<Poll> Choke or Prong Collar During Training? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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View Poll Results: Do You Use Choke Or Prong Collar When Training?
Choke Collar 79 18.72%
Prong Collar 235 55.69%
NEITHER ONE!!! 64 15.17%
Harness or Standard Leather Collar 44 10.43%
Voters: 422. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-08-2008, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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<Poll> Choke or Prong Collar During Training?

advantages? I have heard a lot lately about misuse of BOTH. Which is your choice for your doberman?

Last edited by GreenBeretDoberman; 11-08-2008 at 10:52 PM. Reason: typo
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post #2 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-08-2008, 10:57 PM
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I use a Nylon martingale type collar for Casper - He is extremely reactive and the prong collar made him worse

I think each dog is different and you need to use what works for them. That said I'd never use a Choke Chain or a Prong on a puppy under 6-8 months

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post #3 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-08-2008, 11:01 PM
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I use a martingale or fabric slip collar. Mocha was trained on a choke but used properly. She mostly now wears a fashion collar but if we are out working or doing something work related it's a martingale and she at times will wear her choke as she associates it with working.
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post #4 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-08-2008, 11:17 PM
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For all training Martingale here. I feel it is the safest choice.
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post #5 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 12:24 AM
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Interesting, I JUST bought a Herm Sprenger Prong today. Up until now we've been using the Fur Saver, but he's just not responding to anything anymore. I don't plan on using the prong forever though. Once we're through the early obedience classes and my puppy isn't on some crazy mission to take over the world during our walks, we'll probably use the Fur Saver or a leather slip collar.

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post #6 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 01:00 AM
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Both have advantages and disadvantages. Alot depends on the dog/dogs personality and the trainers/owners knowledge.

I've seen so many people who have the choke chain on backwards around their dogs neck where it won't release after a corrective jerk and people yanking nonstop with a prong.

Myself I use a choke chain only when training.
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post #7 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 01:52 AM
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I tried completely positive training methods on Keira for the longest time, and just used a martingale for all of her training, but once she hit 8 months old it was incredibly apparent that I needed to do something different. She was mostly trained on a martingale, but she wears a prong quite often now for training as otherwise I don't get very far with her. I still alternate b/w her prong and martingale though, trying to phase the prong out so that I don't have to use it for the rest of her life. Some days she's great and doesn't need it, and other days she's not and does need her prong still.



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post #8 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 02:04 AM
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I think choke collar training, as it was designed, is kind of obsolete and can be unsafe. In some situations I do use something which is similar. I use a prong for most training sessions. Some situations we use an e-collar.
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post #9 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 07:42 AM
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I started using a prong with Sasha about 4 days ago and its working quite well but I have to admit I feel like sh** after I 'pop' her. But I'm using it for her good as well as mine.

Last edited by A.J; 11-09-2008 at 07:43 AM. Reason: d'oh left out a word
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post #10 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzter View Post
Both have advantages and disadvantages. Alot depends on the dog/dogs personality and the trainers/owners knowledge.

I've seen so many people who have the choke chain on backwards around their dogs neck where it won't release after a corrective jerk and people yanking nonstop with a prong.

Myself I use a choke chain only when training.
Ditto Blitzer. Key is to use any training aid correctly and responsibly.

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post #11 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 12:55 PM
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Is it really necessary to buy these collars to train your dobe?
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post #12 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 01:35 PM
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i start all my puppy training without any collar whatsoever - what collar they wear is really irrelevant.

that being said, my pup also wore a prong from a young age for fine tuning corrections and to get her used to it, and to teach her motivational pops. i do so under the tutelage of some very fine competitive obedience trainers - and she is being trained for some very advanced things.

in daily life, she wears a choke collar, typically a fursaver, or a flat collar - but these are just for walking or decoration. i train on them occassionally, and all the time at home.

i also have an electronic collar that she is trained to use as well, but mostly for recalls.

so in short, all my dogs use every collar available, for different purposes. my dogs aren't "weaned" off a prong collar, either - they wear them whenever necessary as adults, but i can take them off at any time too. changing collars is no big thing for my dogs, we do it constantly


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post #13 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 01:42 PM
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Prong for Q, nothing else seemed to work for him. Flat leather collar for Peaches and Maggie.

