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View Poll Results: What do you think about the trend toward longer docked tails?
I like the longer docked tails. 8 7.55%
I don't like the longer docked tails. 86 81.13%
I don't really care. 12 11.32%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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post #26 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
Triciakoontz ~ I am fairly new to the breed and admit I need help. What is wrong with the AKC standard head? How would you change the illustration?
Thanks,
I love the STANDARD head. I don't think the Westminster dog shows a standard head. Here is a link to the DPCA illustrated standard for the head.

1) I don't think the head on the Westminster dog has adequate under-jaw (you can see this in the extreme angle at the front of the muzzle in the photo below which was cropped from the Westminster website).

2) I don't think the Westminster Doberman head has enough stop. This makes the top of the profile almost look like one long continuous line from ears to nose - it really "elongates" the face.

3) I think the Westminster head has very shallow depth from top to bottom in the jaw area and the muzzle area). This is illustrated by the profile; it is more of a long skinny trapezoid than a blunt wedge.

Of course, all of this is just my humble opinion, and, differing opinions on Doberman heads are as common as ants at a picnic!


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post #27 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
Well...you are a bit late for hoping the standard doesn't change..

It's already done..

New standard will be in place after 1st of January 2015!!
I don't think most people in North America really give a crap about the Germans.
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post #28 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
I don't think most people in North America really give a crap about the Germans.
That's exactly what we (Eastern European countries) said when they banned cropping in most of the Western Europe back in 1992...look where we are now..

I know you Americans don't give a crap about what goes on in the rest of the world but this is a different issue and its only a mater of time
the Animal Welfare groups convince your politicians to "advice" AKC to comply with the rest of the word on this matter.

like it or not,it's all politics.....dont't tell me you don't give a crap about politics either!!

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post #29 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 10:29 AM
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Triciakoontz ~ thank you! I can see exactly what you are saying and I appreciate your response to this. It really helps.
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post #30 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
I don't think most people in North America really give a crap about the Germans.
Um, I care about what is changing with Doberman standards around the world and so do many others. Perhaps you meant to say that you don't give a crap? Speaking for others is usually a crapshoot.

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post #31 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 05:26 PM
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tail

Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
I think that Boon's tail is as long as it needs to be to show his body language signals. If it were any longer I think it would look really weird.
I love the tail, my Dobermans tail is the same , looks great to me .
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post #32 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 10:59 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, the FCI should take a long walk off a short pier. They don;t get to dictate international standards. I support an owner/breeder's right to choose to crop/dock.
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post #33 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-30-2014, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglvr View Post
As far as I'm concerned, the FCI should take a long walk off a short pier. They don;t get to dictate international standards. I support an owner/breeder's right to choose to crop/dock.
Well, they actually DO get to dictate the international standard if you want to show in that organization for a title.

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Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
Triciakoontz ~ thank you! I can see exactly what you are saying and I appreciate your response to this. It really helps.
Glad it helped. I love my boy Boon's head. These were taken at almost 12 months. I think he has nice underjaw, plenty of depth but not coarse , a perfect amount of stop, and good parallel planes. He has a blunt wedge from front view and profile + also has nice dark almond eyes. I am more than a bit prejudiced!

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post #34 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-30-2014, 05:17 PM
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I think you have a right to be prejudiced. Just beautiful! I love it.
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post #35 of 66 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 12:22 PM
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My dog has an extremely long dock, I hated it at first but have grown to love it, or maybe I just love him... He is my first one so I didn't know it could be fixed and now it's too late... I was never planning to show him but he is a very handsome dog besides his quirky tail


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post #36 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 11:07 AM
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I have mixed emotions on tails .. I have 2 girls right now, that when the tail is down it looks so short, but when held up it looks normal, both are at 2 vertebrae, but lemme tell ya when you have to grab it for any reason its HARD to get it up, if it were a bit longer it would make it so much easier, and in that respect I like it longer, as for appearance, I like the standard shorter tail.

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post #37 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 03:55 PM
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My 5 month old has a very long tail as well, way longer than my 3 month old girl, but I love it especially when he is really happy and he wiggles his tail fast his whole booty wiggles its adorable

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post #38 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 05:00 PM
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I voted #2 saying I don't like the longer tail dock ....but Smokie's is cut too long and I have to say....she's a cutie pie when she wags it.....
Although I notice when she sits, it hits the ground and curls under.....it looks like she has a kick stand holding her up!
Two things I see the most with it is it makes for a great private part cover when Bandit starts sniffing there too much....and it also gives Bandit something to grab when Smokie is being ornery and slips past him and nips his jewels...!
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post #39 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 01:26 AM
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Opinion on longer docked tail trend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigo View Post
My 5 month old has a very long tail as well, way longer than my 3 month old girl, but I love it especially when he is really happy and he wiggles his tail fast his whole booty wiggles its adorable



here is a pic

Lol looks just like my Romans tail

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps0wtcjjsv.jpg

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post #40 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 07:46 AM
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i like having a tail that was cropped to the standard. these aren't weimeraners...the tails shouldn't be that long.
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post #41 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
i like having a tail that was cropped to the standard. these aren't weimeraners...the tails shouldn't be that long.

