CBD Doberman Seizures - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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**UPDATE**

Took Cooper to the vet today for bloodwork. It will be a few days for results on his Thyroid levels.

Unfortunately, today around 00:20 midnight he had another seizure, this time less violent looking but very long. This one was around 4 1/2 - 5 minutes long.

Currently he just settled down from pacing around the house and stumbling for about an hour. Very confused and after 15min of pacing I decided to whistle a tune he knows and he stopped dead in his tracks, looked at me with his ears back, and walked over to me. He sniffed me and immediately started to jump on me licking me and showing affection. This was the worst seizure to date.

We started him on “ElleVet” CBD tonight as its a last resort while we still fight hard to figure out whats wrong.

The seizures were definitely delayed though, exactly a month.

Another note, the past few days we noticed he was dripping a bit of blood from his penis. Not sure if its related, but it might be given that the seizure came on a few days later.

Kidneys? Any input is appreciated.


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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 06:34 AM
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D Gang - If he is dripping Blood - Then you Need to catch a urine Sample and get it to the VET as soon as possible ! You want to catch first thing in the morning and let him get started before you catch it , that is because there can be some bacteria on him . The Blood could be from a UTI - You need a full urine work up , Like a day ago .

Now is in only my opinion here and take for what its worth - But you need to get them seizures under control - He needs to be on some kind of medicine to control them - I think you need to ditch that CBD stuff - I'm sorry here - to me = that stuff is just wish full thinking - The more your dog has seizures , the harder they are to control and takes more meds to do it . The seizures effect the brain and as our Vet told us , once they start having them - they will get more and more frequent - For lack of better wording - it's a like a marker in there brain , that is why I thing you need to get on top of this sooner than later

One last thing , If you have a animal hospital in your area - I would concerned getting him in to see a internal Medicine Vet and let them do a full work up on him .

Wishing you the very best luck

Doc
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DobieGang View Post
**UPDATE**

Took Cooper to the vet today for bloodwork. It will be a few days for results on his Thyroid levels.

Unfortunately, today around 00:20 midnight he had another seizure, this time less violent looking but very long. This one was around 4 1/2 - 5 minutes long.

Currently he just settled down from pacing around the house and stumbling for about an hour. Very confused and after 15min of pacing I decided to whistle a tune he knows and he stopped dead in his tracks, looked at me with his ears back, and walked over to me. He sniffed me and immediately started to jump on me licking me and showing affection. This was the worst seizure to date.

We started him on “ElleVet” CBD tonight as its a last resort while we still fight hard to figure out whats wrong.

The seizures were definitely delayed though, exactly a month.

Another note, the past few days we noticed he was dripping a bit of blood from his penis. Not sure if its related, but it might be given that the seizure came on a few days later.

Kidneys? Any input is appreciated.


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I went back and was re-reading this thread from the beginning, and I realized that I totally missed that you were feeding Acana. I don't want to get TOO much into food debates, but Acana is one of the foods most implicated in nutritional DCM. You may want to have a conversation with your veterinarian about whether to continue feeding it. Champion Pet Foods (the parent company) is one of the companies that has had a lot of dogs diagnosed with DCM on their food, and Acana in particular is one of the foods that has had a lot of cases of it.

If you are using CBD, is that with the guidance of your veterinarian? I ask because it can affect how the prescription drugs are working.

I'm glad there was a long break in the seizures. I'm hoping you and your vet can figure out a medication protocol to get a much longer duration of seizure-free days.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 04:41 PM
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About the blood dripping from his penis. There are a number of things that can causer this. One of the most common is acute prostatitis--more common in intact dogs than in neutered dogs.

Bladder infections and the presence of crystals without an infection can also cause this sort of blood dripping.

And one of my intact males had just plain a thin bladder lining and he sometimes had bouts of hematuria (bleeding in the bladder) not caused by a prostate problem at all but cystitis secondary to crystals forming from to alkaline urine.

His treatment and control was right out of human male treatment for a similar problem. Put him on glucosamine (no chondritin) and Hills CD (to make his urine more acidic. Glucosamine provided the raw material for a thicker bladder lining and the CD regulated the pH of the urine.

Prostatitis, for the record is usually pretty painful and you get more symptoms than just the blood dripping from his penis. But get that checked out and soon.

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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-15-2020, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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**Update**

His bloodwork came back with his thyroid levels still showing a bit low so the dosage is up from .06 to .08.

CBD has been given an hour before he goes to bed. (Has been recommended by the neurologists to try prior to anti-convulsants)

We switched his food after the first seizure and they are both on “Dr. Tim’s Kinesis - All life stages”

We’ve also ran urinalysis tests when this first happened with his levels showing all okay. (Protein slightly high but he was on Acana)

Stumped on where to go next.



