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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Bloat ?'s

I had a not so great experience with Atlantis lastnight. I'm not gonna say it was bloat. She swelled up, was pacing, whining, drooling, burping and her stomach sounded and felt like a rollercoaster. Called the vet and we went from there. Anyhow she's fine now, back to her normal self.
All of this has got me to think all day and all night (b/c I couldn't sleep watching her breathe in and out).. When you think a dog may be bloating? May have indigestion what do you give? Or what should you do or not do(beside go to the vet)?

Personally cows bloat alot, a whole lot when they travel for shows and stress. So we pour mineral oil down them, gallons of it, and sometimes have to literally poke a hole in their sides. But my dogs aren't cattle.
My regular vet suggested giving mineral oil immediately, as it breaks down the gases in the stomach. Even giving pepto, which I wouldn't do b/c I just won't give pepto. So then he did suggest gas-x, tums or mylanta. Also tubing them to get the gas to release from their stomach (not something I was crazy about either, but would do if need be). We also used hydrogen peroxide to get her to puke, b/c she was gagging alot and I started to think it could possibly be a blockage.
So in theory, what should we have on hand for situations like this? And how much should a dog get?
This is something I think everyone should know and be prepared for, just in case


One more question ... we run agility daily, after a couple runs she goes and drinks all the water I'll allow. And of course is getting loads of treats along the way for her reward. The fast movement, jumping, food and water, could this be a concern or a cause for a dog to bloat?

I'm just a worried Dog Mama


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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:17 PM
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I haven't dealt with bloat but I know my vet told me to not let them drink or eat after alot of exercise. so in the summer when he's running alot, he has to wait and settle down before I'll allow him to get a drink.

thank goodness she's ok.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:18 PM
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GasX is handy. Louie's vet has given us two pills to give him when he has really bad gas, it's Fatomide, and something else, I'm out of the other pills and don't have the bottle, I need to go get some more.

Now that Louie has had two scares, he is kept calm atleast an hour after eating. In training I really try using toys more than food.

During our scares, Louie paced and whined. He would run outside and eat grass, he would be eating the grass and so focused on that he didn't even hear my recall which isn't like him. Then he'd come inside pace some more whine some more. He would gulp every few seconds like trying to swallow something (the vets said this is a symptom of nausessness). Then right before we ran to the evet he started drooling, mounds of drool down to the ground. Doing all this, when he did lay down, which was only a couple seconds at a time he would groom himself. After we got back from the evet, I put him in the kennel, when I woke up a few hours after putting him in their he was soaked from grooming.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:20 PM
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One of the key symptoms of bloat is non productive vomiting, they can't vomit. So I sure wouldn't try to induce vomiting in a dog I suspected of bloating. Beyond that, food usually passes out of the stomach within 2 hours, so there's no real point in trying to induce vomiting after that time period.

I keep Gas-X around, and would give the dog that AS I WAS TRANSPORTING TO THE VET.

I think the absolute ONLY situation I'd ever try to tube a possible bloat case would be if I were literally hours away from a vet. The potential for damage when someone who isn't trained to do this is so darned high..it would be all too easy for them to perforate something. And if the dog has already torsioned, you won't be able to pass a tube.



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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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One of the key symptoms of bloat is non productive vomiting, they can't vomit. So I sure wouldn't try to induce vomiting in a dog I suspected of bloating. Beyond that, food usually passes out of the stomach within 2 hours, so there's no real point in trying to induce vomiting after that time period.

I keep Gas-X around, and would give the dog that AS I WAS TRANSPORTING TO THE VET.

I think the absolute ONLY situation I'd ever try to tube a possible bloat case would be if I were literally hours away from a vet. The potential for damage when someone who isn't trained to do this is so darned high..it would be all too easy for them to perforate something. And if the dog has already torsioned, you won't be able to pass a tube.
I wanted her to vomit b/c yesterday afternoon 3 toys were shredded. And she had just ate about 45 minutes before hand and was gagging and gagging.
I agree on the tubing 100% and I doubt my vet would of suggested it if he hadn't seen me do it loads of times on cattle to pump stomachs, ect. Regardless I wouldn't want to do it to my own dog unless there was no choice.
Emergency vet is a hour and 15 minutes for us, and it was heavy snow storms lastnight, so I think it was just preparing me for what to load in the car. Regardless she's doing fine and here next to me.

