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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Vets and Lepto vaccine

Hi! I am going to be bringing home my first Doberman in about a month and I have been trying to settle on a vet but am really struggling. I plan on following Dr. Dodd's vaccine protocol and avoiding Lepto as all the research on it makes it seem too risky; however, I am noticing most of the vets I look at list the vaccine as one of their core vaccinations, even the holistic vets. I live in Massachusetts. Is anyone else from here who can speak to the necessity of the Lepto vaccine in this area? I saw a few articles about us dealing with Lepto outbreaks a couple years ago and I plan on being very active outdoor with my dog so I don't want to put him at risk by not vaccinating but I'm also not wanting to risk the side effects of doing the vaccination.
If anyone is from around here with advice or a vet recommendation, I would really appreciate it.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 01:27 PM
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Welcome IR to DT . Here is a copy and paste from the AKC on this subject , as it says - Your dog can get it several ways - I will just let you read it and I think it may help in your decision , also the VCA has a nice write up on it too .

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/he...-be-concerned/
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 01:45 PM
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On the east coast especially near or in cities Lepto and been practically epidemic--because it is a zoonotic (can be passed to humans) it is a reportable to disease in all the states I've ever lived in And you can get information on how common lepto is in your area by finding what agency it is required to be reported to. Your vet should be able to tell you who to contact. In Oregon it isn't very common except in a few spot areas and they account for most of the reported cases of lepto. I don't vaccinate for Lepto because of this. It is known to cause more common reactions to the vaccine itself and because it is known to mutate frequently often current vaccines haven't caught up with mutations and what is common in an area may not even be what is being reported on by the time you would be vaccinating for lepto.

I think that I'd choose a vet (either one you'd used before or one that people you know and trust have used) and ask them about the frequency of lepto infections are in your area and make a decision based on that.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 05:22 PM
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please correct me if I do not have the correct information. My understanding is the Lepto has 6-9 strands and the vaccine only is good for 2-4 the vaccine also has serious side effects. I maybe totally wrong on that so please let me know
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 10:15 PM
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I'm not a fan of Dr. Dodds, for a lot of reasons.

The AVMA has a good list of core vaccinations: https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2017...ne-vaccination. They really recommend that each pet owner discuss with their own vet any vaccines outside the core to decide what's best for your pet, based on risk assessment in your area.

I *personally* vaccinate for lepto. I live in an area where it is higher risk, and my dogs do come into contact with enough water sources that for us, it's worth it. The vaccine is effective enough for us, and low risk enough. My veterinarian and I have a long history of a relationship of trust and had a good conversation about the risk/benefit. I have no hesitation about doing the lepto vaccine. I also have a good friend who had her GSD contract lepto a few years ago. He nearly died, racked up vet bills that were over $15K, and had lasting kidney damage. It almost certainly shortened his life. Again, for me...worth it.

Find a vet you trust. Build a good relationship with that vet. Talk through decisions like this. Don't make decisions based on internet recommendations or on the recommendations of people who don't know you and your dog, on blanket recommendations that don't take into account different areas and different risks. Your vet uses good science and experience. Trust them.

That's my two cents.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 01:24 AM
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MeadowCat--I don't think much of Dr Dodds either and the core vaccines as listed by AAHA seem more reasonable to me (but I'm prejudiced probably since I do work for a an AAHA vet clinic.)

Lepto is ugly and if I and my dogs lived in an area that had a high number of Lepto cases I would vaccinate for it despite the draw backs.

Luckily about the only real problems I have to deal with here in Portland and the surrounding area is giardia.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 07:13 AM
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Luckily about the only real problems I have to deal with here in Portland and the surrounding area is giardia.

Aunt Bug - You forgot Big Foot also !
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobegal View Post
please correct me if I do not have the correct information. My understanding is the Lepto has 6-9 strands and the vaccine only is good for 2-4 the vaccine also has serious side effects. I maybe totally wrong on that so please let me know
Dobegal, while it is true that the vaccine isn't 100% effective, it is reasonably effecive. Again, like I said above, I recommend talking to your own veterinarian about your risk in your area. The risk of side effects are very low. Many studies have been done on this. There are article that suggest otherwise, but they are in the types of journals that are very non-science based and often run articles that are full of misinformation and generally not trustworthy (Dogs Naturally is one that comes to mind - that "journal" is one of the least reliable sources of information out there. They have actually suggested that the rabies vaccine is dangerous and can make dogs aggressive).

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MeadowCat--I don't think much of Dr Dodds either and the core vaccines as listed by AAHA seem more reasonable to me (but I'm prejudiced probably since I do work for a an AAHA vet clinic.)

Lepto is ugly and if I and my dogs lived in an area that had a high number of Lepto cases I would vaccinate for it despite the draw backs.