So far......



-First two seizures were ten days apart.

-Third seizure thirty days apart from the last one with signs of blood from his penis.

-Seizures are always around midnight 00:00.


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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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**UPDATE**

Okay, interesting update...

Cooper has gone about 8 weeks seizure free. He is currently on a .08 dosage of levothyroxine and he takes some cbd at night before bed. Last night though he had a seizure.

I know this wasn’t the news we were hoping for but to go from seizures much closely together to much further apart means we’re doing something right.

Also, this seizure happened around 23:00 instead of midnight. (While sleeping) although the time changed an hour earlier, its seems to still be while sleeping.

Lastly, the seizure only lasted about a minute. Wow was it such a relief! It also was not as aggressive although he did urinate himself again :/. When he came out of it though, he was much better with the pacing and thirst, etc. It was not a few hour long thing getting his bearings. It was about 30min of very light pacing, thirst, and curiosity. After that, straight to sleep.

I think we’re on to something, but when we do bloodwork again to check his levels we’ll update again.

Thanks everyone, be well.
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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-07-2020, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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CBD Doberman Seizures

**UPDATE**

Another seizure tonight about ten minutes ago. We noticed the past two seizures accompanied by lots of humping and excitement prior to going to bed....is that related? Prostate?? This was also accompanied with red blood spotting from his penis.

Thoughts??
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-07-2020, 10:50 PM
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He seems a little young to be having prostate troubles due to its enlargement (which can happen as they get older) or the infection which might go along with that. Is he neutered? I'm wondering if perhaps some kind of physical stress or spasming during the seizure could cause a little tear somewhere that could account for the bleeding. There are a lot of blood-rich tissues in that area.

And I gather there are a lot of different things that can trigger a seizure, and also that different areas of brain involvement can cause somewhat different pre-seizure and seizure activity??

But I have no idea what could be going on; I'm not a vet. I would love to hear what your vet says about it.

Keep us posted.
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-08-2020, 04:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks melbrod,

Both of mine are intact males. Vets are clueless and not helpful at all. My fiance and I find out more reading and troubleshooting on our own unfortunately. We do have a scheduled appointment with an internal medicine doctor in a few weeks though. I will update with anything significant.
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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-2020, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
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**Update**

Seizure again tonight. 03:15. Time seems to be changing up now. Happened while sleeping. Lasted a Minute. Disoriented for the past 30min.

Levothyroxine and CBD seem to bot be helping at this point as he had three seizures in about 3 weeks time.

Might consider anticonvulsants but very upset we arent finding the root cause and treating the end result.

As an aircraft technician, we dont just repair an error message by deleting it or changing the screen, we find out whats the root cause to the problem and change components as required.

I feel anticonvulsants may “help” this situation but it seems it may be a bandaid fix for another underlying issue.
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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-2020, 07:41 AM
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DG, have you made video of Cooper's sleeping seizures for the doctors to view?

Just my experience - our Doberboy, Spock sleeps on foot of my bed with us since I retired from work and home all the time. Spock has very active dreams when sleeping with lots of leg movements, to the point of kicking me repeatedly with back legs while "running" in sleep. He'll also sleep bark, muffled, as if chasing after some squirrel in his dreams... If you wake him up from such a deep sleep, he acts disorientated, with droopy eyes and not fully aware of surroundings.

Last week, he scared us by jumping (falling?) off end of bed onto floor, feet first in very early morning. (Not because of a sound, because I checked Nest cameras sound tracks) We just heard scrambling of his nails on tile floor. I went to wake him and he couldn't get up of floor, still not quite aware of what happened. After I did help him to stand, he urinated on floor, still with "deer in headlight" look on face. I think he was shocked at what happened, as he never pees in house unless close thunderbolt strikes outside. Spock then recovered immediately as I gave him piece of kibble, but I thought he had experienced some type of seizure, like Cooper.

When Spock is sleeping, having active night dreams, I'll calm him down by massaging his legs and hip, which works well, without waking him up. Next time he's having such a dream I'll video it and post a link for you here so you can compare it to Cooper's nighttime seizures. There have been several seizure threads on DT in past where videos were posted of actual seizures underway, which were very disturbing to me, or any Doberman owner.

Hope you find a fix for Cooper's issues.


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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-14-2020, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanms spock these are seizures. My other one Hudson has dreams that you speak of and is even vocal We have filmed it to show the vet the first time it happened and it was confirmed.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DobieGang View Post
Thanks spock these are seizures. My other one Hudson has dreams that you speak of and is even vocal We have filmed it to show the vet the first time it happened and it was confirmed.

