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View Poll Results: What do you think about the trend toward longer docked tails?
I like the longer docked tails. 8 7.55%
I don't like the longer docked tails. 86 81.13%
I don't really care. 12 11.32%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Opinion on longer docked tail trend?

What about the trend toward longer docked tails? I dislike super-short tails because you can't easily see the dog's body language signals. However, I hate the new trend toward way longer tails. I think they look like a tail that has been injured and had to be amputated at an odd length. I don't think they fit the Doberman profile standard at all.

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post #2 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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I think that Boon's tail is as long as it needs to be to show his body language signals. If it were any longer I think it would look really weird.

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Last edited by triciakoontz; 10-11-2015 at 06:23 PM.
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post #3 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:15 PM
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Is this an example of a longer tail?
The Westminster Kennel Club | Breed Information: Doberman Pinscher

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post #4 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:38 PM
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I asked my vet to do my puppies a little on the longer side. Not long, but longer. They average about 2.5 joints, and I think they are overall perfect.

I asked for them to be longer because you cant fix them if they are too short. If I need tail repairs done at ear cropping, I wanted the vet to have something to work with. As it happened, the tails were fine and didn't need any repairs, thank dog!
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post #5 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:03 PM
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well...you won't have to worry about the length of the tails soon..

Once the breed standard is changed by the Germans,(banning cropping & docking) it will be a matter of time this new change catches up across the big pond..


You will then start discussing whether you like it curled or arched up

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post #6 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraDobe View Post
I asked my vet to do my puppies a little on the longer side. Not long, but longer. They average about 2.5 joints, and I think they are overall perfect.

I asked for them to be longer because you cant fix them if they are too short. If I need tail repairs done at ear cropping, I wanted the vet to have something to work with. As it happened, the tails were fine and didn't need any repairs, thank dog!
Most likely the docking was done between the third and fourth joint. Obviously, no one amputates in the middle of a vertebra. If the veterinarian has good skills they leave enough tissue and finish the tail nicely so that it is about half the length of a vertebrae beyond the docking point. I have lately seen quite a few docked tales where 4 vertebrae were left and these are really long. Also some dogs have much longer vertebrae in this area of the tail than others do and leaving three or four vertebrae gives them a much longer tail than some of their littermates. This is difficult to predict when they are little puppies.

I understand the reason for leaving an extra vertebrae that could be taken off if the tail needs revision but that could easily leave a whole litter with significantly longer tails. My concern is: Will this practice change the standard? I think some vets are leaving whole litters with four vertebrae and these are the long weird-looking tails IMO. It is likely that this decision is made by the breeder and not the veterinarian, of course.

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post #7 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
well...you won't have to worry about the length of the tails soon..

Once the breed standard is changed by the Germans,(banning cropping & docking) it will be a matter of time this new change catches up across the big pond..


You will then start discussing whether you like it curled or arched up
Really hoping that the Germans won't change a dog that originated in their country!! But, who knows?

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post #8 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:10 PM
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Really hoping that the Germans won't change a dog that originated in their country!! But, who knows?
Well...you are a bit late for hoping the standard doesn't change..

It's already done..

New standard will be in place after 1st of January 2015!!

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post #9 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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I was so shocked by the non-standard head (being politically correct) that I had a hard time finding the tail! What a poor example of a dog to have on a prestigious website. That tail is probably three vertebrae long and it is verging on too long in my opinion.

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post #10 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:13 PM
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I say either the norm short dock or leave natural. I've seen too many long dock tails tap on the ground when the dogs sit and other uncomfortable things.
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post #11 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Most likely the docking was done between the third and fourth joint. Obviously, no one amputates in the middle of a vertebra. If the veterinarian has good skills they leave enough tissue and finish the tail nicely so that it is about half the length of a vertebrae beyond the docking point. I have lately seen quite a few docked tales where 4 vertebrae were left and these are really long. Also some dogs have much longer vertebrae in this area of the tail than others do and leaving three or four vertebrae gives them a much longer tail than some of their littermates. This is difficult to predict when they are little puppies.