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post #14 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 03:45 PM
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Gentle leader ftw

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post #15 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 08:05 PM
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When we obedience train, I remove Red's flat leather collar and use a fine chain choke and a short leather leash. I don't use this leash or chain choke for anything else other than obedience training and trailing, and I never remove his flat collar for any reason other than bathing and applying his Frontline. This equipment change is a cue that its time to work, and Red gets down to business.

I don't use many corrections in my training though. The only time I really pop the collar is when I give a command that he clearly ignores. But even then, I don't pop it hard, just a small pop to get his attention. For this reason, I don't feel the need to use a prong for training, though I do use a prong in certain public situations for increased control.



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post #16 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 12:43 AM
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Gary Patterson has a great picture in his book. There's a picture of a cantalope and a choke chain cutting into the flesh of the cantalope. Not something I would want to happen to my babies!!!! I believe there was a study done in Germany (I'm sorry I do not have the exact quote or source) 100 dogs and the use of choke chains. 50% had some form of injury. Prongs and pinches allow you to deliver a better timed gentler correction. The actual prongs of a prong collar are rounded. They are not designed to injure dogs. Now they are not allowed in trial so I do put a choke chain on but do NOT correct my dogs with it. Harnesses like halti's and gentle leaders put a lot of unnecessary stress on the neck. Not good for dogs prone to wobblers and other spinal issues. Any collar can be used in an inappropriate manner. Hope this helps.
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post #17 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 12:50 AM
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I have never used anything but a choke collar for training, and have been using them for almost 50 years. I learned my techniques from my grandfather, who trained police, military, SAR and assistive dogs and their handlers in Germany as a youth (a hobby and a passion), and then taught obedience and field and tracking classes in New York for 25 years after he retired (still a hobby and passion - he never would take a dime for any of his work regarding dogs). Used correctly, started properly, and never, ever used in anger or retribution, choke chains are effective and safe. Our dogs love them, and come racing up when I jangle one, because they love to 'work'. It makes them proud and happy, and there is no fear or apprehension. Lois
(they must be large enough - a choke collar needs to be at least 2 - 3 inches longer than the circumference of the dog's neck - corrections shouldn't choke or hurt the dog - just make a jangley sound, and wake them up a bit. A proper chain weight and fit should ensure that not damage comes to fur, skin or anything else.)

Last edited by lolonurse; 11-10-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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post #18 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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I have never used anything but a choke collar for training, and have been using them for almost 50 years. I learned my techniques from my grandfather, who trained police, military, SAR and assistive dogs and their handlers in Germany as a youth (a hobby and a passion), and then taught obedience and field and tracking classes in New York for 25 years after he retired (still a hobby and passion - he never would take a dime for any of his work regarding dogs). Used correctly, started properly, and never, ever used in anger or retribution, choke chains are effective and safe. Our dogs love them, and come racing up when I jangle one, because they love to 'work'. It makes them proud and happy, and there is no fear or apprehension. Lois
(they must be large enough - a choke collar needs to be at least 2 - 3 inches longer than the circumference of the dog's neck - corrections shouldn't choke or hurt the dog - just make a jangley sound, and wake them up a bit. A proper chain weight and fit should ensure that not damage comes to fur, skin or anything else.)
Yeah, I used chokes for 20 years also, but a properly used prong collar is safer (according to research) and more effective.
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post #19 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankp View Post
Is it really necessary to buy these collars to train your dobe?
It depends on what your idea of a trained dog is. I cannot imagine trying to train any Doberman that I have ever owned without one. This is even more true in the case of my current dog as she is hard, high drive and stubborn. It is not necessary if you just want a dog that will not mind and walk all over you. I think if a person cannot stomach the idea of using a correction then having a Doberman is probably not the breed for them.