Spock had a 2nd incident yesterday while we were sleeping on bed in early evening. Heard a bang against nightstand or dresser cabinet. When I got up
Spock was, again, feet down on floor struggling to get up and had peed on tile. I helped him up and he went outside normally to potty, although acting scared and confused again. Back to normal immediately after getting up.

This morning, did research in DT thread archives and read this long and extensive seizure thread about a dog Hoss, owned by Incredibledobes, from 11.2009. It's a very informative thread about seizures, diagnoses, treatments and outcomes, which should be of particular interest to you:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...-any-info.html

Maybe Spock's two incidents could be some form of "night terrors" that is discussed occasionally on DT. He is never aggressive during incidents, just scared and confused, unlike some of the seizures discussed in the 2009 seizure thread. He also is back to his normal self immediately.

A post by Hoss's owner late in 2009 thread, after treatment started, really summed up the whole situation of having a young & active IPO trained dog quickly degrade into "just a zombie, basically" (her words)

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...tml#post563166


Sadly, Hoss's demise came only 4 mo. later in 2.2010:
https://www.dobermantalk.com/rainbow...s-da-boss.html


Having two 10+ y/o Dobes myself, now I frequently ponder that question of would it be best for the the dog, and humans, to sustain them a condition like that. Thankfully, a good quality of life sticky thread is in DT Doberman Health forum to help owners decide.

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...-decision.html
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Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!

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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-19-2020, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for info, noticed in one thread another doberman owner “lexxsmom” had the same issue with her’s having only at night while sleeping. I messaged her to see if I can gain anymore info. A good suggestion by her was to carry valium which IVE ASKED my vet for in the just in case scenarios but I might have to demand it. It only makes sense to have it just in case he has a really bad and prolonged seizure.
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Good evening all,

Another seizure tonight that lasted about a minute and he recovered pretty quickly compared to other nights. It was around 23:20 tonight. (About 3 weeks since the last seizure)

FYI: He is on 1mg Levothyroxine as his levels were still low on the .6 and the .8. He is also taking ElleVet CBD prescribed by the neurologist at 21:30 every night before bed.

Bloodwork will be performed again to recheck his levels. I’m assuming it’ll still be low.

Will update.


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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-16-2020, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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CBD Doberman Seizures

Good evening all,

Bloodwork came back today. Cooper is in the green with his thyroid levels but still on the low side. The vet and internal medicine doc discussed and recommended not to go higher than 1mg levothyroxine as thats already a strong dosage.

Tonight he just had a seizure about 30min ago (01:47). Lasted about 1min +/- 15sec.

Recovered fairly well but as of right now still pacing and balance is still off. He tried to lay down 3x now but can’t get comfortable to sleep. I’m sure hes tired and will rest his eyes soon.

My fiance and I are contemplating anticonvulsants but we cant help to think since he was diagnosed with “idiopathic epilepsy”, that its a bandaid fix to some other underlying issue. We also dont know if anticonvulsants will help at all while asleep.

We want whats best for our boy. Any suggestions would be helpful.

**second guessing everything, we also might take him for an ultrasound just to positively rule anything abnormal out. We did the MRI and blood panels with nothing conclusive but we want to be 1000% sure. For some reason I keep thinking kidneys because of the random blood spotting and seizures but what do I know I’m not a vet.**

Pic of the poor guy trying to sleep:




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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-17-2020, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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**UPDATE**

Bad news, seizures happened again last night all lasting about a minute.

10:30pm
02:30am
07:55am

Now it’s getting to the point where it’s creeping into the daytime. He also was not sleeping in the am he was up trying to sleep but went into the seizure.

Anticonvulsants seem to be the next option.

I cant stand any vets, internal medicine vets, and neurologists. I feel everything they’ve done/suggested has been in vain and theres an underlying issue here. Seems to be easier to diagnose your family member with idiopathic epilepsy. (Short for we dont know wtf is wrong)

First it was always while asleep, so we figured yea maybe theres something to that. Now, while he was up another one. I can’t stand bandaid solutions.

If your car was leaking oil but you could never pin point where the leak was from, would you accept the answer...”your car has idiopathic oil leakage. From now on we will have to start topping your car off will oil all the time.”


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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-17-2020, 08:07 AM
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I'm really sorry that this is happening and to hear your frustration. It's hard to see your dog go through this.

Unfortunately, sometimes the answer is that this does just happen and there isn't an underlying "cause" that can be identified. I've known several friends (too many) that have dogs with epilepsy (or seizures). All of them have worked with specialists, and none have had dogs where a cause was identified. Like in people, this is a complex neurological disease and we don't yet know why it happens all the time. It *IS* frustrating, but that doesn't mean the vets are doing a bad job.

