size and build - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Doberman Related Chat If your post does not fit into any other category post here.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
size and build

Hi guys I have a 15 month old male doberman. I believe he is on the smaller side of the breed. I have seen Dobermans which seem to be bigger than my boy. I want to see what you guys think. He weighs around 38kg.
kingDobermann is offline  
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 09:57 AM
Dobes stole my heart <3
 
StarlightDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,418
Location: Shelby Twp. Michigan
Dogs Name: Nexus - Bella - Lily (R.I.P. Mysti)
Titles: Nexus = Spaztastic - Bella = NoNo Bad Dog - Lily = Tiger Shark!
Dogs Age: Nexus = 4/14/2010 Bella = 2/19/2011 Lily = 6/27/2014
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit StarlightDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 1,079
Thanked 5,724 Times in 2,332 Posts
Images: 6
                     
in this breed, bigger is not better. They are a medium sized breed, averaging between 65 to 75 lbs. European bred dogs can be a bit bigger, but if the vet isnt concerned I wouldnt be either, for his age he seems to be fine. I have a full grown female that is only 65 lbs, and one that is 81 (she is half euro bred so she is a bit bigger) As long as he is healthy and isnt showing signs of being too think I would not worry at all.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. - Bernard Williams

R.I.P. Mysti 1/25/02-10/21/10
StarlightDobe is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to StarlightDobe For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (04-03-2015)
post #3 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 10:25 AM
Alpha
 
bigfootlives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,996
Location: Alaska
Titles: AKC S.T.A.R. Puppy
Dogs Age: d.o.b 03/09/2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit bigfootlives's Gallery
Thanks: 6,766
Thanked 3,903 Times in 1,420 Posts
                     
He is not on the smaller size - he is within standard! Just as he should be. You don't want a large doberman because it comes with many costly health issues. Our boy was 75lbs at 12 months, for reference.

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
bigfootlives is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bigfootlives For This Useful Post:
Gretchen_Red (04-03-2015), kmbeach22 (04-03-2015)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 10:33 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,191
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,309
Thanked 31,480 Times in 10,433 Posts
                     
Well, 38 kg is about 84 pounds, so yes, he is on the smaller side of the FCI standard. More important than the number on the scale, though, is how he looks. If he's in good condition, and not showing a lot of ribs and hipbones, he's fine. If you can count every rib and bony protuberance in his spine just by looking at him, he's too thin. If he looks like a sausage, and you can't feel his ribs without really trying, he's overweight. If you are looking at, and comparing him to, adult male European show dogs, just be aware that most of them are shown well over their ideal weight.

Don't forget, at 15 months, he's not fully mature yet, and will still do some "filling out".


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (04-03-2015), dobebug (04-03-2015), falnfenix (04-03-2015), JustGran (04-11-2015), melbrod (04-07-2015), ShelianDobe (04-03-2015)
post #5 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 11:16 AM
Love the Nub
 
kmbeach22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,897
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Arrow aka Sirai's Lights Camera Action!
Titles: Spoiled brat, Smexy supermodel
Dogs Age: 4, under 1
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit kmbeach22's Gallery
Thanks: 15,827
Thanked 12,521 Times in 3,794 Posts
Images: 13
                     
size and build

I am not a fan of FCI's weight standard in there. That said, 84lbs at 15 months is not small by any means. I wouldn't try to beef him up any. Do you have a pic? It really depends on his structure?



We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals. - Immanuel Kant
kmbeach22 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to kmbeach22 For This Useful Post:
melbrod (04-07-2015), Q734 (04-10-2015), RedFawnRising (04-03-2015), Rosemary (04-03-2015)
post #6 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 11:46 AM
Extraordimary
 
MaryAndDobes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,873
Location: Ontario, Canada
Dogs Name: Moxie, Copper & Wicca
Titles: Yes
Dogs Age: 12, 11 & 7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit MaryAndDobes's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16,657 Times in 3,264 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlightDobe View Post
They are a medium sized breed, averaging between 65 to 75 lbs.
First of all, there are no weights mentioned in the American standard. Secondly, I'd say your averaging low for males anyway. IMO, north American males are generally around 75-90 lbs, and females generally 60-75.