Ok I'm sure we all like the standard crop but we don't have control over how it got cropped so I've learned to love it... Clearly we can see that neither of these dogs are Weimaraners


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post #42 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 03:14 PM
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actually...if you choose wisely, you do have some control. a reputable breeder will stick with the standard length.
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post #43 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 09:06 PM
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How long is "longer"? Didn't vote because I'm really not sure what "longer" means. Jack's tail is a little longer than normal (perhaps one vertebra?) but not as long as either Cigo's or Roman's. No way were we going to put him through a redock . . . and we've grown to love his slightly-too-long nub.
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post #44 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
actually...if you choose wisely, you do have some control. a reputable breeder will stick with the standard length.

Well I am happy with what I have, long tail and all, since I've joined this forum I have noticed u being snarky and condescending to people, and that's cool if that's what u do, but please don't say anything remotely rude about my dog... And I will show you the same respect, thanks



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post #45 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 10:05 PM
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snarky, yes. condescending...maybe. depends on my mood. mostly, though, i am here to learn - just like you - and hopefully help others with what i've learned.

my initial comment wasn't directed at you, but you took it personally and responded directly to me, so i responded with the most appropriate answer i have: reputable breeders won't dock tails that long. that's not insulting anyone's dog...that's a fact.


Quote:
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i like having a tail that was cropped to the standard. these aren't weimeraners...the tails shouldn't be that long.
and holy Hannah, did i seriously say "cropped" to standard? that's what i get for typing that response while having a conversation with someone about cropped ears.
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post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
snarky, yes. condescending...maybe. depends on my mood. mostly, though, i am here to learn - just like you - and hopefully help others with what i've learned.

my initial comment wasn't directed at you, but you took it personally and responded directly to me, so i responded with the most appropriate answer i have: reputable breeders won't dock tails that long. that's not insulting anyone's dog...that's a fact.




and holy Hannah, did i seriously say "cropped" to standard? that's what i get for typing that response while having a conversation with someone about cropped ears.

U said something about tails being docked like Weimaraners, directly after after I posted a pic of my pup and a member before me posted a pic of a pup with a very similar dock... So whom ever you were talking about, it was rude and not needed... I enjoy coming in the forum and learning about the breed ... But Jesus ...some of the people are so abrasive and or condescending , this is a forum for people who have Dobermans, that's the only requirement, stop always trying criticize where some obtained their dog from especially of u don't know the situation.


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post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 07:58 AM
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i didn't see your photo, but i have seen quite a few dobes with weim-length tails in my specific area.

it isn't about you at all. seriously.
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post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post

I understand the reason for leaving an extra vertebrae that could be taken off if the tail needs revision but that could easily leave a whole litter with significantly longer tails. My concern is: Will this practice change the standard? I think some vets are leaving whole litters with four vertebrae and these are the long weird-looking tails IMO. It is likely that this decision is made by the breeder and not the veterinarian, of course.
As long as we hold firm on the standard and do not allow it to be opened for any reason and win our fight against the AR groups the correct tail remains cropped at the 2nd joint. As Iceman said if it changes it means we lost and were forced to accept the tail as is.

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post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 12:42 PM
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This is the "oddly too long" dock.
When Smokie was 8-10 weeks, it wasn't near as obvious as it is now that she is 15 weeks.

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post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-07-2014, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs4ever View Post
As long as we hold firm on the standard and do not allow it to be opened for any reason and win our fight against the AR groups the correct tail remains cropped at the 2nd joint. As Iceman said if it changes it means we lost and were forced to accept the tail as is.
I worry about seeing quite a few nice show quality puppies with tails longer than 2 vertebrae. Thinking that breeders will just keep doing this until the paradigm shifts, whether or not the written standard ever does. This is exactly what happened with ear length. I think the longer ears compliment the head. However, I think the longer tails take away from the nobility of the Doberman "look of Eagles". They look comical to me -NO OFFENSE INTENDED toward any particular dog!!!

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