(Since I suffer from a neurological disease myself, with no known cause and a real lack of treatments...believe me, I really, really understand this frustration!)

The important thing is to continue forward with the best course of treatment for your dog, whatever that may be.


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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-17-2020, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Meadowcat,

**Update**

2:45 pm another seizure. 4 within 24hrs.

Spoke to the neurologist and they sent over the prescription for phenobarbital (64.8mg 2x every 12 hrs) that I just picked up and gave him at 4pm.

I hope and pray this treatment helps him as the side effects arent the best. Ive heard success from others but I’m doubtful until I see it.

All the best,

DG


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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-17-2020, 03:20 PM
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I had a cocker spaniel for 13 years and he had seizures. He was on anti convulsants for years and lived a good long life. There was no known cause, he was just plain epileptic. I do have to agree with ECIN, the longer you wait, the harder it will be to control the seizures. It seems as if you have explored the options, no brain tumor, thyroid, kidney and liver function check out. If it were me, I would stop the seizures with medication and keep an eye out for any side effects.
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post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-17-2020, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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We’re on it thanks for the reassurance.


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post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-18-2020, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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**Update**

Sorry I was not able to update but yesterday around 9 he had another. At that point we drove him straight to Red Bank Veterinary Hospital in NJ. (40min from Jersey City)

He was taken in and stayed the night and monitored with IV hookups. He didnt have a seizure lst night but they want to keep him the rest of today and tonight into saturday morning/afternoon before releasing him.

We opted to take him in because since the last seizures yesterday morning hes been restless ever since. Constant pacing, frequent urination, panting, confusion, etc. we wanted to make sure he is well hydrated and already at the hospital to start treating the cluster if it got any worse.

Will update on his arrival.


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post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-18-2020, 04:57 PM
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I'll be thinking of you guys—keep in touch. It's so hard sitting and waiting for news when they're in the hospital, but at least you know he's getting careful treatment.
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post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-18-2020, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks melbrod,

**Update**

Had the “comfort call” twice today. Morning call the hospital stated no seizures throughout the night but still weak and slow to recover. (Dragging feet etc) Tonight had the second call and he has eaten a bit, drank water and okay on his walks. Still no seizures. He will stay another night and I hope by morning his toughness gets him back on track to fight the seizures off on his new medication.

**Side-note**

Ive been trying to contact the breeder we purchased our two boys from to make them aware of whats going on to no avail. This is worrying as they can potentially continue to breed a known issue. They were both purchased from a breeder in PA. I will update with name and location when I dig through my files.

When we first received them we had to deworm as they had worms. I called immediately to let the breeder know all her puppies potentially had worms and the response was “oh, okay.”

Lastly, Cooper used to have a bowed leg/slight knuckling on his left front leg. A local vet explained surgery was required (Secaucus animal hospital, NJ). I called the breeder to make them aware and immediately she offered replacement of the dog.

(I had a very bad attitude toward her as my fiance and I were set on taking care of him as our own the day we left the breeder, and to offer another dog like an item rubbed me the wrong way. I wanted to just make the breeder aware of what was happening.)

With much research we changed his diet to a less protein/ and a bit more calcium diet and within two weeks he was standing straight and strong. (At this point we realized if a vet with a degree and education can falsely recommend surgery even though it was his diet, we will always do our due diligence from that day forward)

Fast forward to now, and the seizures. If I had to guess its probably hereditary. Not sure. Anyway just curious if you folks have any input on what we should be doing to prevent future breeding issues.
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post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-19-2020, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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**Update**

Checked cooper out at 11:30am this morning. Very drugged up but broke the seizure cluster. He did well the two nights he was there and was released early to us.

Currently he is home on his daily dose of levothyroxine and phenobarbital.

While he has been home, a lot of urination and drinking which we suspected and hungry. (He prob didnt eat much at the hospital.)

His rear limbs are dragging but I was told its common when the phenobarbitals treatment is started.

He has been very “out there” all day. Pretty much the same sort of pacing and restlessness he had after his seizures except this time hes very slow and mellow about it.

He ate his meal like normal which was good drank lots of water and urinated a lot.

The only odd thing other than him taking a LONG time to “come back” is that he had two instances where he had the similar “signs” prior to an episode...(Teeth chatter, lips peeling back like a smile, and turning his neck to look at his back) but it didnt go into a seizure. He locked up a bit and then forcefully woke himself and started walking it off then went back to bed. I really hope its the meds are actually keeping the seizures at bay because those signs were definitely seizures any other day.

We will be taking him back in about two weeks for blood work and follow ups to make sure his kidney values and the phenobarbital in the system is okay.

Will advise.

All the best,

Dobiegang
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