I understand the reason for leaving an extra vertebrae that could be taken off if the tail needs revision but that could easily leave a whole litter with significantly longer tails. My concern is: Will this practice change the standard? I think some vets are leaving whole litters with four vertebrae and these are the long weird-looking tails IMO. It is likely that this decision is made by the breeder and not the veterinarian, of course.
Like I said, it was an average. Some are right at about 2, and some are at 3. None are at 4. I don't like tails that are that long either, but if the tail is docked long at 3 days, and its clean at ear cropping, its not worth it to me to amputate the two vertebrae at the end.

No, I don't think it will change the standard. The DPCA is very, very hesitant to open the standard up to any revision.

Guilty was docked at 2.5 vertebrae. I didn't even realize this until she had her hips x-rayed for OFA.


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post #12 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 02:53 PM
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Ivan's last vertebra was sheared off at an angle leaving a nice pointy wedge, so I wouldn't be surprised at any combination with "any vet" feeling competent enough to dock. Although I shouldn't necessarily assume it was a vet either.
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post #13 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobedream View Post
I personally like that length and do prefer that over some that seem too short to me. Just my opinion.

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post #14 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 07:53 AM
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I like a shorter tail - but whoever does the docking needs to know where to cut - not so easy on a 3 day old puppy. I've seen it done 3 times now and they always ended up at a good spot..... but my docker knows what she is doing.

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post #15 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 08:04 AM
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ICEMAN, are you saying that as of 2015 that the USA will no longer ALLOW docking/cropping? I HOPE that is NOT true.
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post #16 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 08:10 AM
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ICEMAN, are you saying that as of 2015 that the USA will no longer ALLOW docking/cropping? I HOPE that is NOT true.
https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ry-2015-a.html

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post #17 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 10:49 AM
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I don't like the longer docks at all. It overtakes the nicest of dogs for me. I can't help but stare at how ridiculous it looks. One of my pet peeves, particularly since it CAN be controlled unlike most flaws on a dog. I'd prefer a full tail to a loooooong dock.

I don't like too short docks either but if I had to pick between the 2, personally, I'd rather have a dock on the short side than on the long side. Long docks look ridiculous on Dobermans. So much so that if I were to get a puppy from a breeder with a long dock I'd request a re-dock to take off the excess length. If I'm going to have a docked dog it better be attractively docked. Just as if I received a puppy with a hideous crop I'd request a re-crop.



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post #18 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 11:26 AM
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AKC is seperate from the FCI and I doubt the AKC will follow them in the standard.

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post #19 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 11:30 AM
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AKC is seperate from the FCI and I doubt the AKC will follow them in the standard.
Maybe not straight away.............but its only a matter of time!!

Sooner or later AKC will also change their standard...

no need to argue over it......time will tell.

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post #20 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 12:13 PM
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Triciakoontz ~ I am fairly new to the breed and admit I need help. What is wrong with the AKC standard head? How would you change the illustration?
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post #21 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 03:16 PM
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I personally like that length and do prefer that over some that seem too short to me. Just my opinion.
That's why I asked. Because I like that length too.

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post #22 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 03:26 PM
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The c/d exclusions thing came up with the IDC rule change, too...but few Dobe folks in North America care about what the IDC allows or disallows in its shows, either.

Short of a legislative change that the AKC/DPCA have to respect, c/d exclusions just aren't going to happen voluntarily. It's not like the looks that win in NA shows are going to enjoy even a little success on the international show circuit to begin with, so why should anyone here care what their rules are?

As far as docked tails go, I like the Rottie-style dock, the short, round nub, a whole lot more than the longer bobtail style.
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post #23 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 04:03 PM
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My stance is to just leave the tail. Otherwise, is there a functional reason to go longer or shorter?

Speaking of, I'd also never crop the ears.
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post #24 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 11:03 PM
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I think when the National Clubs are using as one of their reasons to not accept natural tails because they are not the standard, they should not "accept" the longer docked tail either. The standard is clearly written. If they want to keep it then the longer docked tails should be faulted equally. Can't suck and blow..jmho.
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post #25 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 11:34 PM
Love the Nub
 
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I like Jasmine's nub length. Her nub is one of her best assets!

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I doubt the AKC will change the standard here anytime soon, and if they did, I don't think it will have anything to do with the fact that the FCI changed theirs. It would have to do with public policy and federal and state laws here in the U.S. if they did. Most of the FCI countries had already banned tail docking and ear cropping from what I understand.



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