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post #76 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby View Post
I'd say he's a low 3/high 2, I really like the weight you have him at- he looks good. I'm not sure about the second one- it seems like I can see a lot (5?) of his ribs there but he looks so good in the others that I think it's just the picture Thanks for sharing
You are right, I can see most of his ribs when he's standing and definitely when he's moving. He could probably stand to gain a few pounds and still be at a 3. I'm just happy right now that I can tell he HAS gained weight in the past couple of months! He has always been a finicky eater and when he gets a ton of exercise he doesn't seem to put on muscle.. he just loses weight. I think maybe I should try feeding him 3 times a day instead of twice, he will rarely eat more than a cup and a half in a single meal, and 3 cups a day isn't enough for him (he's 28.5" tall). It's frustrating!


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post #77 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DreamValley View Post
IF a vet doesn't care about your dog weight then find another vet

Here is my way to determine if a dog is in the healthy weight range:

1. When I view my dog's shape from above, a dog should have an almost hour glass figure. An overweight dog won't have this hourglass definition.

2. I should not be able to see a dog's ribs but I should be able to feel them. If there is too much fat on a dog then you won't be able to feel the dog's ribs at all.

3. Belly should be tucked up.

4. The body should be well muscled.

You may not agree... but that's what my vet look for.
My parents mix meets every last one of these without a doubt, but definitely is also heavier than he should be. You're right, I don't agree.

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post #78 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:13 PM
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My vet is hesitant to mention a fat dog, unfortunately. When Daisy the chihuahua had her yearly exam, she mentioned her body score with a scowl but didn't actually say hey, dingbat, put your fat dog on a diet. I had to prod further asking her what she really thought. So Daisy has been on a diet (no pig ears is the big thing) and has lost weight. However, my SO thinks I starve her and feeds her way too much when he does the feeding. That's been such a battle.

At Nova's last exam (she was still a pup) I asked the vet about her weight and she said that now wasn't the time to worry about it and just to feed her good food. Really anxious for her next exam to see what the vet thinks. She's 25"-26" and I'm going to guess 70-75lb. The only way I can weigh her right now is to pick her up and stand on the scale LOL.

These are the only recent pics that are half decent. I'll try to take more tomorrow. She kind of has a flap which seems to cover her tuck some.

My feelings won't be hurt if anyone feels she is overweight.





This is a bit older but shows definition IMO

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post #79 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:20 PM
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Alright so I think Jones would be about a 3 or a low 3 but I want to see what everyone thinks... The only reason I would think higher is his excess skin when he sits... Is it excess skin or is it a roll what would you all think He's a little under 70lbs last time I weighed him 26.5"
Sitting

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post #80 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Jonesy looks like he's in good shape from the pictures, but I don't really know of another reason for that extra flesh when he's sitting, that's something I just don't think we can say from pictures. You might want to ask someone who could put their hands on him and evaulate him in person.

also.... I did notice that he's wearing a different collar in each photo, I think you may have a collar buying problem

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post #81 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 11:14 PM
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also.... I did notice that he's wearing a different collar in each photo, I think you may have a collar buying problem
LEAVE MY ADDICTIONS ALONE!!!!!

Honestly I don't think it is fat, but I can't explain the odd roll... Maybe he needs some On the Ball Workouts to tighten his core up lol

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post #82 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 11:23 PM
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Jonesy looks terrific. Don't even think to change his diet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby View Post
My parents mix meets every last one of these without a doubt, but definitely is also heavier than he should be. You're right, I don't agree.
I am not an admire of skinny dogs you are trying to promote here.

Doberman should be a strong well muscled dog.

We will accomplish nothing except that we agree to disagree.


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post #83 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamValley View Post
Jonesy looks terrific. Don't even think to change his diet



I am not an admire of skinny dogs you are trying to promote here.

Doberman should be a strong well muscled dog.

We will accomplish nothing except that we agree to disagree.
Muscled, not fat.

I do not see Abby trying to promote "skinny dogs," and it is mean of you to accuse her of that.

