobermans

I would like to know your opinions on SSA as well as your experience with it and owning dobermans.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:27 PM
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I have had more problems with females then males. The females were less forgiving after an incident.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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To clarify we know females don't forgive once it's happened and more instances occur but have you had it occur more often with females than males? Not sure if I was clear there? Was I?
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:34 PM
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LOL G_R.... Didn't we just beat this topic to death today? What? Are you thinking about taking in Storm permanently?
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't know we beat it to death
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 09:55 PM
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I don't crate train much.
- 1st girl (Tanya from 1977) would bark a wee bit, when we left for work.
- 2nd girl (Amy born 2000) would cry as a pup, when crated for an hour plus, on workdays.
(when she wasn't crying non-stop, she was trying to break out of the crate / and successful once)
- 3rd girl (current Kelly, year 2012) barks at door, when I shut it behind her & leave...than up on the sectional, for a nap

Only Amy had SA, totally manageable and decreased when this puppy was given free reign in our home / she had to learn, son-mom-dad would always return.
- after surgery, she cry/whined at Vets an entire shift, after surgery / Clinic let her go home a day early...LOL...she needed her family, to get healthy

Once our son had to GF's at different times, that became close friends and room-mates.
- these ladies, were often at our place & Amy loved them both dearly, and sit on couch with the girls
- funny thing though years later, I asked the two ladies to babysit Amy for an hour at their place
- Amy whinned for an hour straight / they couldn't do a thing to stop it...she could drive people nuts, to try and get her dad back

Once we had to go to a summer wedding, and would be gone several hours / out of city.
- our dear neighbor knew Amy since puppy hood and we visited or talked almost daily
- he was now retired, and had a key to our house / he would let her out for a pee
- so he thought, its a nice Saturday afternoon, I take Amy across the road and stay with him on the patio
No way, Amy hankered down and would not cross the road - her & Dad did it 1000x.
- Amy thought if she was at another house, mom & dad would never find her again
She was never destructive and was home alone since 4.5 months old - she never had SA around loved ones except for a bit of flank sucking.
God I still miss this one, that loved her boy-mom-dad equally / almost more than her individual self.


^^ Sorry if your not talking about SA (separation anxiety)...or what is SSA?

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 10:05 PM
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I've not really had enough personal experience to say either way, but we've had SSA female dobes who were absolutely fine together until they were about 6 or 7... At that point they started fighting regularly and had to be managed very intensively. They were both ok with the other non-dobe bitch in the house.


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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 10:05 PM
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@beaumont67 SSA same sex aggression
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeKick13 View Post
@beaumont67 SSA same sex aggression


O'h Da...& thanks / weak reading moment & didn't compute.

OK - SSA / male or FM ?

Never had a male, just 3 girls:
- first 2 girls, zero SSA >> Tanya medium prey drive pup / Amy was a mild driven puppy.
- only current Kelly had OSA (aka Opposite Sex Aggression) with our sons little guy Trevor (7# YorkiePoo)
- Kelly was 10 weeks old & Trevor was 7 y/o
- neither liked each other...both dogs wanted to be boss...Kelly tried to hurt Trevor, when she was 5 months old
(Mom quickly intervened / layed the LAW down & bad situation never repeated itself)

When our son visited with Mr T, both needed fully supervised to stop confrontations.
Trevor was little alpha boy & Kelly was high prey drive puppy.
>> the combination, was fuel that ignited the fire (aggression)...so to speak.

- we kept on top of the situation, without crate & rotate / used verbal corrections, when dogs body language started to change
Fortunately, last few years have been a breeze...occasionally the two will sleep beside one another...initial hard work, paid off.

SSA could be the same, in M vs FM, on historical average (??) - but could SSA stem more (wired for future), in higher prey drive pups, regardless of sex?
^^ That is my one experience !!
- all my girls were literally socialized & raised the same, and all purchased at 9 weeks old...so no rescue influence & the unknown history

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_discowhore View Post
I've not really had enough personal experience to say either way, but we've had SSA female dobes who were absolutely fine together until they were about 6 or 7... At that point they started fighting regularly and had to be managed very intensively. They were both ok with the other non-dobe bitch in the house.
Thank you for this response because I was also wanting to know at what ages but I forgot to add that.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 09:21 AM
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The only ones I have had problems with were ones that were brought in as adults over a year. Even with the females though I was able to work it out to where they could be together while I was there. But I never trusted them when I was gone, so they were separated. Some of my old guys (10+) were just old grumps when it came to some of the younger dogs. From just the people I know (not trying to start something just my experience) People who trained with negative reinforcements have had more trouble with their dogs getting along.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 11:17 AM
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In my experience (with a wide variety of breeds, not dobermans specifically) it seems to happen more frequently and intensely with females. Honestly, the worst dog fights I've been involved with have been between spayed females. I've seen countless instances of spayed females that are an absolute dream around male dogs and humans of all sorts, but lose their minds when another girl is around. It makes me wonder if perhaps early spaying and reduction in necessary hormones may be a contributing factor. That's perhaps purely coincidental, but it's been my experience.

