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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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New here and some questions

Good morning all!
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in, but here goes!

I have been lurking and reading, reading and lurking<G> And I was just wondering how do you define 'high drive' in a Dobe?

I know it sounds a silly question, so perhaps a bit of background would help me sound less silly. I am currently raising an absolutely delightful Dobe boy. six months of age. I read here about the high drive European dogs,(his pedigree does contain a good percentage European dogs) and as my frame of reference is in another breed altogether, I was simply wondering about the definition of high drive? For those who participate in IPO, Sch what are the differences you see between a Dobe and say, a Malinois?

I'd like to figure out where this boy fits in, he has been a delightful dog to live and work with, and if he is within the 'norm' he has about convinced me my next dog is going to be a Doberman!

Thanks in advance, I hope I was clear enough in my question, it is early yet, and I'm only one cup of coffee into the day<G>

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 08:48 AM
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Welcome!

I can't help you with your question, but sure plenty of people here with that knowledge.

I can only sa that pictures are always a plus
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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I'll try! I've got some on my phone, but admit to being a bit 'challenged' when it comes to transferring those to the computer<G> He's an attractive boy, at least to my eye he is. After almost 40 years in my breed, he's been an eye opener for me! A very pleasant eye opener for sure. I'm going to cry when he goes back to his owner. Long story short, she ran into some unexpected life problems, and I volunteered to take him on till things settled down, I am so glad I did!
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 09:34 AM
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Each dog will have their own personality, just like people. Also, some lines will be drivier overall that others. When you say your boy has a high percentage of Euro lines, the question is "what lines?". Working lines or show lines? A true working line dog will tend to be higher in drive than a show line dog.


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:15 AM
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I don't know what 'high drive' is defined as. But I would describe my boy as 'low drive' lol.

low drive - can lay in the grass and watch a rabbit / critter go by, and not get up or move because he doesn't know what it is or dosent care. will chase toys, but gets bored of fetch / tug and would rather go for a walk or hike. will chase the cat around the house a bit if he is feeling fiesty, but would never hurt her (besides the occastional pawing).

I'm sure someone can describe high drive around here

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Altobello, Del Citone, Ashanti, Tom Dober? I couldn't tell you which these are? I know a wee bit from reading here, and looking at pedigrees on Kansa's site, but that's about as far as it goes!

He is not from an American show breeder, though his sire and dam are both OFA, thyroid, vWD, and DCM(?) gene test negative for any copies. So the breeder did at least some health testing on sire and dam.

Sorry for my ignorance! In my breed we don't have a show/working split per se.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:28 AM
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I've only had minimal experience watching bite/protection sport, and only with GSDs.

However, those dogs have a significant prey drive and are harder tempered than any dog I've ever owned or encountered in normal day to day walks and trips to petco. They also are much better behaved but, their owner and trainer is not a novice. He picks dogs with a tougher temperament and also looks at the endurance and stamina of the parents/lineage.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:40 AM
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I think when people talk about "high drive," they're usually talking about high prey drive. A Dobe with high prey drive is like any other dog with high prey drive: it is exceptionally interested in chasing, fetching, tugging, shaking. It's a dog that can't watch a jogger or a bicyclist or a squirrel go by without getting aroused; it's a dog that begs to play tug and could play all day. If you're hoping to compete with your dog, you can take advantage of that high drive in training — you get your dog excited and ready to work with the promise/expectation of play or chasing and reward with those activities. High drive dogs can be easier to train, at least initially, because they are relatively easy to motivate, but they also get bored quickly.

High drive is different, to me, than temperament. Your dog can have a soft or a hard temperament. I think, as mommyblaze3 mentioned, dogs with harder temperaments are often preferred for bite work. My Dobe has an exceptionally soft temperament but a pretty good drive, so we do rally and obedience and reward his performances with tug.

I don't know if that answered your question or not. But, on another note, welcome to DT!
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:44 AM
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Altobello and Del Citone are show kennels, and I think Ashanti is as well. The other one, I'm unfamiliar with. Altobello is a commercial kennel that turns out a large number of puppies, and sells them willy-nilly, especially to people here in the US who have hopped on the "Euros are better" craze.

Here is a good blog post about drive in dogs. High Drive Dogs | Paws Abilities


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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http://www.dobermann-review.com/db/p...e_pixirwlv.jpg

http://www.dobermann-review.com/db/p...r_ozcfqlol.jpg

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(maternal grandsire)

http://www.dobermann-review.com/db/p...e_tlwqsokp.jpg

some of what I could find, he wasn't purchased as a show prospect, but simply as a companion. She just wanted a good temperament wrapped in an attractive package, hopefully with good health!