I just am curious as to what other's have been told to give in a situation of indigestion or possibly bloat onset to slow things down
And in regards to agility


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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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[quote=Kpablo;600525]GasX is handy. Louie's vet has given us two pills to give him when he has really bad gas, it's Fatomide, and something else, I'm out of the other pills and don't have the bottle, I need to go get some more.
quote]

Do you give GasX when he seems to have indigestion or your concerned? How much do you give him?
Been reading articles all day and the dosage amounts vary greatly. (I'll call the vet tomorrow but after calling him all hours of the night lastnight, I'm gonna leave him alone today)


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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:36 PM
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I haven't needed to give it to him yet, I have given the meds the vet gave to me, which help a lot. I do keep it handy just in case I run out (like now) of the meds. I don't know how much to give either, I'll ask my vet tomorrow when I'm their getting Scooby expressed (gross) and picking up more meds for Louie.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:39 PM
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Acute Gastric Dilation! - excessive salivation and drooling, restless, attempts to vomit and defecate, abdominal pain and distension.
Can be caused by overeating, eating fermented foods, drinking excessively after eating and vigorous exercise after a meal.
If the dog can belch or vomit, it is not a twist 'yet'.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:44 PM
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 10:05 PM
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Glad to hear Atlantis is ok. That is scarey stuff.
I keep Gas-x on hand. Vegas tends to have a very sensitive stomach. I have on occasion given him one gas-x pill, when he is not quite right. It def. helps him get through. I know him inside and out and can tell when he needs it, if he looks uncomfortable, can't sleep, lays in weird positions, sometimes pants, his gums sometime turn really really red. A gas-x has helped us both get through may a night when he's not feeling "normal". In twenty minutes after the pill he lets out some awful gas (worse than normal) and he's good as new, works everytime. I have had him to the vet and short of exploratory surgery they have checked him and found no problem.
I also keep Kaopectate on hand, haven't used that yet. My dogs are free fed so they rarely consume large amounts of food, they pick through-out the day. Water is monitored and restricted after play or exercise.
The girls seem to have iron gut and nothing bothers them. It's the sensitive red boy......
Hopefully Atlantis won't make a habit out of making you worry....


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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 10:16 PM
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Wow! that is a scare. I had one doberman that bloated. She was very restless and her symptoms were--trying to throw up and not being able to. her gums were very pale.
to this day I wonder what triggered it, but I guess I will never know.
Having Gas-X on hand, that`s a good suggestion. Would love to know what all your vets will suggest.
Glad all is well.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Wow! that is a scare. I had one doberman that bloated. She was very restless and her symptoms were--trying to throw up and not being able to. her gums were very pale.
to this day I wonder what triggered it, but I guess I will never know.
Having Gas-X on hand, that`s a good suggestion. Would love to know what all your vets will suggest.
Glad all is well.
Any advice to this Charmaine "we run agility daily, after a couple runs she goes and drinks all the water I'll allow. And of course is getting loads of treats along the way for her reward. The fast movement, jumping, food and water, could this be a concern or a cause for a dog to bloat?" I dunno if you've heard anything from other people. But it's a thought that crossed my mind after reading all the articles today in regards to possible bloat causes


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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 10:27 PM
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The Purdue Bloat Study looked into whether exercise before or after eating was relevant to bloat-as I remember, they found there was no increase in the risk factor.



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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 11:03 PM
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Any advice to this Charmaine "we run agility daily, after a couple runs she goes and drinks all the water I'll allow. And of course is getting loads of treats along the way for her reward. The fast movement, jumping, food and water, could this be a concern or a cause for a dog to bloat?" I dunno if you've heard anything from other people. But it's a thought that crossed my mind after reading all the articles today in regards to possible bloat causes
A lot of handlers let their dogs drink all they want and there have never been any issues.
Tamora drinks very little--I think its because she is on Nature`s Variety Raw, which has a lot of moisture.
If we have a practice or a trial to go to. I give her only 1/4 to 1/3 of her a.m. feeding. I don`t like to run on a full stomach and I imagine she would feel better also.
At trials I have seen handlers offer their dogs water right after they run with no bad effects. It isn`t even discussed which makes me think bloat is not really an issue for dogs that are running.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 11:54 PM
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I wanted her to vomit b/c yesterday afternoon 3 toys were shredded. And she had just ate about 45 minutes before hand and was gagging and gagging.
I agree on the tubing 100% and I doubt my vet would of suggested it if he hadn't seen me do it loads of times on cattle to pump stomachs, ect. Regardless I wouldn't want to do it to my own dog unless there was no choice.
Emergency vet is a hour and 15 minutes for us, and it was heavy snow storms lastnight, so I think it was just preparing me for what to load in the car. Regardless she's doing fine and here next to me.

I just am curious as to what other's have been told to give in a situation of indigestion or possibly bloat onset to slow things down
And in regards to agility
I have been told to give the dobie liquid divol and than keep walking the dog. I do obedience and I don't feed my dogs 1 hr before training and 1 hr after training. Lots of treats during training sessions. I also wait with the waterconsumtion for at least an hour....On really hot days I just give a bit of water but I don't want to give to much.