She started the thread to encourage everyone how to develop an eye for their dogs' ideal fitness level. Such a shame if human egos deter others from learning how to increase their dog's healthy, happy years here on this earth.

I find it interesting that you only think "internet opinions" are valid, if they coincide exactly with your own.




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post #84 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:42 AM
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Nietzsche doesn't have a lot of tuck (and never has) or the best conformation, so he starts to look overweight very easily. I try to keep him right around 75lbs as he is a bit on the smaller side. Liberty has serious substance for a bitch that isn't even 18mo yet. Her handler didn't even want me to enter her in the 12-18mo class because of it. I could NOT put weight on her when she was little, but she looks pretty good now. She's on a very meager diet of 1/2c of food twice a day right now because she is going through a false pregnancy, and she is NOT liking it.

I think they're both 3's, but Nietzsche falls into the 2 territory rather easily now that he is on thyroid meds.





Liberty is down 2-3lbs from this photo, and she has almost completely lost that strap of fat on her lower back.

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post #85 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:29 AM
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I think Nova, Jonesy, Nietzsche, and Liberty all look great!

I noticed this morning that Elke seems to be creeping up again - she's more sensitive to small changes in her diet (and extra cookies!) now so I'm going to need to keep an eye. With her seizure meds, it makes her more hungry and thirsty too but she has a sensitive stomach and gets diarrhea when she eats too much. I just have to measure carefully and make sure she gets plenty of exercise!

Loving the photos of all these gorgeous dogs.
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post #86 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:59 PM
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[QUOTE=Abby;973148]Jonesy looks like he's in good shape from the pictures, but I don't really know of another reason for that extra flesh when he's sitting, that's something I just don't think we can say from pictures. You might want to ask someone who could put their hands on him and evaulate him in person.

[QUOTE]

I agree also and want to add to the thread in general not just to you, that it also depends on what we may or may not do with our dogs. I do a lot of agility and I do tend to keep my dogs a bit on the leaner side than others might. Muscular, but lean. And not just my Dobe but my Vizslas also.

I think we are also a great group of people who really do pay attention to health, diet, exercise, etc. vs the "average general public." I almost too pics of the GSP and Golden mix we ran into the other day at the park It was so sad. On one hand, kudos to the owners for getting them out and about. But both were ROUND and horribly overweight.

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post #87 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
That's interesting. I always thought it meant no wrinkles, not a layer of fat. But a nice solid dog that flows from heat to toe without any "bumps" or things that catch your eye (like a not so great front or topline). I had no idea it meant a layer of fat.
The only ones I have ever seen that "look poured into their skin" are fat because (yes no wrinkles at the neck), but no bumps anywhere and definitely no last 2 ribs showing or a definite waist, more of a bit of a curve.

This goes along with Dobebug's constant comments that she takes at least 5lb off her dogs starting the minute they finish with the show ring.


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post #88 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 05:10 PM
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I felt like I needed proof... these were taken today. What do you think?


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IMG_7045 by hansiemoto, on Flickr

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post #89 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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lelise, it seems like your boy is at a pretty good weight, but it is hard to tell because the side picture is in such strong shadow there isn't much detail. He doesn't look heavy, but I don't know how accurate my opinion is with that picture being so dark

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post #90 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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What do you think?
Your boy looks good from the top-view picture. Like Abby said, it's hard to tell from the second pic because of the shadow. Those pesky black dogs lol . I'm willing to say he looks alright, he's probably a 3 on the chart Abby posted. He does look like he kind of has a pudge belly in the second pic, but Riley has that too. Is he a puppy or a fully grown adult? Riley never had the pudge as a young dog, but got it as an adult, and I don't think it's gonna go away.

If he is still a pup tho, he might fill out a little more which will take care of that baby fat (with a little work from you of course!). Either way, I wouldn't worry about it too much.


Also, to add to the thread, I found some pictures that are a good example of how some pics can be deceiving.