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! Mommyblaze, you really answered well. I'm used to high prey drive, and I love/prefer a tough, confident dog. So that really did sort of clarify things for me.I am very used to spending a lot of time on early socializing, and don't the least mind aloof and reserved(not shy!) Any suggestions on places to start my own puppy search? I'm a good bit of time away from being able to get a pup due to the pensioners already here(have 4 of my own, from 3 years up to almost 14) But would like to start searching and researching, get to know folks and familiarize myself with the style and temperament of the dogs these breeders produce. Thanks loads to all for taking the time to answer!
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post

Here is a good blog post about drive in dogs. High Drive Dogs | Paws Abilities
Good article.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windamyr View Post
Thanks guys! Mommyblaze, you really answered well. I'm used to high prey drive, and I love/prefer a tough, confident dog. So that really did sort of clarify things for me.I am very used to spending a lot of time on early socializing, and don't the least mind aloof and reserved(not shy!) Any suggestions on places to start my own puppy search? I'm a good bit of time away from being able to get a pup due to the pensioners already here(have 4 of my own, from 3 years up to almost 14) But would like to start searching and researching, get to know folks and familiarize myself with the style and temperament of the dogs these breeders produce. Thanks loads to all for taking the time to answer!
What do you want to do with your doberman? Do you want a buddy to watch tv with you, someone to do agility, obedience or schutzhund? Knowing this will help people know what breeder to point you in their direction.

In heart testing you want to look for 24 hour holters and echo. The PDK4 genetic testing doesn't really mean anything at this point. It IS NOT predictive of whether or not a doberman will develop DCM.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilasPup View Post
I think when people talk about "high drive," they're usually talking about high prey drive.
I would agree with you that probably is what most people are talking about. However, there are all kinds of other drives - food, play/toy, sex, fight, work, etc. So it's really not accurate to just say a dog has high drive. High drive in what? Low drive in what?

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
I would agree with you that probably is what most people are talking about. However, there are all kinds of other drives - food, play/toy, sex, fight, work, etc. So it's really not accurate to just say a dog has high drive. High drive in what? Low drive in what?
Yes, absolutely -- I was trying to keep it simple for the sake of clarity, and because it seemed like the OP was referring to prey drive, but a dog can have all kinds of other drives. Very good point.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:08 PM
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^^^ Good point. ...We all know where Cash's high "drive" lies...and it ain't squirrels. Lololol kidding, sorry, too good of an opportunity to miss.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Mary!

I have Belgians, high prey drive, food, play, defense to varying degrees, can be reactive. What would I be doing, more than likely obedience, would have to look into Sch clubs in my area and see if there is one, and how good they are. Haven't done Sch in a LONG time!

I like confidence, good nerves, tough even is fine, independent,with balanced drives, I don't want crazy, I don't want soft and needy. I like a dog who can go out and work or play hard, but has an off switch too. Belgians have been my breed of choice since the late 70's, and I'm more than decent at socializing youngsters and ending up with good adults. This Dobe has been a real eye opener for me, I had forgotten what it was like to have anything BUT a Belgian in the house! ANd I kinda like it at this stage of life! I'm not in the market for a while, I've got two old dogs who will have to cross the Bridge before I'll bring a permanent pup home. One is almost 14, the other 12, then we drop down to 9 and 3. My youngest dog has a mild form of PHPV, so while I'll finish him, he won't ever be bred even though for us it is breeder option. Living with Belgians we do live with health issues that can crop up, though the PHPV was a new one on me! Epilepsy, gastric carcinoma, probably the worst two right there. Anyway, I hope that helps a bit in sorting out what I like, what I can handle, and what I can't.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 08:33 PM
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Finish like in AKC championship or UKC or what?

Try going to the UKC breeder listing as I believe most of those are working breeders.

DCM is a biggie in dobermans as approximately 50% will develop and die of the disease at varying ages, from young to old. You really need a breeder that knows the history of the ancestors. If a breeder says they don't have DCM in their lines, LEAVE. All lines have DCM in them as there is no such thing as a cardio free line tho some disreputable breeders will tell you that.

Look for very recent 24 hour holter and echos on the sire and dam of any litter you are considering. Along with recent thyroid, liver, cerf(eyes). Also one time testing of vWD status, hips and elbows. I know I'm forgetting something.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-13-2014, 10:45 AM
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Penny is a very needy girl,( I am sure I have made her that way.When we were in training I was always called out for touching her and talking to her) That said if it moves and is in the yard she will nail it in seconds. She is very fast. I will admit I know very little and DT is something I read every day.I would think thats high prey drive?
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-13-2014, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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I show AKC,(conformation, obedience) haven't ventured into UKC at all! Thank you for all the info Linda!
DCM advice sounds like me with Belgians, I always tell people, it IS there, if someone tells you it's not, they're either ignorant, deliberately lying, or both. Run do not walk away from claims of epilepsy free pedigree, people who truly know the breed and the pedigrees can tell you exactly where the epilepsy is, sounds like DCM is similar, the shame is not in having an issue in a pedigree, it's in not admitting to it and working away from it to the best of your ability

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