Last edited by Rosamburg; 11-10-2008 at 12:05 PM.
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post #20 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 01:04 PM
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i started out using 'choke chains' on all my dogs,and found them less effective/more hazardous to the dog,now i use a prong collar,due to my dobe and shepherd being a little high strung. my german shepherd could not 'feel' the choke correction due to her dense fur and put us into some unsavory situations not being able to correct her behaviour.the dobe needs less of a correction intensity with a prong,so his neck isnt as sore.then i noticed improved response with prong corrections and reduced amount of corrections as well,his neck was less sore with a prong than a 'choke chain'. i wont go back to a choke chain.I'm sold on prong collars. lol
i voted prong/pinch collar.

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post #21 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 01:42 PM
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I've seen a whole lot of folks on DT, on various threads, extol the prong collar, and although I have never used one and they make me squeamish just looking at them, I think some of the most respected and knowledgeable people in Dobermans are here, and I would trust their input. I don't know if I will ever have the guts to try one, as they just look so much like articles of torture to me, and I feel so comfortable with chain collars (but I start training so young, and don't use the choke harshly or ever leave it on my dogs)... I guess I am just a coward! Plus I am afraid of people looking at me as if I am being mean or can't control my dog. OK - I'm ready... smack me! : ) Lois
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post #22 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolonurse View Post
I've seen a whole lot of folks on DT, on various threads, extol the prong collar, and although I have never used one and they make me squeamish just looking at them, I think some of the most respected and knowledgeable people in Dobermans are here, and I would trust their input. I don't know if I will ever have the guts to try one, as they just look so much like articles of torture to me, and I feel so comfortable with chain collars (but I start training so young, and don't use the choke harshly or ever leave it on my dogs)... I guess I am just a coward! Plus I am afraid of people looking at me as if I am being mean or can't control my dog. OK - I'm ready... smack me! : ) Lois
Try one on yourself first.
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post #23 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:07 AM
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i use both prong and choker. but not by choice. Where i live prong collars are illegal. once i went to a prong collar i never wanted to go back. my mother has a jack russel agressive 50kg mastiff, and if she wanted to go after it there was no way of stopping her.(she broke 3 heavy duty chokers) since getting the prong we dont even need to give her a correction, her pulling slightly is enough(she's a very soft dog).
if they become legal here, the only need we'll have for a choker is a back up incase the prong comes undone.

people(no offence, i know they look bad) should stop judging the prong on what it looks like, and start judgeing it on what it does. if it wasn't for the prong our mastiff could have mauled another dog and we could have done nothing about it. now with the prong we are able to control and modify her unwanted behaviour, because we can handle her around small dogs, meaning she is able to get out and socialise with them.

the best thing to do if your not sure is try one on your thigh. but you have to remember that if you'd give a level 8 correction with a choker that you'd only give a level 2 or 3 with a prong.

i also feel that chokers can be, well chokers, that's exactly what they were designed to do. which is why here in Aus they have changed the name to "correction chain" but they will always remain chokers. not to say that i dont use them, but they are much better on softer dogs. not hard, big dogs like dobes, rotts, GSDs, mastiffs ect.
each dog is different.

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post #24 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lolonurse View Post
Our dogs love them, and come racing up when I jangle one, because they love to 'work'. It makes them proud and happy, and there is no fear or apprehension.
I graduate from the collar around the neck to one in a pocket that I jangle when starting off lead work. It's a great tool!

I still have them scattered around the house for those "Doberman Brain Fart" moments that do occur -- and I jangle it and I then have 100% of their attention.

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post #25 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 09:38 AM
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Tess and I went to a drop-in advanced obedience class last night and I left the prong on her because it was a crowded room with lots and lots of new dogs. Besides worrying that if on a choke she'd crush her trachea trying to "visit" with the other new dogs, I felt like I was able to get her attention quicker with the prong. Others with Dobes also had their dogs on prongs, so I wasn't alone.

The only drawback to the prong was when we worked recalls. Because there were so many new dogs, the instructor had us work our dogs on flexi leads, rather than off-leash. For Tess, flexi + prong = confusion. She was getting mixed signals because the flexi would pull on the prong just enough that she'd start to come to me. I had to go and reset her, just to have it happen again. This happened a few times. By then end of the exercise, she was pretty stressed out.


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