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post #51 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-03-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I wish I could go give your vet a big pat on the back, for being a stickler.

I HATE how so many vets are afraid to offend clients, and won't really address the issue about the overweight patients they see daily.
Our vet is not afraid to tell us Niz is fat (and he will sternly tell us to put Niz on a diet) if he thinks so--Niz's high point was a 3, and he was still fairly thin. You could see his ribs when he moved, but you could feel a thin layer of fat starting to form over them. That was too fat in my vet's opinion, and he'd rather see dogs on the leaner side.

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what can you do.... love them and bake them cookies.
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post #52 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-03-2011, 11:44 PM
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Wow momma! That is a tuck...Can you come walk with me at the park? LOL Thank you for the example, I feel much better about Gemma's tuck (lack of next to Vegas!) and will continue ignoring all the jacks at the park. I love that picture of her in the water
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post #53 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:34 AM
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This is what Gabriel looked like when I first got him



This is what he looked like when my vet couldnt figure out why he was losing all this weight, I was feeding him A LOT hoping he would gain weigh and finally I had to re-home him due to running out of money and only working part time and going to school I couldn't afford more tests. But a miracle happened and 6 months later our lost connections of the person I re-homed him to I was able to get a hold of her and she gave him back to me due to her moving into an apartment. She did tests and tests and the very last thing her vet tried was a b-12 shot and it worked he started gaining his weigh back o_0



after everything was said and done this was what I was able to get him to


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post #54 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:16 AM
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Delta's weight bounced around quite a bit for the past couple months as I got used to the amounts to feed her on raw and our schedule settled in with Kaz here. One thing I noticed was, on her, the bony top of her spine shows up before her waist gets really any more defined. (Wish I'd gotten pictures as it's hard to describe.)

And also that it only takes a couple of lazy rainy days off our exercise schedule for her to pack on some weight.


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post #55 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 12:06 PM
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Just curious- Are my dogs the only ones on the thread that are fat? I didn't know if maybe RFR was just more comfortable telling me, or mine were the only ones. There are a few that look a little thick to me...

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post #56 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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There are a few dogs in this thread that are above their ideal, we just know and love you Megan

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post #57 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 01:44 PM
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i think opie is on the skinny side. i'm feeding him three times a day to fatten him up, but he just burns it off with all the running about he does.



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post #58 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 02:16 PM
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Weight can be really tough to maintain, at least in my house. Since arriving in May, Simon's lost a little bit and I think he's looking pretty good. If I take off any more weight he starts showing all his ribs, so he's pretty much where he needs to be, though I'd probably say he's at a 3 on the chart.

Shanoa is still getting her thyroid meds stabilized. At our spring vet visit she was slightly underweight and my vet wanted me to put 2 to 3 pounds back on. Now, I think she's carrying 2 or 3 too many. She's still a 3 on the chart, I think - you can see her ribs while she's moving, her tuck up is good, and she's pretty muscular. But standing still I would like to see a bit more rib on her and a little more waist. I'd like her more towards the 2 side of the chart than she is now.

I have okay pictures of Simon, not so much of Shanoa.

This is the two of them in May:



This isn't a great picture, but you can see his last two ribs in this picture:

[IMG][/IMG]

And here is him in motion this past Saturday:



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post #59 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 03:34 PM
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I took a couple of bad pictures of Ziggy yesterday just to compare them to the last set I took.. pleased to say he's gained a little weight and looks about right now. What do y'all think? I'd say he's about a 3.. he's gone though some REALLY skinny stages in the past.









Ziggy - born 6/6/09
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post #60 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 03:35 PM
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I know the photos weren't that great, but did anyone have any comments about Zeus? He does have bilateral hip dysplasia, and while we are extremely fortunate to have avoided any issues so far, I obviously want to make sure that he is at the proper weight for his frame. In my opinon, he still needs to loose a pound or two of flab, and should put on more muscle, particularly in his front end. My concern is when we have cut his food further from where we are at now, all of his ribs and spinal processes become very prominent. This seems too thin to me. Right now you can easily see his last two ribs at rest, and can see all of them when he is moving/panting.

That being said, I would love to know what other people think. I don't take these things personally. Another set of eyes is always helpful.
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post #61 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:09 PM
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I try to keep Elke at about a 2+. It's funny this thread came up because just last week, I felt like she had put on an extra pound or two and cut her food a little and now she's about where she should be. I am amazed at the people who tell me my dog is too thin when they have an obese dog and think it's okay. I just ignore the comments. My vet is good at letting me know if her weight is too high or low - we agree on what she should look like. Since she's still putting on muscle and growing it's a moving target. Right now I think she's about 72ish but I'm not positive. She's a tall girl though (28") so that's lean.

Trying to find a good pic that shows her but haven't taken many lately and she's usually a blur, running around with all that healthy energy!
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post #62 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:38 PM
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Thanks for sharing, you have a beautiful pair, but I had to respond- I hope you don't actually think there's an age that a dog can't be fat, or that you're implying it's allowable for a puppy to be chubby. I don't know where it was posted, but I liked that someone said young dogs may LOOK "heavier" because they have so much skin (among other reasons as well) but it's as important to keep puppies at an appropriate weight as it is our older dogs. Maybe I misunderstood
Puppies are growing and it's very unusual for them to be fat. They need more food to build their bodies.
A starving puppy may develop many health issues.