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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 05:38 AM
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Where we train for SchH the general rule is NEVER to give them water, no matter how hot they are, until they're done panting and calmed for about an hour. I will say a small amount is placed in the bowl to wet the tongue, but that amount is neglible. While I have never seen any studies to support this theory it is believed by trainers and handles in this particular sport, at this particular club (and 2 others I have visited, though I'm not sure if it is widely accepted) that water into a hot body that is trying cool itself is a BIG no no, and encourages the stomach to turn.

That said, I have been told by a few breeders and vets that after exercise water should be held for an hour to prevent bloat. Again, I have not seen the studies that support this, but seems to be a general consensus from the people around me.

So that's what I do. I don't offer food or water for an hour after exercise, or large amounts of water after eating. My dogs seem to be OK with it, they don't seem miserable for not having a drink, and actually don't even go to the waterbowl until they are completely cooled.

That's just my .02, take it for what it's worth.

I have no experience with the actual bloat without a vet and equipment nearby so I couldn't tell you what to do. If it were me I'd just head to the vets, but different people are comfortable with different things.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 07:52 AM
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Wanted to add that in agility trials dogs run a course in about 20 something to 50 something seconds, so drinking really isn`t much of an issue. None of them are panting hard, if at all. I know Tamora doesn`t.
At classes you take turns, so even than the dogs hardly break a sweat (pant)
Private lesson can be more running and quicker reps--for that I would watch the water intake but not withhold--kind of like riding a horse rule, some sips but not a whole lot until cooled down.
Treats I still give depending on the behavior I am trying to inforce. The amount is very small--Tamora doesn`t need that much in the line of treats any more, just sporadic suprises.
Ali----
A little off the subject. We need to go back to the drawing board after this Sat. ( I signed up for only one day--first USDAA trial--quite interesting compared to AKC trials) Tamora baled (leaped off the A-Frame--no yellow contacts for her Sat.)
Got to love it--you think you are on a roll than something breaks. She liked the extended runs, but seemed confused about the obstacles being so far apart at times--I think she thought I was throwing out a trick question.
Her down on the table took some talking to. When she did go down, she layed in her beautiful sphinx style and surveyed the crowd in a very majestic manner. At first I wondered if she was even paying attention, but when I gave her the release word she popped off the table ready to go to the next obstacle. She came with that attitude implying that she could do more than one thing at a time.--watch/work the crowd and listen--she has to be a guard dog as well.
We were the only doberman team there. She looked beautiful but we were off thats for sure. I did learn somethings, but lets say it wasn`t as much fun as some of our other trials.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
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Wanted to add that in agility trials dogs run a course in about 20 something to 50 something seconds, so drinking really isn`t much of an issue. None of them are panting hard, if at all. I know Tamora doesn`t.
At classes you take turns, so even than the dogs hardly break a sweat (pant)
Private lesson can be more running and quicker reps--for that I would watch the water intake but not withhold--kind of like riding a horse rule, some sips but not a whole lot until cooled down.
Treats I still give depending on the behavior I am trying to inforce. The amount is very small--Tamora doesn`t need that much in the line of treats any more, just sporadic suprises.
Ali----
A little off the subject. We need to go back to the drawing board after this Sat. ( I signed up for only one day--first USDAA trial--quite interesting compared to AKC trials) Tamora baled (leaped off the A-Frame--no yellow contacts for her Sat.)
Got to love it--you think you are on a roll than something breaks. She liked the extended runs, but seemed confused about the obstacles being so far apart at times--I think she thought I was throwing out a trick question.
Her down on the table took some talking to. When she did go down, she layed in her beautiful sphinx style and surveyed the crowd in a very majestic manner. At first I wondered if she was even paying attention, but when I gave her the release word she popped off the table ready to go to the next obstacle. She came with that attitude implying that she could do more than one thing at a time.--watch/work the crowd and listen--she has to be a guard dog as well.
We were the only doberman team there. She looked beautiful but we were off thats for sure. I did learn somethings, but lets say it wasn`t as much fun as some of our other trials.
Ali....scary incident. I do keep GasX on hand with my doggy medical kit. Have not had to use it (knocking on wood). I let my dogs drink after a run, but not a gallon of water. I think being a horse person, we learned walk them a lap, let them drink 6 sips or so, walk a lap, more water. I have to tell 2 of my dogs to stop drinking even at home. They just lap and lap and I think they forget their thirst is quenched! If I distract a minute, they remember they aren't thirsty anymore.

Charmaine.....have you played "snookers" yet? I've only done it in practice and it is FUN. Keep posting about your forays into the other agility venues. Cheers and I want to know how it goes. I am spending wintertime training her to have a command for heel position on the right prior to weaves, to get her to collect and focus before weaves. She automatically gets ready on the left, but 50% of the time blasts by 1/2 the weaves on a run if they are on the right and I have to restart.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 08:58 AM
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Hugs to Atlantis ! I'm getting some gas X today. This is why I love this forum !