IMO multiple dog households (regardless of breed, age, or sex) should always be prepared in the event problems arise. It's why my dogs are never left together unattended- I know of folks that have come home to find injured/dead dogs. That's not to say that SSA (or dog aggression in general) isn't more common in certain breeds or situations, but we all need to be aware of the risk.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 01:42 PM
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I have owned a number of breeds that can be prone to SSA (Rott/GSD/Dobe). All have been male, all neutered. My training has always been positive reinforcement, and all have been extensively socialized. None (knocking wood!!) have ever been aggressive to another dog- even intact dogs we have come into contact with, and all have lived with other male dogs on a short-term basis (either while I was dogsitting, while my family or friends with dogs were visiting or while I was fostering).

That being said- I have also NEVER left my dogs alone unsupervised with other dogs. I always use gates to separate, feed in separate areas and supervise all play (and intervene when necessary).

Personally, although I have often had (and still do when my folks stay with us for weeks at a time) multiple males living in my house at the same time, I would not choose to do it fulltime. Too much extra work to be worth it, at least IMO. Then again, I also choose not to have more than one dog at a time nowadays too, for the same reason.

My current boy has regular playdates (in my yard, since it is large and fenced) with mostly male dogs (Great Dane, Australian Shepherd, Border Collie, Husky/Basset cross, Golden Retriever and German Shepherd) and adores ALL of them. He is NEVER unsupervised with any of them.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 01:47 PM
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I think with a poll you are not going to get very good results, in that you don't know what experience people have with the breed, how long they've owned Dobermans, how many they've had, etc.

Many, many people refuse to believe in same sex aggression until they've experienced it.

There are a TON of threads on this topic.


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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Although I found a lot of threads on SSA, I couldn't find any that spoke about the differences between the 2 sexes and if it was more or less likely with females over males and vice versa. So I thought I would get opinions on it of those that have experienced SSA.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 02:22 PM
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I started in my head to see if I could name them all. Wow more difficult than what I thought it would be

Tip
Prince
Sabbath
Samson
Boaz
Ruth
Luke
Angel
Monique
Lynn (she was a daughter of Jonny Reb v Shores from the Goldgrove kennels)
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Reb
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lil girl
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Merrimac's Reflection V Brachmar

I couldn't even begin to name the Dobermans that were fosters or rescues. And this list is my best memory of the Dobermans that were mine. This doesn't include the Shepherds bulldogs or other mix breeds that we had. Those in the list all except for a couple stayed with us for most of their natural life. The bad thing is I know I'm missing a few and when it comes to mind I'm going to feel horrible
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Although I found a lot of threads on SSA, I couldn't find any that spoke about the differences between the 2 sexes and if it was more or less likely with females over males and vice versa. So I thought I would get opinions on it of those that have experienced SSA.
That would be because there is no concrete answer.

I wouldn't say one side is more prone by any means but the distinction or popular thought is that between males and females it tends to be that males (for the most part) can live under the same roof but separated without an issue and/or are easier to break up, whereas females hold a lifelong grudge and will be hell bent for revenge and a pain in the ass to get apart.
(personal experience on the fight separating bits above, 10 minutes for boys and 30 for the girls with spit on the boys and a broken thumb, and several lacerations between the two for the girls...)

I've experienced both male and female fights and would rather be forced to deal with boys than bitches, as always they have that name for a reason.

The two boys I had to deal with only fought if the opportunity was carelessly presented.
The females, one pair in particular, fought for no damn reason and the one was hell bent to finish the job the rest of their life and they could never be together again. Not to say this is a guarantee, as there were quite a few more girls in the house who had had their tiffs and then resumed life as normal hours,days, or weeks later....

It's all very dog to dog or bitch to bitch as you will and opinion/answer will always vary on experience.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 04:17 PM
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I have always had 2 to 3 girls at once (usually all dobes except recently with a Pitbull). For the most part they get along without being managed much. The only exception was Princess (RIP) and Sheba (RIP) had a fight that brought Sheba to the ER for stitches. I am only having issues with my male dobe and my female Pit (same age). I have never had two male dobes at once. The females I have right now get along fine (ages 9, 3 and 2 years old).
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 04:25 PM
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I must say that at the dog park there is a man who owns two male dogs (doberman and rottweiler) and they are trained very well. He used to train dogs for the police department. He told me that he never has a problem with SSA, but I really think he is the exception, not the rule.
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