Definitely I prefer the body condition between 2 and 3 and that's where my dogs are.

Here are my "fat" dogs... LOL.
They have a bit different body structure than NA Dobermans do and their bones are heavier.





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post #63 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeusy Boy's Mama View Post
I know the photos weren't that great, but did anyone have any comments about Zeus? He does have bilateral hip dysplasia, and while we are extremely fortunate to have avoided any issues so far, I obviously want to make sure that he is at the proper weight for his frame. In my opinon, he still needs to loose a pound or two of flab, and should put on more muscle, particularly in his front end. My concern is when we have cut his food further from where we are at now, all of his ribs and spinal processes become very prominent. This seems too thin to me. Right now you can easily see his last two ribs at rest, and can see all of them when he is moving/panting.

That being said, I would love to know what other people think. I don't take these things personally. Another set of eyes is always helpful.
From your pictures, I'd say he could lose a few pounds, but like you say, it's hard to tell from pictures. Is your vet good about talking about weight? Has he been in recently?


DSC_0133
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post #64 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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I get so sick of people who think they know what correct weight looks like, and will TELLL YOU when their severely overweight dog is panting at their side. Working with Azawakhs, it gets REALLY tiresome. I'll include a picture of an Azawakh in outstanding condition to add one more idea to this thread, and so you know what I mean! A friend of mine has a boy that I would steal from time to time (I was his favorite, so we went and had adventures together) I won't include a picture of him because his brindle coat makes it really difficult to see what lovely condition he's in. But people would stop me to tell me how awful he looked- and that I should probably be feeding him Science Diet :confused2 but what I loved about him is that if it got bad enough- and it was often necessary- I could respond, "Oh, maybe you didn't know, this is UKC/Int'l CH BIS Grand Sieger [his registered name that I can't spell] so when you have that many titles, and you're the #1 Azawakh in the country, you know you look good." And that's where I would smirk, and walk away. It was bad of me, but it was fun

Aaaand here's an example of an Azawakh (she is from Italy) in exquisite condition.

Quote:

image from... Tigidit H
I wanted to point out an example of a dog like this, because it would be SO easy to say that such a dog is underweight. What a lot of people don't realize though, is that when an animal is underfed the first thing to go is nearly always muscle mass, muscle needs to be "fed" just like fat does. So a dog wouldn't have such great muscle tone if it were lacking nutrition.

I don't want to pretend to be an expert in this area, but this is just one lesson that I've learned working with Azawakhs, and I wanted to share.

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post #65 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:47 PM
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From your pictures, I'd say he could lose a few pounds, but like you say, it's hard to tell from pictures. Is your vet good about talking about weight? Has he been in recently?
Thanks! Zeus is scheduled for a recheck in a few weeks. We have been primarily working on sorting out his allergies, so have not had a specific conversation regarding this weight, but she knows about his hips and my concern about them. I will, however, definitely bring it up when we go back.

On the scale we are all using, where would you rate him?
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post #66 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennie ATX View Post
I took a couple of bad pictures of Ziggy yesterday just to compare them to the last set I took.. pleased to say he's gained a little weight and looks about right now. What do y'all think? I'd say he's about a 3.. he's gone though some REALLY skinny stages in the past.







I'd say he's a low 3/high 2, I really like the weight you have him at- he looks good. I'm not sure about the second one- it seems like I can see a lot (5?) of his ribs there but he looks so good in the others that I think it's just the picture Thanks for sharing


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post #67 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeusy Boy's Mama View Post
Thanks! Zeus is scheduled for a recheck in a few weeks. We have been primarily working on sorting out his allergies, so have not had a specific conversation regarding this weight, but she knows about his hips and my concern about them. I will, however, definitely bring it up when we go back.

On the scale we are all using, where would you rate him?
It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures. The picture that shows him "top down" doesn't show much of a waist, so from that picture I'd say definitely a high three/possibly a four. Again, not having seen him in person and felt his ribs it can be difficult to say. It looks like he has a larger frame, too, so that may impact how he holds his weight.

What do some of the others think on Zeus?


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post #68 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 06:03 PM
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Be careful to give an advice to people based on online pictures. They may be misleading.
A vet is the only person I would trust.


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his owner can express with his tongue in hours"


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post #69 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamValley View Post
Be careful to give an advice to people based on online pictures. They may be misleading.
A vet is the only person I would trust.
Unfortunately, a lot of vets do not do a good job of communicating to their clients about a dog's weight. Some are great, but a lot seem to ignore it until it's really out of hand.


DSC_0133
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post #70 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 06:15 PM
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You know, it's not just vets. I'm actually considered morbidly obese according to my BMI. I've seen 3 different doctors for different things this year and none of them mentioned anything about my weight. Not even at my annual physical.