In this pic, it's hard to tell what body condition the dog has. He could be in perfect condition, or he could just be bunched up from playing and you are seeing a tuck and some ribs due to that position. That and I personally find it hard to really see definition in black coats sometimes. This pic was taken when Riley was 3 years old.

This one was taken the exact same day. Definitely not hard to see the definition there ..
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post #91 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 04:11 PM
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I'm also happy you started this thread, Abby! Funny story - we were in our small dog supply store buying food with Si in there, and a guy came in and asked me if I meant to keep him so skinny. The owner of the store ringing me up immediately went off on the guy (in a humorous way) telling him that Silas was a perfect weight and that his lab (who wasn't there that day) was FAT. Made me laugh. Also nice that I didn't have to defend his weight.

I find it SO much easier with these short coated dogs to keep their weight fine-tuned. With the GSD and husky mix coats before it was easier to miss when they were carrying a few extra pounds, so when you caught it you often had to take off more (or add more).

I prefer to keep mine between 2 and 3 if possible. I like to see the last rib or two in the sun. Right now I think Scout is pretty ideal. I think Silas is a 3, I think he could lose a couple pounds as I can see a bit of a bulge near his lower back. It's funny because just last night P and I were discussing it and I asked that we level off his cup of food instead of a slight rounded cup, which we had upped him to maybe 4 months ago, because he was getting just a little bit ribby - could see maybe 3-4 ribs in the sun. Just leveling off the cup will probably take that little mini-roll off fairly quickly. If you catch it quickly (either way) it's so much easier to adjust.

I just ran out right now to take some photos. Please tell me if you disagree or if you have any comments. I am still waiting for his butt to bulk up some - it has a little in the past 6 months but I'd like his rear to gain some more muscle. He has always been a slow grower/maturer.

The angles are a bit funny because they were chewing on sticks, but you get the idea.

In this one you can see the bit of fat I'm talking about wanting to get rid of - right in front of/above the front of his thigh area.


And in this one, too.


Harder to see here as he started walking a bit, but you can still see what I mean, and I'd like to see a bit more of his last rib(s).


From the top, bribed with cottage cheese. He is bent over the bowl, normally you can't see the vertebrae sticking out.


Here is Scout. With the iphone her fur gets blown out but you get the idea.



Erica



Last edited by bean; 10-08-2011 at 04:17 PM.
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post #92 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 04:14 PM
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Si reminds me a lot of Shanoa. Definitely fit, definitely not fat, but could maybe lose 2 pounds to see a little more rib. I agree with your assessment.


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post #93 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousMoves View Post
Also, to add to the thread, I found some pictures that are a good example of how some pics can be deceiving.
Yes, or here's the opposite way - bright sun, he is all stretched out and looks too skinny but it's just the photo. (this was this past May.)






I'd like to know more about those exercises Karen was talking about. Also Adara was talking about some ball work or something in another thread...?

Erica


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post #94 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:00 PM
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Here are some very recent photos of Spock, I estimate him to be at the "3" level. He was 80 lbs. during out last vet visit, which he held since 1 year old. I think he's currently on another growth spurt, because his appetite has increased over the past several months. He eats Pro Plan dry kibble with occasional Sardines or Brisket added. I will get some overhead shots next time I'm using the camera.



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post #95 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:03 PM
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Yes, or here's the opposite way - bright sun, he is all stretched out and looks too skinny but it's just the photo. (this was this past May.)






I'd like to know more about those exercises Karen was talking about. Also Adara was talking about some ball work or something in another thread...?
Here is what a friend of mine has been up to with her rehab of her big BC (includes very interesting video):

http://brisbeethewhite.livejournal.com/878233.html


You should join NW Dog Activities. Bobbie Lyons runs "on the ball" classes and dog conditioning in Newburg, and Sherwood I think. See this message would have popped up in your inbox:

K9 Strengthening, Stretching and improving well being! Newberg 10/22/2011

K9 Conditioning Workshop--Strengthening, Stretching and improving well being!!