MaryAndDobes is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to MaryAndDobes For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (04-03-2015), Brandy&Melanie (04-03-2015), brw1982 (04-05-2015), dobebug (04-03-2015), greenkouki (04-04-2015), MeadowCat (04-04-2015), reddobes (04-03-2015), RedFawnRising (04-03-2015), Rosemary (04-03-2015), spocksdad (04-04-2015), vivienne00 (04-03-2015)
post #7 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 01:41 PM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,563
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,234
Thanked 5,683 Times in 2,243 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Do you have any pix you can post?
Gretchen_Red is offline  
post #8 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 02:45 PM
Alpha
 
Maria1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,453
Location: Portugal
Dogs Name: Keon Eleck
Titles: no
Dogs Age: 2 yr
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit Maria1's Gallery
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 2,854 Times in 1,735 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Just for comparison purposes, my boy at 15 months was 28Kg, yes he is on the slim side, doesn't seem to keep weight on, but he is very active and energetic, though at some points for me that was an issue, the vet has said many times over that as long as he is healthy, sometimes slimmer is better.
Maria1 is offline  
post #9 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 05:20 PM
Always Grateful
 
triciakoontz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,947
Location: Durham, NC
Dogs Name: Mercury's Prince of the Universe (Boon)
Titles: CFFII,NW1, NW2, NWE1, CFFIII, CFFIV
Dogs Age: 12/29/12
Gallery Pics: 22
Visit triciakoontz's Gallery
Thanks: 9,005
Thanked 12,656 Times in 4,151 Posts
Images: 22
                     
My boy Boon is 84 pounds and one solid muscle of a perfectly standard Doberman. I'm very surprised that people are saying that weight is on the small side for a male Doberman!

THE BOONDOGGLE
triciakoontz is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to triciakoontz For This Useful Post:
greenkouki (04-04-2015), Gretchen_Red (04-03-2015)
post #10 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 06:00 PM
Alpha
 
DreamingDoberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 979

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit DreamingDoberman's Gallery
Thanks: 436
Thanked 1,815 Times in 669 Posts
                     
I'm thinking but can't be sure if you posted this on the other forum... Someone posted this age/weight/height/picture and he didn't look small at all!

If that was you and your dog, he looked perfect to me.


"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either." -unknown
DreamingDoberman is offline  
post #11 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 06:05 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,191
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,309
Thanked 31,480 Times in 10,433 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
My boy Boon is 84 pounds and one solid muscle of a perfectly standard Doberman. I'm very surprised that people are saying that weight is on the small side for a male Doberman!
FCI standard-

SIZE AND WEIGHT :
Height at withers : Males : 68 – 72 cm. (26.77 – 28.35 in.)
Bitches : 63 – 68 cm. (24.80 – 26.77 in.)
Medium size desirable.
Weight : Males : about 40 – 45 kg. (88.18 – 99.21 lb.)
Bitches : about 32 – 35 kg. (70.55 – 77.16 lb.)

Since he gave the dog's weight in kilograms, I simply assumed (bad person, I know) that he is in a country that follows the FCI standard.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
falnfenix (04-03-2015)
post #12 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
I can't seem to upload a photo of him for some reason. I feed him premium food since he was a pup. I might have to put him on something with higher protein content. Current one his on is around 31% protein. I have seen 42% protein in one or two brands. Perhaps maybe even adding one egg a day to his current intake might push the protein a little higher. What do you guys recommend? What kind of food? Add raw meat?
kingDobermann is offline  
post #13 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 09:40 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,191
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,309
Thanked 31,480 Times in 10,433 Posts
                     
Most of us here use a photo hosting site like Photobucket or Flickr, and copy/paste the image codes.

Unless he is seriously underweight, I wouldn't even try making him gain. And even with seriously underweight dogs you can't simply pour a bunch of food down them and hope for the best. Feeding more than the dog can handle will only make things worse.

If he's currently at a good weight, making him fat won't help matters, and will only make things worse. Being overweight, especially from a young age, can lead to orthopedic issues, as well as affect their organs. It's entirely possible that the "bigger" dogs you are comparing him to are oversized, overweight dogs.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (04-04-2015), falnfenix (04-04-2015), melbrod (04-07-2015), RedFawnRising (04-09-2015)
post #14 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 10:54 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,871
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,005
Thanked 59,882 Times in 16,171 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
People get so fixated on size and weight. While yes, it's important for breeders to try and breed dogs within the standard, each owner should look at their dog and ask, is my dog at a good weight for his/her frame? Does my dog have good muscle tone?

In my opinion, keeping your own dog fit and healthy for his/her own body is more important than anything else.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
JustGran (04-11-2015), RedFawnRising (04-09-2015), Rosemary (04-04-2015), TNfisher (04-10-2015), triciakoontz (04-04-2015)
post #15 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 01:06 PM
Alpha
 
Zeblar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 974
Location: South West England
Dogs Name: Odin
Dogs Age: 18 Apr 2010
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Zeblar's Gallery
Thanks: 4,413
Thanked 2,930 Times in 749 Posts
                     
38kg is pretty big for 15 months old in my opinion. Odin only weighs about 36kg now at nearly 5 years old. As long as your dog is healthy and looks good for muscle tone etc I wouldn't worry about what he weighs to be honest.