And yes, I am getting off my butt to do something about it so hopefully this time next year I could actually show pictures of myself lol.
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post #71 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 08:01 PM
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I got wayy carried away with Hans' diet, thinking that his hefty weight was normal for a dobe. Boy did my vet give me a wake up call! I thought that as active as he was, and how he never seemed to lose energy, he was in good shape. WRONG. Well, after the advice from my vet, and the diet my trainers told me to put him on, I realized how fat he really was! I haven't weighed him in a year, so I'm not sure on his exact weight but he now has a tuck, and I can see and feel ribs. He is much more dog now, but he is doing excellent obedience work, tracking is awesome and man can he run fast!!

It kinda makes you wonder...if the majority of dobe owners kept their dogs at their true ideal weight, how many would still be called "couch potatoes"...

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post #72 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lelise View Post
I got wayy carried away with Hans' diet, thinking that his hefty weight was normal for a dobe. Boy did my vet give me a wake up call! I thought that as active as he was, and how he never seemed to lose energy, he was in good shape. WRONG. Well, after the advice from my vet, and the diet my trainers told me to put him on, I realized how fat he really was! I haven't weighed him in a year, so I'm not sure on his exact weight but he now has a tuck, and I can see and feel ribs. He is much more dog now, but he is doing excellent obedience work, tracking is awesome and man can he run fast!!

It kinda makes you wonder...if the majority of dobe owners kept their dogs at their true ideal weight, how many would still be called "couch potatoes"...
Good for you!

Yeah, I've seen in person a few Dobermans' activity level/drive expression go waaaay up as the weight comes off and the muscle mass builds.

I've also absolutely seen fat puppies, and it is possible to overfeed them and cause issues, just as it can happen with young horses.

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Originally Posted by tattoogirl73 View Post
i think opie is on the skinny side. i'm feeding him three times a day to fatten him up, but he just burns it off with all the running about he does.



Nope, he looks freaking awesome, shiny coat and fabulously fit, with great muscle mass.

Good job, you--don't let any folks with unfit dogs make comments--or at least don't let comments get to you--your dog is the one racing around loving life

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Just curious- Are my dogs the only ones on the thread that are fat? I didn't know if maybe RFR was just more comfortable telling me, or mine were the only ones. There are a few that look a little thick to me...
Let's just say my assumption was that you are a good egg, who would react to a kindly worded observation in a very rational way--which you did

I'm glad Meadowcat posted pics of her two--brings up another good point and side-conversation--there is overweight, which neither of her dogs are, and there is unfit, or lacking in muscle mass--which Shanoa is not, but Simon is, to a certain extent.

Now, he has very good reasons for that--rescue who has not been with her his whole life, extended enforced rest due to the heartworm disease--and his age.

So, go back and look at Simon--he's not overweight, IMO, but he could build more lean muscle, tone his body, particularly his tummy muscles (cavaletti work or natural cavaletti, aka log hopping would help if vet says his joints are okay for that, Nicole).

Some of the agility warm up stuff and stretches might help strengthen his topline, too.

Overall, don't get me wrong, he looks superduper for his age, but just sayin' he'd be a living work of old-gentleman-art if you took him to the next level, in muscle tone




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post #73 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:28 PM
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Unfortunately, a lot of vets do not do a good job of communicating to their clients about a dog's weight. Some are great, but a lot seem to ignore it until it's really out of hand.
IF a vet doesn't care about your dog weight then find another vet

Here is my way to determine if a dog is in the healthy weight range:

1. When I view my dog's shape from above, a dog should have an almost hour glass figure. An overweight dog won't have this hourglass definition.

2. I should not be able to see a dog's ribs but I should be able to feel them. If there is too much fat on a dog then you won't be able to feel the dog's ribs at all.

3. Belly should be tucked up.

4. The body should be well muscled.

You may not agree... but that's what my vet look for.


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post #74 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:48 PM
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...2. I should not be able to see a dog's ribs but I should be able to feel them. If there is too much fat on a dog then you won't be able to feel the dog's ribs at all...
Just commenting on this one remark--this is not true.

A dog's ribs should be *easily felt.*

A dog absolutely CAN be carrying too much weight and still have ribs that can be felt--it just should not be a search and rescue mission, to find them, LOL.




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post #75 of 127 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
So, go back and look at Simon--he's not overweight, IMO, but he could build more lean muscle, tone his body, particularly his tummy muscles (cavaletti work or natural cavaletti, aka log hopping would help if vet says his joints are okay for that, Nicole).

Some of the agility warm up stuff and stretches might help strengthen his topline, too.

Overall, don't get me wrong, he looks superduper for his age, but just sayin' he'd be a living work of old-gentleman-art if you took him to the next level, in muscle tone
I absolutely appreciate the input, Karen. I'm already noticing improvement in his muscle tone as we've increased activity. We're doing lots of gentle hills in our walks and that seems to be helping. I'll be seeing my vet Friday (with a cat) and am planning to talk with her a bit about what's appropriate for Simon.

He's looking so much better, but he could really improve still.


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