When: October 22, 2011, 10am - 12:30
Where: Newberg Canine Rehab Center
Cost: $50/working (with your dog) space is limited to 8 participants 3 SPOTS
AVAILABLE. PLEASE CONTACT ME FOR REGISTRATION AND FLIER.

K9 conditioning and strengthening is a new field of interest for the many dog
enthusiasts. Many are wondering how to keep their dogs in good shape throughout
their life, decrease the chance of injury and strengthen muscles that dogs do
not strengthen on their own.

This workshop will give you the tools needed to help your dog be more balanced
on all four feet, strengthen core and trunk muscles, strengthen forearms and
hind legs and increase mental stimulation to have a happier, stronger pet.

We will use aerobic benches, balance discs, air mattress, and other props to
help your dog discover how to use their muscles in different ways. These
exercises help keep your dogs coordination, balance and improve their footing
(gait).

All dogs should be stretched 3 times a week to prevent injury and encourage
muscle strength and growth. This workshop will teach you how to safely stretch
your dog. Once you and your dog have practiced stretching, it will be a great
relaxing and bonding experience.

If you are competing in dog sports, or have a Frisbee or ball chaser this
workshop will greatly benefit your dog. If you have a dog that has had a
previous injury, this workshop will be invaluable to your dogs ability to regain
muscle, strength and balance.

If you have any questions or would like the event flier and registration, please
email me.

Bobbie Lyons
Pawsitive Performance
503-329-1235
Pawsitive Performance, dog training, on the ball, Beaverton Oregon


the boys (rip): Cato, Emerald's Black Onyx, Emerald's Black Quartz
Owned by the girls: Jill (kelpie) and Lana.

Last edited by vivienne00; 10-08-2011 at 05:09 PM.
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post #96 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 08:19 PM
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That sounds SO cool vivienne! Wish we had a workshop like that here...
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post #97 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 08:22 PM
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Vivienne -
How do you get on the list? Is it a yahoo group or something? I'm totally down. I'd love to take that class, but we're doing a Read to Dogs visit that day at 10, and it's already a reschedule from last weekend. Very cool though - I'd be interested. Can you email or PM me a link to the group?

Are you going?

Erica


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post #98 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 10:27 PM
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Viv, way cool--many of those rehab exercises and stretches are identical to what Whip and I are doing.

Bean, just use cavaletti--you can build them cheap and easy, from PVC.

Whip isn't strong enough for the balance discs yet, but maybe in a couple weeks--we already have one, ready for her to go to work on

I have workshop envy bigtime, too. Sigh.




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post #99 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
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Vivienne -
How do you get on the list? Is it a yahoo group or something? I'm totally down. I'd love to take that class, but we're doing a Read to Dogs visit that day at 10, and it's already a reschedule from last weekend. Very cool though - I'd be interested. Can you email or PM me a link to the group?

Are you going?
I sent you an email but it is the Yahoo Group NWDogActivities. You can call Bobbie directly at the number I included. I don't plan to go since it conflicts with a Herding Clinic for Jill that day but if the clinic cancels, I may try to get in if there is still room. Or else I will be off looking for a herding lesson for a 7 mth puppy. hahahaha.

The person rehabbing the BC is one of my agility instructors. She is the one who takes a lot of photos of Jill - I have linked to her Flickr account on here before - she took those photos of Winston the young black stallion at the Keuring we have here in Sherwood each year (?).

Tip of the day: teach your dog to walk sideways uphill. Start with the "grapevine" by walking into the side of your dog and have them walk sideways away from you, then direct it uphill for greater strengthening. Always take this stuff slowly and build up over time.


the boys (rip): Cato, Emerald's Black Onyx, Emerald's Black Quartz
Owned by the girls: Jill (kelpie) and Lana.
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post #100 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 01:30 AM
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Very picky about my pups weight. I dont understand how people let their dogs get fat. And I am really amazed at the amount of dogs I see that are very over weight everyday.
I like as skinny as they can be without seeing the ribs with good muscle definition




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