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=ellenm;600725]Ali....scary incident. I do keep GasX on hand with my doggy medical kit. Have not had to use it (knocking on wood). I let my dogs drink after a run, but not a gallon of water. I think being a horse person, we learned walk them a lap, let them drink 6 sips or so, walk a lap, more water. I have to tell 2 of my dogs to stop drinking even at home. They just lap and lap and I think they forget their thirst is quenched! If I distract a minute, they remember they aren't thirsty anymore.quote]

Yes horse riding/watering is the same process I've always followed with the dogs. At practice with other dogs she doesn't get hot, none of them do. But when we go and run by ourselves, I get hot and so does she. We do alot more and I allow her to drink a small amount. The thought of bloat never crossed my mind but when I started reading all these articles saying exercise when eating and any amount of water could cause bloat. I'm thinking I'm giving bait/treats tiny the size of peas, but none the less I'm giving them. And she's drinking water to cool down, we usually take a 5 minute break when she gets a drink. Just a thought that ran thru my mind, and figured I'd pick at others who run agility with their dogs.


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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=Ninabug;600692]Where we train for SchH the general rule is NEVER to give them water, no matter how hot they are, until they're done panting and calmed for about an hour. I will say a small amount is placed in the bowl to wet the tongue, but that amount is neglible. While I have never seen any studies to support this theory it is believed by trainers and handles in this particular sport, at this particular club (and 2 others I have visited, though I'm not sure if it is widely accepted) that water into a hot body that is trying cool itself is a BIG no no, and encourages the stomach to turn.

That said, I have been told by a few breeders and vets that after exercise water should be held for an hour to prevent bloat. Again, I have not seen the studies that support this, but seems to be a general consensus from the people around me.quote]
I've never heard that from the club I train w/, if it's hot they always say to go cool your dog down. The dogs of course spend more time waiting then working b/c of all the people. So we sit in the shade, have a small amount of water. This time of year we jump in the van and turn the heat up!
As far as after exercise my dogs have free range to their water, whatever they want, if I think someone is being excessive I'll stop them. After the treadmill I crate them just to let them cool down in peace. I add water to their food so they have water when they eat, not alot of water but it's water. But we hike daily and they drink along the way from cattle waterers.
Who knows what's right or wrong. I think that's the reason I felt the need to ask, as each study, each article seems to be the opposite as the last one I read about bloat. I think feeding raw is one possible answer, probiotic supplements (maybe). Just dunno...


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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 09:53 AM
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Just curious...would Mylicon drops work? Like for human babies? Just curious as it might be gentler on the dog...I dunno, good thread as I am also an over-worried dobie mom too.

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 10:23 AM
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I just wanted to say I'm so glad Atlantis is okay. My stomach did a flip-flop when I saw the subject of your post! Give her a hug from Fi & I.



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I keep Gas-X on hand and I made a bloat kit a couple of years ago in case I am stuck (we do get snowbound occasionally). I keep the instructions with it. Got it from that Great Dane site that has all the useful info about raw feeding and nutrition.

I also do not give much water after agility training - actually none until we get home. At trials, they don't seem to get that thirsty and I only use a tiny bowl so I can limit them. Again, they won't get tired and panting from a single run or from training either unless you are working on a very hot day and they are just panting anyway.


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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenm View Post
Charmaine.....have you played "snookers" yet? I've only done it in practice and it is FUN. Keep posting about your forays into the other agility venues. Cheers and I want to know how it goes. I am spending wintertime training her to have a command for heel position on the right prior to weaves, to get her to collect and focus before weaves. She automatically gets ready on the left, but 50% of the time blasts by 1/2 the weaves on a run if they are on the right and I have to restart.
Ellen, I did do snookers and gamblers. I think snookers (and we got snookered for sure) is the one the you do a red jump than an obstacle, than a red jump, than an obstacle, than another red obstacle and another obstacle, than the close sequence.
Well they have some a-b obstcles that have to be done toegeather which I knew you had to do for the close, but I did not know you had to do it from the red jump as a combo. (if you picked the a obstacle, you had to take the b one to count as one obstacle.
another problem is that you don`t get whistled until you go and take another obstacle and game is over. I didn`t get that part--judge was very nice and explained it to me, better than in the briefing. I don`t know if I really like it all that much--maybe because we got snookered. Tamora did not understsand at all because she took everything I had asked for. Than we got whistled--game over-leave the course. Shoot we were just warming up.

Last edited by alwayshadpets; 01-04-2010 at 10:47 AM. Reason: sp
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