Luckily about the only real problems I have to deal with here in Portland and the surrounding area is giardia.
It's always a risk/benefit analysis. It's no different than making decisions for our own health about what drugs we take Watching my friend's dog fight for his life was the decision maker for me. I would absolutely never put my dogs through that if I could help it and lepto rates around here are high enough that it's worth it for me. We've never had a problem with the vaccine at all. Other people can certainly make the choice that works for them and their dog.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 09:12 AM
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I definitely do Lepto up here in north central PA as there have been quite a few cases and we live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by game lands so lots or wild creatures about.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
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I definitely do Lepto up here in north central PA as there have been quite a few cases and we live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by game lands so lots or wild creatures about.
Dax's approach is what I would use - The reason for my post from the AKC - it explains where dogs are more prone to get it - The OP said she plans on lots of out door activity , Believe she said out in wooded areas , where her dog could pick it up from Coon or other wild life Urine or stopping for a quick drink out of a mud hole where the wild life lives .

With what the OP said , If it was my Dog , then he or she would receive the vaccine . But that's just my opinion .
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 11:56 AM
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Its a personal call. I live in Missouri, which has a seasonal humid sub-tropical climate (i.e., pretty ideal conditions for the bacteria), and we spend a lot of time outdoors, hiking and camping. So, I choose to vaccinate all my dogs for lepto.

Yes, there's some risk with the vaccine but the disease is horrible. I don't think its worth the risk to my dogs to not vaccinate them, or us since its zoonotic.

And I'm also in the camp that doesn't follow Dr. Dodds. I don't find her to be credible at this point in her career.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 03:32 PM
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Luckily about the only real problems I have to deal with here in Portland and the surrounding area is giardia.

Aunt Bug - You forgot Big Foot also !
Dagnabit Kenny,

You're right! I did forget Big Foot (But I remind you--his name is Daryl.)

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post

Luckily about the only real problems I have to deal with here in Portland and the surrounding area is giardia.
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Aunt Bug - You forgot Big Foot also !
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Dagnabit Kenny,

You're right! I did forget Big Foot (But I remind you--his name is Daryl.)

dobebug
No, his name is definitely Bigfoot, and he lives in southeast Texas, not the Pacific northwest.

2014-12-24 DSC_0861 Bigfoot by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

And to keep it dog related, my dogs get vaccinated for Lepto.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
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Dagnabit Kenny,

You're right! I did forget Big Foot (But I remind you--his name is Daryl.)

dobebug
You also forgot about the insidious and all pervasive STJ!

John Lichtwardt
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the replies! I have a lot to think over and appreciate the advice.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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no, his name is definitely bigfoot, and he lives in southeast texas, not the pacific northwest.

2014-12-24 dsc_0861 bigfoot by rosemary elwell, on flickr

and to keep it dog related, my dogs get vaccinated for lepto.
lol!

Abtlh
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 07:19 PM
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You also forgot about the insidious and all pervasive STJ!

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR (aka STJ!)
Not for long STJ--besides--you know you're unforgettable!

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 08:35 PM
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I'm a raw feeder and anti over vaccination but I always get lepto with the puppy shots because I have always taken Coco and now Sugar to the pond where there is lots of wildlife. My vet always asks me because they know how I am but I opt for it and then I titer my dogs for the rest of their lives. It's a nasty disease so I don't want to risk that.



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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 11:19 PM
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I'm in SE Pennsylvania, but live in a suburban area and don't take my dogs out into the wilds. For that reason, I don't vaccinate for Lepto. I probably would if I was going to be out hiking in the wilds and in and around water. We do have wildlife behind us, but they don't come into our fenced area. We mow about 20' beyond our fence. I do a very conservative vaccine schedule and use titers after their 18 month booster - I generally do additional vaccines once every 3-5 years after that as the titers do go low every so often. Rabies is done at 6 months (state law is 4 months and I don't care), booster as required by law after that ..... but I NEVER do a rabies vaccine within 2 months of any other vaccine. Had an issue once and am super anal about rabies vaccines now.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-17-2020, 09:06 AM
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That is almost exactly what I do Mary Jo--has worked for me and my dogs for many years now. One of my very early vets never gave rabies with any of the other vaccines (back when they gave 7 way vaccines--including everything at 4 months) and told me to ignore the kind of information that said to do that--too hard on the dog he said.

So many years later as the protocols changed his information had put me way ahead of the curve.

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-17-2020, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for all the input, because I am in a higher risk area and plan on being in the wilderness and also due to the fact that our house has a lot of wildlife pass thru it, I have decided I will vaccinate for Lepto. And I am reevaluating the vaccine protocol I am following. I actually found Dr. Dodds protocol from a few threads on here who recommended it but I went back and notice some of those threads are from years and years ago. I just want to make sure I do the best I can to not over vaccinate while also keeping my guy protected so I'll do some updated reading and speak with the vet I've chosen.
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