Zeblar is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Zeblar For This Useful Post:
JustGran (04-11-2015)
post #16 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/Diesel88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150219_122515_zpsxyluoqij.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah293/Diesel88/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150219_122515_zpsxyluoqij.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20150219_122515_zpsxyluoqij.jpg"/></a>
kingDobermann is offline  
post #17 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
How do I upload photos? I have opened a photobucket account but what codes do I copy? Once copied where do I paste it? Can someone tell me step by step pleaseeee
kingDobermann is offline  
post #18 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 10:02 AM
Dobes stole my heart &lt;3
 
StarlightDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,418
Location: Shelby Twp. Michigan
Dogs Name: Nexus - Bella - Lily (R.I.P. Mysti)
Titles: Nexus = Spaztastic - Bella = NoNo Bad Dog - Lily = Tiger Shark!
Dogs Age: Nexus = 4/14/2010 Bella = 2/19/2011 Lily = 6/27/2014
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit StarlightDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 1,079
Thanked 5,724 Times in 2,332 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
First of all, there are no weights mentioned in the American standard. Secondly, I'd say your averaging low for males anyway. IMO, north American males are generally around 75-90 lbs, and females generally 60-75.
well, I didnt say "the standard says ....." I said "averaging between ..." but my opinion is based on what I have seen, I guess I am wrong ..... lesson learned.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. - Bernard Williams

R.I.P. Mysti 1/25/02-10/21/10
StarlightDobe is offline  
post #19 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 07:47 PM
Alpha
 
DreamingDoberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 979

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit DreamingDoberman's Gallery
Thanks: 436
Thanked 1,815 Times in 669 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingDobermann View Post
How do I upload photos? I have opened a photobucket account but what codes do I copy? Once copied where do I paste it? Can someone tell me step by step pleaseeee
On the side of each picture in photobucket, I click the "IMG" code. (I believe it is the 3rd code down in the list). Copy and paste directly in this thread and post and the picture will show up.


"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either." -unknown
DreamingDoberman is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DreamingDoberman For This Useful Post:
melbrod (04-07-2015)
post #20 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 08:33 PM
Pro Snake Wiggler
 
Jazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,247
Location: Southern MD
Dogs Name: Rebholzer Chasing the Moon "Creed", RIP Skoll
Titles: SD, CGCA, WAC, ATT
Dogs Age: 04/12/2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Jazi's Gallery
Thanks: 2,891
Thanked 6,830 Times in 1,724 Posts
                     
There you go, OP

SD Rebholzer Chasing the Moon CGCA WAC ATT; Creed - Jazi's Stalkin the Light Bringer; Skoll
Just know you're not alone cause I'm gunna make this place your home.
You will never sleep alone, I'll love you long after you're gone.
Jazi is offline  
post #21 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
kingDobermann is offline  
post #22 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
kingDobermann is offline  
post #23 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
So those are two photos of my boy. Can you make comment on his size and weight. 15 months old and 84lbs. I believe his on the smaller side of the breed.
kingDobermann is offline  
post #24 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 05:31 AM
ಠ_ಠ
 
falnfenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,386
Location: Baltimore
Dogs Name: Ripley; R.I.P. Deckard
Titles: WAC
Dogs Age: DOB 7/8/13
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit falnfenix's Gallery
Thanks: 16,926
Thanked 13,821 Times in 4,611 Posts
                     
frankly, i'd like to see him lighter. he could benefit from a pound or two gone, i think. how tall is he at the shoulder?

“I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.”
- the Luidaeg, Chimes at Midnight

DPCA Chapter Club: http://www.mbdpc.net/
Regional rescue: http://www.dobe.net/
falnfenix is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to falnfenix For This Useful Post:
eighmie (04-10-2015), kmbeach22 (04-07-2015), MeadowCat (04-06-2015), melbrod (04-07-2015), RedFawnRising (04-09-2015), Rosemary (04-06-2015), vivienne00 (04-06-2015)
post #25 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 06:03 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 26
Dogs Name: Beast
Dogs Age: 16 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kingDobermann's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Last time I measured him he was 27.5inch. I don't know if he gain anymore weight from now on. Some days I give him 1 kg of meat. Other days he has dry food about 6 cups.
kingDobermann is offline  
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome